ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: That doesn't make it make any more sense. He likely wouldnt have been able to pitch in the postseason anyway. Every GM out there knew what we all knew that Crochet's chances of pitching in the post season 99% not happening. Getting an extension wouldn't improve the health of his arm. There's something off about this whole thing. It's not a given that he couldn't be in the post season. The option of going to the bullpen for the second half to save him for the post season is a reasonable possibility. However he has said he doesn't want to do that. Maybe the contract demands is his way of ensuring he won't get traded to a team that wants him in the pen for the second half of the season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ptatc said: It's not a given that he couldn't be in the post season. The option of going to the bullpen for the second half to save him for the post season is a reasonable possibility. However he has said he doesn't want to do that. Maybe the contract demands is his way of ensuring he won't get traded to a team that wants him in the pen for the second half of the season. This. Or keep him on a starter’s schedule and let him go an inning or 2 and then have someone else pitch a bulk of the game. Would also be easier to manage in September when rosters expand. The Dodgers could probably do that with all of their pitching options. Edited July 26 by Bob Sacamano 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: This. Or keep him on a starter’s schedule and let him go an inning or 2 and then have someone else pitch a bulk of the game. Would also be easier to manage in September when rosters expand. The Dodgers could probably do that with all of their pitching options. Correct. But from reports he wouldn't have an issue with that. But there were reports of teams wanting him to go to the pen as it would probably decrease his innings more than those regular turns in the rotation. That is what he has said he doesn't want to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, ptatc said: It's not a given that he couldn't be in the post season. The option of going to the bullpen for the second half to save him for the post season is a reasonable possibility. However he has said he doesn't want to do that. Maybe the contract demands is his way of ensuring he won't get traded to a team that wants him in the pen for the second half of the season. You already recommended he stop throwing right now , stay on his throwing program and said there's a strong possibility he could have issues next year because of his usage this year. I'm having a hard time now with you saying pitching in the post season is a reasonable possibility given your previous statements. It's like you're playing both sides of the fence because of a very slim chance he could pitch as a reliever which we all know he didn't want to do. GMs knew it too so why trade for the guy if you know he's highly unlikely to pitch at all in the post season given everything we heard prior to the Heyman report ? How many GMs do you think would trade for him and say we're going to force you to pitch in the pen if you can still pitch in October which according to your own recommendation shouldn't happen at all but then you say it's not out of the realm of possibilities. I've also said there's a very slim chance he could pitch in the post season if a team used him as an opener for an inning or 2 then ramped him up to more innings to try and get some 5 innings outings out of him in the post season. But that too is highly unlikely. He could stay on his started routine at least that way. I still don't get why any team would purposely want to sabotage their own investment in him by forcing him to do something he clearly thinks is not good for him or trade for him at all given how slim the chances already were of pitching in the postseason in any capacity. There's really only been one way a team could trade for Crochet at the deadline and that would be because they think he can pitch a full season for the next 2 years very cheaply. That's a much more reasonable risk than expecting him to pitch in the post season this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) 33 minutes ago, ptatc said: Correct. But from reports he wouldn't have an issue with that. But there were reports of teams wanting him to go to the pen as it would probably decrease his innings more than those regular turns in the rotation. That is what he has said he doesn't want to do. I'd have to try to do some math to figure out how you think going to the pen would decrease his innings more than being an opener. It's never been about the innings with him. It's about sticking with his routine. Being a reliever 2 or 3 times a week getting up and throwing in the pen is way different than his routine between starts. However the chances are and always have been remote either way so I don't see the point of discussing it any more. All we're doing is trying to figure out is ways he could get to and pitch in the post season when the chances of that happening have been and remain nearly nil. Edited July 26 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You already recommended he stop throwing right now , stay on his throwing program and said there's a strong possibility he could have issues next year because of his usage this year. I'm having a hard time now with you saying pitching in the post season is a reasonable possibility given your previous statements. It's like you're playing both sides of the fence because of a very slim chance he could pitch as a reliever which we all know he didn't want to do. GMs knew it too so why trade for the guy if you know he's highly unlikely to pitch at all in the post season given everything we heard prior to the Heyman report ? How many GMs do you think would trade for him and say we're going to force you to pitch in the pen if you can still pitch in October which according to your own recommendation shouldn't happen at all but then you say it's not out of the realm of possibilities. I've also said there's a very slim chance he could pitch in the post season if a team used him as an opener for an inning or 2 then ramped him up to more innings to try and get some 5 innings outings out of him in the post season. But that too is highly unlikely. He could stay on his started routine at least that way. I still don't get why any team would purposely want to sabotage their own investment in him by forcing him to do something he clearly thinks is not good for him or trade for him at all given how slim the chances already were of pitching in the postseason in any capacity. There's really only been one way a team could trade for Crochet at the deadline and that would be because they think he can pitch a full season for the next 2 years very cheaply. That's a much more reasonable risk than expecting him to pitch in the post season this year. I never said I would pitch him in the pen. I said that, it's been reported that teams have said that. If a team trades for him before the deadline, they aren't going to shut him down. They will still plan on using him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I'd have to try to do some math to figure out how you think going to the pen would decrease his innings more than being an opener. It's never been about the innings with him. It's about sticking with his routine. Being a reliever 2 or 3 times a week getting up and throwing in the pen is way different than his routine between starts. However the chances are and always have been remote either way so I don't see the point of discussing it any more. All we're doing is trying to figure out is ways he could get to and pitch in the post season when the chances of that happening have been and remain nearly nil. For him it's being on the routine. For a team trading for him, the goal would be to decrease his workload enough during the season to save him to start in the post season. They could do it either way. There are just reports that teams have thought of moving him to the pen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 4 more days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Seems like we will need to wait till the offseason to move him. Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 This is the single funniest thing that could happen this season, cause you know the Sox are mad that one of the best pitchers in baseball publicly wants an extension. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I don’t blame Crochet. He has had to fight tooth and nail to get on a 5 day schedule, which he says is better for his body. Why not use whatever leverage you can to make sure no one sticks you back in the bullpen? If they have to trade him in the offseason or at next year’s TDL, so be it. They’ll still end up with a Cease-like package and we’ll still get to watch one of the very few actual good players in a Sox uni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 If Crochet gets hurt, he has nothing. His request should not be a surprise. Sox should have been on top of this. But heck, even now they won't give him an extra days rest (it's ridiculous to throw Fedde/Crochet Saturday and Sunday). The Braves treated Sale and Lopez much more gingerly than the Sox have treated Crochet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, GreenSox said: If Crochet gets hurt, he has nothing. His request should not be a surprise. Sox should have been on top of this. But heck, even now they won't give him an extra days rest (it's ridiculous to throw Fedde/Crochet Saturday and Sunday). The Braves treated Sale and Lopez much more gingerly than the Sox have treated Crochet. Yeah, this isn't really true. Plenty of teams will line up to take shots at him after this year. Again look at Tyler Glasnow. Despite his crazy injury history, not only did the Dodgers throw legit pieces to get him, the hooked him up for 5 years at $27.5m per year. He's in line for plenty of money, injury or not. Sure injury free gets him Cole money, but it isn't like he is moving into Section 8 housing if he gets another injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 https://x.com/JeffPassan/status/1816886874058747962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 (edited) Passan on Crochet etc. https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/40644497/mlb-trade-deadline-2024-passan-intel-rumors-updates-crochet-skubal-orioles-cubs Quote The news that Crochet, one of the breakout stars of the 2024 season, plans to pitch through the end of the regular season and skip a potential playoff run with a new team unless he receives a contract extension stunned GMs around the game who had expressed interest in acquiring him from the White Sox. "Why," one GM asked, "would I want to get a guy who doesn't want to pitch in the playoffs?" From Crochet's perspective, it's not that simple. Already his plan to pitch the entire regular season is exceeding expectations coming into the year, at which point he had spent his first four seasons as a reliever with 73 career innings pitched and a Tommy John surgery on his résumé. His stunning evolution into a front-line starter -- he has a major league-best 157 strikeouts with only 25 walks and a 3.07 ERA in 111⅓ innings -- had come with questions about how to best handle him down the stretch. The calculus for Crochet, who, like Hader, is represented by CAA, is similar: An extension would guarantee him security against a potential injury and allow him to pitch without concerns about how his usage will affect his future. It's a move more often seen in football holdouts than baseball, where relief pitchers are treated as more fungible than starters, whose workloads have decreased drastically over time. Crochet's approach -- no mandated shutdown to preserve his innings for October or move to the bullpen -- took aback teams that were under the impression a deal for Crochet would not require an extension, according to sources. Part of the allure of Crochet, beyond his elite fastball-cutter combination, was the well-under-market salaries he's due each of the next two seasons before reaching free agency. Because of his injury history and lack of innings, Crochet is making $800,000 -- just $60,000 above the league minimum -- in his first year of arbitration. Regardless of how well he performs for the rest of this season and next year, Crochet will make far less than most front-line starters because arbitration is a precedent-based system and significant year-over-year jumps are not standard. Further, reaching an extension on a deal for a player with Crochet's résumé would take months under normal circumstances. His asking price would be over nine figures -- perhaps in the neighborhood of Tyler Glasnow, who himself signed a five-year, $136.5 million extension after Tampa Bay traded him to the Los Angeles Dodgers in December. Even if a team's model suggests he would be worth that, the initial offer would be far lower. The prospect of a team giving Crochet more in millions than the number of innings he has pitched as a big league starter is dubious. Before he informed the team of his perspective Thursday, Crochet was still a possibility to remain with the White Sox through the end of the season. Assuming only contenders continue to vie for his services, it will either take a team willing to lavish him with a new deal -- which removes a number of lower-revenue franchises from the equation -- or a team willing to take the risk of trading for Crochet and convincing him to amend his plan. And even in the latter case, the risk itself will be baked into trade offers, lessening the return packages the White Sox must consider. The consequences for Chicago were immediately clear: Any hope of reaping a franchise-changing package for Crochet before July 30 took a substantial hit Thursday. It's the trade deadline. It could still happen. Chicago GM Chris Getz is a dealmaker. But the likelier outcome is that Chicago revisits moving him this winter -- provided Crochet makes it through the last two months of the season healthy. Edited July 26 by DirtySox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Passan on Robert. Quote The list of top talents who could stay put doesn't end with Crochet. The ask by the White Sox for Robert, their dynamic 26-year-old center fielder, has been understandably high, leading to little traction on a deal. The lack of movement is nonetheless startling considering the utter dearth of impact bats available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 26 Author Share Posted July 26 Yeah. "Why," one GM asked, "would I want to get a guy who doesn't want to pitch in the playoffs?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Crochet royally f***ed the Sox right now lol I do question his ambition though. I get what he did, but dude, sometimes players don't make the playoffs their entire careers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 What a disaster the Crochet news was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 5 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Passan on Crochet etc. https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/40644497/mlb-trade-deadline-2024-passan-intel-rumors-updates-crochet-skubal-orioles-cubs I am shocked that Crochet and his camp dropped this extension thing so late. That's ridiculous. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiddleCoastBias Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Jfc. We can't even fire-sale properly. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 1 minute ago, Nardiwashere said: I am shocked that Crochet and his camp dropped this extension thing so late. That's ridiculous. I probably would have held onto that and waited to see if my new team was even playoff bound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 So Fedde the only valuable piece that will be dealt. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 I don't think he has a leg to stand on here. He's under contract. If his team is in the playoffs, he's going to refuse to pitch? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Just now, GGajewski18 said: Crochet royally f***ed the Sox right now lol I do question his ambition though. I get what he did, but dude, sometimes players don't make the playoffs their entire careers. Blow out arm because team that acquired him decides they don't have time for an innings cap and if he gets injured, he's cheap. James Andrews recommended Matt Harvey sit out the 2015 playoffs, he didn't and was never the same. OR Receive generational wealth from a team, which also makes your health a priority for the team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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