ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: That says "desires" .That a big difference from saying he won't pitch without an extension. I'm sure he knows that if he pitches into the post season his health is in jeopardy. He want guaranteed money if his arm falls off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: I'm sure he knows that if he pitches into the post season his health is in jeopardy. He want guaranteed money if his arm falls off. And then his value goes from hundreds of millions of dollars to back in the crapper where it was before this breakout season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Did anyone break the news to Pedro that he will not be able to use Crochet in the playoffs this year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, Whisox05 said: Crochet nuking his trade value and the future of the White Sox all in the same day, dudes a beast 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I'm sure he knows that if he pitches into the post season his health is in jeopardy. He want guaranteed money if his arm falls off. I don't know if it will ever reach that point to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I don't know if it will ever reach that point to know for sure. No, but that's why he wants protection. The number if innings including the playoffs will be crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: PTAC would take the middle road with the plethora of White Sox player injuries since Schneider retired and say nothing is laughable when it comes to one's health/comfort level and generational wealth being threatened....with no choice but to quit? And look how close both Rodon and Giolito were to losing out on hundreds of millions. TA7 was at least 50% a story of injuries from 2022 onwards. Moncada and Jimenez might not see $10 million combined the remainder of their careers. Heck, Burger almost out of baseball and fought back in with the help of his wife despite the White Sox basically cutting him loose. You're trying to quantify the likelihood of injury. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 hour ago, ptatc said: I'm sure he knows that if he pitches into the post season his health is in jeopardy. He want guaranteed money if his arm falls off. Obviously. However, that doesn't give him the latitude to break his contractual obligations to his employer. I have the risk of being hit by a car on my way to work, that doesn't preclude me from my employer's demand that I come back to the office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: No, but that's why he wants protection. The number if innings including the playoffs will be crazy. If he wants protection. If I'm the only one who thinks that if his arm is still feeling good the desire for ring may be enough motivation to contribute IF he is able, then so be it. But as I've said we're a long way from that happening. I never thought he'd be traded any way by the deadline when many were sure it was happening. So it's not like this latest report shocked me like it's shocked so many who trusts the those reports are accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Obviously. However, that doesn't give him the latitude to break his contractual obligations to his employer. I have the risk of being hit by a car on my way to work, that doesn't preclude me from my employer's demand that I come back to the office. His chances after the way they pitched him are much greater than getting hit by a car. While players don't have final say, they will work with his input. Wait until we see what he looks like at the end of the year and we'll know more. What are the contractual obligations of the team to maintain his health? Edited July 26 by ptatc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: If he wants protection. If I'm the only one who thinks that if his arm is still feeling good the desire for ring may be enough motivation to contribute IF he is able, then so be it. But as I've said we're a long way from that happening. I never thought he'd be traded any way by the deadline when many were sure it was happening. So it's not like this latest report shocked me like it's shocked so many who trusts the those reports are accurate. But why else would he demand an extention only for the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Obviously. However, that doesn't give him the latitude to break his contractual obligations to his employer. I have the risk of being hit by a car on my way to work, that doesn't preclude me from my employer's demand that I come back to the office. There are no contractual obligations to pitch beyond reasonable health limits placed on you by physicians which he could easily obtain. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: There are no contractual obligations to pitch beyond reasonable health limits placed on you by physicians which he could easily obtain. The team employs the physicians, not the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: There are no contractual obligations to pitch beyond reasonable health limits placed on you by physicians which he could easily obtain. Would make for an interesting lawsuit. Since it sounds like Crochet is pushing to keep starting, he would be hurting his own case. The extention of the season and workload is the wildcard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: His chances after the way they pitched him are much greater than getting hit by a car. While players don't have final say, they will work with his input. Wait until we see what he looks like at the end of the year and we'll know more. What are the contractual obligations of the team to maintain his health? We're working under the assumption that Crochet will refuse to pitch without a contract extension. If traded, he has input, but not the final say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Just now, TaylorStSox said: The team employs the physicians, not the player. He is allowed to go out and get his own second opinions. Also, I'm sure the current medical staff is advising against what they are doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Just now, TaylorStSox said: We're working under the assumption that Crochet will refuse to pitch without a contract extension. If traded, he has input, but not the final say. Correct. But he can always say his arm is too fatigued and that is impossible to refute. Even without an actual injury he can justify not pitching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 3 hours ago, fathom said: They need a closer for the postseason though. They had Honeywell close today! A former first rounder we didn't claim??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 16 minutes ago, ptatc said: But why else would he demand an extention only for the playoffs? Ultimate leverage...well, sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: A former first rounder we didn't claim??? We had him last year lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: Correct. But he can always say his arm is too fatigued and that is impossible to refute. Even without an actual injury he can justify not pitching And MLB can respond by blackballing him. We've already seen MLB collude on Boras clients and Bauer over the last couple years. I wouldn't be surprised if the owners used Crochet as an example. He's playing a dangerous game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I think if you're Garrett and his family/g-f/fiance, etc., you absolutely HAVE to protect yourself first and foremost. With Lloyd's of London insure him against catastrophic injury if he goes over 150 innings this year? At what cost? Because he's arguably in $150-200 million contract territory right now....or less than $10 million, possibly. Hard to argue there are many in-between outcomes here at play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: We had him last year lol After the Padres, I remember now. Wasn't around long at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: And MLB can respond by blackballing him. We've already seen MLB collude on Boras clients and Bauer over the last couple years. I wouldn't be surprised if the owners used Crochet as an example. He's playing a dangerous game. And he can respond with all the arguments in this thread that no pitcher in MLB history with a previous Tommy John and his limited career innings count should ever reasonably be expected to surpass 150-160 innings.... Remember at the beginning of the year when most SoxTalk posters were targeting somewhere around 70-80 IP. Well, he's going to end up nearly doubling that. Totally unprecedented in the recent history of the sport. And Rodon's quite lucky they didn't absolutely destroy him back in the second half of 2021. Jimmy Cordero would be another guy that was absolutely used and abused...to you have an obligation to pitch yourself into career oblivion when you're not feeling well (ouchy) and still push the limits for the "good of the team"? Well, what if the interests of the team and individual are not in alignment at all? If that was your kid, you'd let them push even higher, to 170+ innings? 180? Where does it become ABUSIVE to push him THAT hard? When nobody has ever beaten those odds looking at his university, MiLB and majors workload over the span of roughly 5-6 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: After the Padres, I remember now. Wasn't around long at all. August 5, 2023: Selected off waivers by the Chicago White Sox from the San Diego Padres. He put up an 11.12 ERA in 5.2 innings for the Sox last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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