joejoesox Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Will you ever stop this endless crusade of pessimism? you have to admit, when we are all universally cynical about the future of this team, there's a bit of catharsis in that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 This would be contrary of course to what Nightengale wrote just last Sunday, that the Sox were set on trading Crochet after not getting much response/positive vibes from a contract extension proposal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Still disappointed by Thorpe as the Cease headliner even though he may outpitch Cease as a rookie this season? I think they got a fair deal. I did not think that Thorpe's fastball would play in mlb and it's still early. He only had 1 strikeout yesterday and he's not missing enough bats. The contact allowed will eventually catch up with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: Will you ever stop this endless crusade of pessimism? What have the Sox done in the last 15 years to give a fan any sort of hope? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 19 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: If you can name me a pre-FA, still on arb negative WAR 1B that has been traded at the deadline please ping me. I'm not sure there's a single one in the history of MLB. What's the significance of him being pre-FA, still on arb? A quick look at deals from the last year show Garret Cooper, Jiman Choi, Josh Bell, Jace Peterson, AJ Pollock, Carlos Santana all got moved and none of those guys were very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: What's the significance of him being pre-FA, still on arb? A quick look at deals from the last year show Garret Cooper, Jiman Choi, Josh Bell, Jace Peterson, AJ Pollock, Carlos Santana all got moved and none of those guys were very good. I have the naive belief that scouts don't just pull up Fangraphs, scout the stat line, then suggest a trade. I would imagine that if Vaughn has made some adjustments, and this .800 OPS run he's on looks physically sustainable, a team like Pittsburgh could decide that Vaughn is a better option for the rest of 2024 than Rowdy Tellez. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 7 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: What's the significance of him being pre-FA, still on arb? A quick look at deals from the last year show Garret Cooper, Jiman Choi, Josh Bell, Jace Peterson, AJ Pollock, Carlos Santana all got moved and none of those guys were very good. Because teams don't want to have to give a raise in arb to a bum like Vaughn who probably isn't even worth a roster spot. All those guys you listed have at least a year or two of sustained success and in a few cases are more than just a glorified DH. Apples to Oranges. Vaughn has zero chance of being traded. The Sox will trot him out there next year and just hope and wish he turns into someone worth a roster spot. Hope and wishing isn't a viable plan, but they will try. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: Because teams don't want to have to give a raise in arb to a bum like Vaughn who probably isn't even worth a roster spot. All those guys you listed have at least a year or two of sustained success and in a few cases are more than just a glorified DH. Apples to Oranges. Vaughn has zero chance of being traded. The Sox will trot him out there next year and just hope and wish he turns into someone worth a roster spot. Hope and wishing isn't a viable plan, but they will try. If he's bad and the team decides they don't want him next year, can't they just easily cut him? Its not like he has a guaranteed contract and he's making a ton of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: If he's bad and the team decides they don't want him next year, can't they just easily cut him? Its not like he has a guaranteed contract and he's making a ton of money. they can, but at that point he's essentially just a rental. and a negative WAR value rental well, that's just not smart roster building. anyways, I'm not going to bother arguing about this bum Vaughn anymore. Hopefully the Sox can get some value for other guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 37 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I think they got a fair deal. I did not think that Thorpe's fastball would play in mlb and it's still early. He only had 1 strikeout yesterday and he's not missing enough bats. The contact allowed will eventually catch up with him. Or it won't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 6 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said: Or it won't. Now I'm one for actual run prevention, but his FIP/xFIP suggest this isn't likely to continue. Thorpe's FIP is 4.98 and xFIP is 5.37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 7 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Now I'm one for actual run prevention, but his FIP/xFIP suggest this isn't likely to continue. Thorpe's FIP is 4.98 and xFIP is 5.37 Great. He has like 5 career starts or whatever. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I think they got a fair deal. I did not think that Thorpe's fastball would play in mlb and it's still early. He only had 1 strikeout yesterday and he's not missing enough bats. The contact allowed will eventually catch up with him. So far, he’s striking out more per 9 innings than Buehrle did over his career. Why do you need to strike out a bunch of guys to have success? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 21 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Now I'm one for actual run prevention, but his FIP/xFIP suggest this isn't likely to continue. Thorpe's FIP is 4.98 and xFIP is 5.37 His walk rate is too high so far. I agree with that. But I also believe that will be corrected over time based upon his numbers in the minor leagues. Buehrle only struck out 5.13 per 9 IP but he only walked 2.01 so ultimately that’s where Drew needs to live. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: This would be contrary of course to what Nightengale wrote just last Sunday, that the Sox were set on trading Crochet after not getting much response/positive vibes from a contract extension proposal. We're not supposed to think he's always right anyway.He's just a gossip columnist repeating things he hears from people who may have an agenda or be out of the loop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said: Now I'm one for actual run prevention, but his FIP/xFIP suggest this isn't likely to continue. Thorpe's FIP is 4.98 and xFIP is 5.37 FWIW, FIP hated Mark Buehrle as well, and wasn't a big fan of Hendriks. Pretty sure this stat won't like anyone who gives up a ton of soft contact instead of K's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: I have the naive belief that scouts don't just pull up Fangraphs, scout the stat line, then suggest a trade. I would imagine that if Vaughn has made some adjustments, and this .800 OPS run he's on looks physically sustainable, a team like Pittsburgh could decide that Vaughn is a better option for the rest of 2024 than Rowdy Tellez. His July is already fading that run away. .200/.286/.400/.686 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said: His July is already fading that run away. .200/.286/.400/.686 Frowny face emoji. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: I’ll be in the minority and say I don’t agree with the need to “win” trades. Get what you deem fair value and move on. Obviously you hold these guys if that doesn’t happen, but needing a team to overpay is a bit extreme IMO. Usually these are different ways of saying the samething. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, joejoesox said: I think both guys are gone in less than 3 wks You mean Robert on IL and Crochet shut down? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Of course he should only want trades in which the Sox "win." Of course, in my mind, winning a trade doesn't require the other team to lose the trade. So far, the Cease trade is win-win. Hahn's 2 biggest screwups (Tatis, Semien et al) were each not only lose/win, but we had to chance to get a win on our side no matter what happened. As long as they are well-intended, that's what matters. I don't consider the Sale trade a "lose" for the Sox because we got fair value (light, perhaps, in secondary pieces) in return; it just didn't work out. We win if we get proper value for the player traded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: FWIW, FIP hated Mark Buehrle as well, and wasn't a big fan of Hendriks. Pretty sure this stat won't like anyone who gives up a ton of soft contact instead of K's. I'm aware. It's quite possible Thorpe outperforms his FIP every year like Buehrle and Hendricks did, but those two are unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 8 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said: I'm aware. It's quite possible Thorpe outperforms his FIP every year like Buehrle and Hendricks did, but those two are unicorns. Those numbers also completely ignore that he had one terrible start which destroyed his SSS. Remove that game and his line is 6 ER in 29.1 IP for a 1.84 ERA with 10 BB and 19 K over that span. His FIP would also look very different. If you aren't seeing something different in him, you aren't looking. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 4 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said: What have the Sox done in the last 15 years to give a fan any sort of hope? They fired Rick Hahn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 11 Author Share Posted July 11 13 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: They fired Rick Hahn? And then hired someone even more unqualified without interviews 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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