Harold's Leg Lift Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I don’t understand this nickname *narrative* 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I don’t understand this nickname Captain Panic was a little known DC comics superhero in the 1980's.....he had the power to create delicious Milkshakes and he used the money from said venture to purchase the rights to awful bullpen pitchers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I don’t understand this nickname There has been nothing about Getz tenure in his 11 months so far that looks anything different than the previous one, except he completely lacks the patience to wait out a move or a plan. I see it in the Cease deal, the roster churning losing young players who could have helped the team this year in favor of guys we ended up releasing anyway, and even the draft seemingly overpaying guys they didn't need to so as compared to the rest of MLB. Maybe that changes over time, but I haven't seen it so far. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 21 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I don’t understand this nickname Less so now, but especially earlier in the year, dude was making moves like he's trying to salvage a single season of MLB: The Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I see the O's going for Fedde instead of trading their better prospects (Holliday, Kjerstad, Basallo, Mayo, etc) for Crochet. Something like Norby, Beavers, and another piece or two feels right. I think Fedde might be able to command a better prospect than either of those guys, given that there are nine teams within 1 game of the WC or better in the NL and seven in AL, plus the Mariners and possibly Rangers in contention for Western division. So at least 18 teams possibly in market.There’s not enough Fedde caliber starting pitchers to go around considering the numbers of inferior ones on those teams. A package of B prospects would be ok, but given the budget value of his deal in a seller’s market, just hope sox really maximize this trade. Probably need to trade Crochet first to do that, so teams can’t use Fedde as a fall back position anymore Edited July 23 by 46DidIt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: I think Fedde might be able to command a better prospect than either of those guys, given that there are nine teams within 1 game of the WC or better in the NL and seven in AL, plus the Mariners and possibly Rangers in contention for Western division. So at least 18 teams possibly in market.There’s not enough Fedde caliber starting pitchers to go around considering the numbers of inferior ones on those teams. A package of B prospects would be ok, but given the budget value of his deal in a seller’s market, just hope sox really maximize this trade. Probably need to trade Crochet first to do that, so teams can’t use Fedde as a fall back position anymore Cross the Mariners off your list. Starting pithing is the least of their worries. If they trade from their prospect wealth, its for bats, and or high leverage relievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: There has been nothing about Getz tenure in his 11 months so far that looks anything different than the previous one, except he completely lacks the patience to wait out a move or a plan. I see it in the Cease deal, the roster churning losing young players who could have helped the team this year in favor of guys we ended up releasing anyway, and even the draft seemingly overpaying guys they didn't need to so as compared to the rest of MLB. Maybe that changes over time, but I haven't seen it so far. He hired Brian Bannister and made multiple outside hires. Signed Erick Fedde who has been one of the best pitchers in baseball. He’s likely to get something for Tommy Pham and Paul Dejong. They already got something for Robbie Grossman. They waited out the market on Dylan Cease and did well on the return. We have no idea if he overpaid on the draft but only the first rounder is influenced much by the GM. Who have they lost on waivers etc that should still be here? I’m sorry but I don’t think it fits at all. 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: He hired Brian Bannister and made multiple outside hires. Signed Erick Fedde who has been one of the best pitchers in baseball. He’s likely to get something for Tommy Pham and Paul Dejong. They already got something for Robbie Grossman. They waited out the market on Dylan Cease and did well on the return. We have no idea if he overpaid on the draft but only the first rounder is influenced much by the GM. Who have they lost on waivers etc that should still be here? I’m sorry but I don’t think it fits at all. That's fine. I know not everyone does. I just don't see the players we already lost, plus the development time already lost for kids in the system for the couple of guys that actually do generate some sort of modest return. it makes sense at a place like SS, where we had no one, but the parade of terrible OFs to block guys like Colas, Fletcher and DeLoach never made sense, especially when Getz himself traded for those last two guys. There is a whole list of relievers out there that Getz release who would have also really helped the Sox, such as a Declan Cronin, or even Bailey Horn who we traded a guy for, and then released in short order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 34 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: He hired Brian Bannister and made multiple outside hires. Signed Erick Fedde who has been one of the best pitchers in baseball. He’s likely to get something for Tommy Pham and Paul Dejong. They already got something for Robbie Grossman. They waited out the market on Dylan Cease and did well on the return. We have no idea if he overpaid on the draft but only the first rounder is influenced much by the GM. Who have they lost on waivers etc that should still be here? I’m sorry but I don’t think it fits at all. I'm in your camp - he has spent a lot of time churning and we can see what he threw out, but at same time we have seen potential wins. Fedde is a huge win and they should get great value for him at the deadline. DeJong and Pham are both going to get value and Grossman got them something. I also think moving Cease when they did worked out well and early returns on Thorpe are positive and we'll see what happens with the rest. But part of the Cease piece is, strategically, I don't think taking the long bet with pitching when you have good offers on the table is a smart move. The risk of injury (regardless of track record) is high, so to me the risk you get 0 vs. 90 cents on the dollar (and even that is debatable) drives me to make the deal vs. the added risk. For example - on Crochet, I would be working every angle to prevent him from making another start. I am so worried when he takes the mound that he'll have a tweak or something pops up. If it does - we go from getting at least 2 top 100 guys (conservatively) to basically being back at square one. Given long-term view of the franchise - that is a risk I'm not willing to take. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Tnetennba said: Cross the Mariners off your list. Starting pithing is the least of their worries. If they trade from their prospect wealth, its for bats, and or high leverage relievers. Kopech and Brebbia for.....whatever they want to give us to be honest.....just call me mr mini-panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 The cease return was stupid because of their demand to focus it on pitching. Absolutely idiotic then and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 51 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said: I'm in your camp - he has spent a lot of time churning and we can see what he threw out, but at same time we have seen potential wins. Fedde is a huge win and they should get great value for him at the deadline. DeJong and Pham are both going to get value and Grossman got them something. I also think moving Cease when they did worked out well and early returns on Thorpe are positive and we'll see what happens with the rest. But part of the Cease piece is, strategically, I don't think taking the long bet with pitching when you have good offers on the table is a smart move. The risk of injury (regardless of track record) is high, so to me the risk you get 0 vs. 90 cents on the dollar (and even that is debatable) drives me to make the deal vs. the added risk. For example - on Crochet, I would be working every angle to prevent him from making another start. I am so worried when he takes the mound that he'll have a tweak or something pops up. If it does - we go from getting at least 2 top 100 guys (conservatively) to basically being back at square one. Given long-term view of the franchise - that is a risk I'm not willing to take. absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, bmags said: The cease return was stupid because of their demand to focus it on pitching. Absolutely idiotic then and now. I disagree. With offense going down, pitching is more valuable than ever. Start with pitching then move to position players. Looks like they have at least one good one in Thorpe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanut33tillman Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 I don’t think we have a clue who Chris Getz is yet as a GM, it’s just too early. However we may begin to have a better feel after we see his returns before next Tuesdays deadline if/when he moves Crochet, Fedde, Robert, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: I disagree. With offense going down, pitching is more valuable than ever. Start with pitching then move to position players. Looks like they have at least one good one in Thorpe. If offense is going down…obviously hitting would be more valuable. Babe Ruth wasn’t less valuable in his era because fewer home runs were hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 12 minutes ago, bmags said: The cease return was stupid because of their demand to focus it on pitching. Absolutely idiotic then and now. Ehhh. Thorpe is a stud, and mgiht already be a more effective overall pitcher than Cease (albeit much less flashy). The supporting pieces are also pretty solid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said: I'm in your camp - he has spent a lot of time churning and we can see what he threw out, but at same time we have seen potential wins. Fedde is a huge win and they should get great value for him at the deadline. DeJong and Pham are both going to get value and Grossman got them something. I also think moving Cease when they did worked out well and early returns on Thorpe are positive and we'll see what happens with the rest. But part of the Cease piece is, strategically, I don't think taking the long bet with pitching when you have good offers on the table is a smart move. The risk of injury (regardless of track record) is high, so to me the risk you get 0 vs. 90 cents on the dollar (and even that is debatable) drives me to make the deal vs. the added risk. For example - on Crochet, I would be working every angle to prevent him from making another start. I am so worried when he takes the mound that he'll have a tweak or something pops up. If it does - we go from getting at least 2 top 100 guys (conservatively) to basically being back at square one. Given long-term view of the franchise - that is a risk I'm not willing to take. I was just going to post this same thing. They are playing with fire. Crochet and Fedde should not start another game until after the deadline. You probably can't get away with sitting Robert, but I'd make him the DH for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peanut33tillman Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I was just going to post this same thing. They are playing with fire. Crochet and Fedde should not start another game until after the deadline. You probably can't get away with sitting Robert, but I'd make him the DH for a week. I agree I’d rather not see Crochet or Fedde make another start before next Tuesday if they are indeed being moved. I’ll be at the game tonight and as much fun as it’ll be watching crochet I’d prefer to sit him. Just not worth the risk a week away from a potential monster return to set the future up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Ehhh. Thorpe is a stud, and mgiht already be a more effective overall pitcher than Cease (albeit much less flashy). The supporting pieces are also pretty solid. It will be a lot more expensive to get hitting. It made no sense to specifically plug anything on an org that was about to win 40 games. He should have been looking for the best package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 8 minutes ago, bmags said: If offense is going down…obviously hitting would be more valuable. Babe Ruth wasn’t less valuable in his era because fewer home runs were hit I disagree. Lean into the strength of having quality pitching to keep the offense down. Obviously, both are needed. However, I like the idea of starting with the pitching then moving to hitting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 1 minute ago, bmags said: It will be a lot more expensive to get hitting. It made no sense to specifically plug anything on an org that was about to win 40 games. He should have been looking for the best package. Pitching is more volatile with injuries so it's more important to stock up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: Pitching is more volatile with injuries so it's more important to stock up on it. all the more reason to not stock up on it first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 2 minutes ago, bmags said: all the more reason to not stock up on it first That's the wrong way to look at it, in my view. If it's more volatile they need more of it so stock it up through out the pipeline. This way when the team is ready to win they have depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 18 minutes ago, bmags said: If offense is going down…obviously hitting would be more valuable. Babe Ruth wasn’t less valuable in his era because fewer home runs were hit The point I would add here - would be if Getz had the mindset that he knows going into this, that JR is NOT going to pony up free agent dollars for pitching or any long term $ to pitching (other than that within the cost controlled window)...than I could at least see the thought process in saying, I need to stack up starting pitching depth first and foremost....I still need positional depth, that is important, but maybe he has a view point that when he needs to, he can get JR to go there a bit as it relates to spending money on positional players. Quite frankly - we know in general the strategy has to be more muted around spending big - but I do think if Getz thought through it from that lens, I'd be happier. I think Hahn viewed everything from - I'm going to get JR to spend like he has never done and than ended up having funds (JR wasn't opposed to giving him money) but JR wasn't just going to let him spend it on whatever he could....than what happened was Hahn was left with funds but told you can't go 4 years on a pitcher or more than x and than instead he said well I got money and he burned that money down by horribly spending it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 33 minutes ago, bmags said: The cease return was stupid because of their demand to focus it on pitching. Absolutely idiotic then and now. I don’t think there was a demand. Thorpe was the best player offered in return. Nobody was willing to trade a position player package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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