Crochet wants an extension to pitch in the playoffs

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yeah, it’s better than trying to come up with countless excuses for a terrible GM.

Perhaps you will see the light once Getz fails this trade deadline but I am sure you will continue making excuses for him once he does indeed fail it.

I'm sure it's already been a failure in your eyes. 1st thing you did when the whole Crochet thing stated was blame the Sox.

I on the other hand always thought Crochet would be difficult to move and doubted he would be traded and said so in many posts and because of that you called me naive . I chose to use my mind in analyzing the situation instead of believing reports that it was a certainty that he would be moved after he refused a White Sox extention.  Before and  after that report the situation was the same .He probably wouldn't have been able to pitch in the playoffs anyway so who exactly was going to trade for him ? I thought the Dodgers might trade so him, not necessarily to count on him to pitch in the playoffs but might get him now and use him for the next 2 years . They also could offer him an extension, not necessarily right away but after he pitched well in 2025 .I'm sure they would offer him a much larger extension than the Sox ever would.

However as with any trade Getz would have to be satisfied with the return. If he traded with the Dodgers I could surmise that you would be among the 1st to say Getz made a terrible trade.

Also youve had a hard time distinguishing between defending Getz and defending that he was hired to be thrust into a no win situation by an owner who appears to have more important interests he plans to invest in and speaks with a forked tongue regarding the Sox. If JR needs cash for those other investments why spend millions of dollars to make the Sox better in the next few years ? He'll allow token money to be spent like this year after payroll was slashed and part of that slashing was trading Cease. It'll be slashed again when Moncada and Eloy are off the books and maybe others. They are currently planning to slash more by trading anyone with a pulse which also has been no surprise since January .

You blame Getz for not getting better players on the roster when he had hardly any money to spend. Do you think he just wanted to sign a bunch of bums ? Of course not .  But he had a lot of roster spots to fill and no players to fill them . His choice was either give a bunch of guys minor league contracts which I doubt MLB would be happy about or sign a bunch of guys who might play decent defense or at least be good guys because the only good players he might have were pitchers. He got Fedde to sign here. Does that mean he outsmarted every GM in baseball, all of whom could've used a guy like Fedde ? How many GMs biggest expenditure of the off season was $15M on a 2 year contract ?

You complain that any blind man could see that he wasted millions of dollars on Lopez and Maldonado. Have you analyzed every free agent dollar spent last winter and seen how much was spent on guys having terrible years or got injured or signed guys they later released ?

Getz was operating from the cheap seats signing marginal players. Of course his failure rate was going to be high. He's a damn pawn of Reinsdorf given peanuts to spend on scraps in the 1st full year of a knockdown & rebuild and you act like you expected miracles.

He actually did get 2 miracles Fedde and Crochet none of whom you ever give him credit for. Both far outweigh your minor grievances turning molehills into mountains. Some of his most expensive and supposedly best players that he inherited once again proved that they couldn't stay healthy or not worth the money they were paid so no salary relief or prospects to get there. So sorry JR WhiteSox2023 is on the job making sure the pennies you gave Getz is well spent.

You recently  asked and why exactly does Getz deserve credit for Crochet ?  I believe it was satisfactorily answered by more than just me. He's not to blame for what Crochet's agents did either.

[ptatc]

37 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm sure it's already been a failure in your eyes. 1st thing you did when the whole Crochet thing stated was blame the Sox.

I on the other hand always thought Crochet would be difficult to move and doubted he would be traded and said so in many posts and because of that you called me naive . I chose to use my mind in analyzing the situation instead of believing reports that it was a certainty that he would be moved after he refused a White Sox extention.  Before and  after that report the situation was the same .He probably wouldn't have been able to pitch in the playoffs anyway so who exactly was going to trade for him ? I thought the Dodgers might trade so him, not necessarily to count on him to pitch in the playoffs but might get him now and use him for the next 2 years . They also could offer him an extension, not necessarily right away but after he pitched well in 2025 .I'm sure they would offer him a much larger extension than the Sox ever would.

However as with any trade Getz would have to be satisfied with the return. If he traded with the Dodgers I could surmise that you would be among the 1st to say Getz made a terrible trade.

Also youve had a hard time distinguishing between defending Getz and defending that he was hired to be thrust into a no win situation by an owner who appears to have more important interests he plans to invest in and speaks with a forked tongue regarding the Sox. If JR needs cash for those other investments why spend millions of dollars to make the Sox better in the next few years ? He'll allow token money to be spent like this year after payroll was slashed and part of that slashing was trading Cease. It'll be slashed again when Moncada and Eloy are off the books and maybe others. They are currently planning to slash more by trading anyone with a pulse which also has been no surprise since January .

You blame Getz for not getting better players on the roster when he had hardly any money to spend. Do you think he just wanted to sign a bunch of bums ? Of course not .  But he had a lot of roster spots to fill and no players to fill them . His choice was either give a bunch of guys minor league contracts which I doubt MLB would be happy about or sign a bunch of guys who might play decent defense or at least be good guys because the only good players he might have were pitchers. He got Fedde to sign here. Does that mean he outsmarted every GM in baseball, all of whom could've used a guy like Fedde ? How many GMs biggest expenditure of the off season was $15M on a 2 year contract ?

You complain that any blind man could see that he wasted millions of dollars on Lopez and Maldonado. Have you analyzed every free agent dollar spent last winter and seen how much was spent on guys having terrible years or got injured or signed guys they later released ?

Getz was operating from the cheap seats signing marginal players. Of course his failure rate was going to be high. He's a damn pawn of Reinsdorf given peanuts to spend on scraps in the 1st full year of a knockdown & rebuild and you act like you expected miracles.

He actually did get 2 miracles Fedde and Crochet none of whom you ever give him credit for. Both far outweigh your minor grievances turning molehills into mountains. Some of his most expensive and supposedly best players that he inherited once again proved that they couldn't stay healthy or not worth the money they were paid so no salary relief or prospects to get there. So sorry JR WhiteSox2023 is on the job making sure the pennies you gave Getz is well spent.

You recently  asked and why exactly does Getz deserve credit for Crochet ?  I believe it was satisfactorily answered by more than just me. He's not to blame for what Crochet's agents did either.

Once Eloy and moncada are off the roster we'll be better able to see how Getz operates. Giving the long term early contracts to Eloy, moncada and Robert was the downfall of Hahn rebuild. It seems like a good idea at that time to lock up young talent. However  with their injuries it's really hamstrung this team.

Edited July 27 by ptatc

[GREEDY]

Either:

A.  The Sox knew Crochet likely wasn't willing to pitch into October and somehow didn't announce they weren't trading him despite months of rampant speculation. 

or

B.  Crochet came back from an exhibition game where he willingly pitched and expressed new demands and completely screwed the club that drafted him, got him to the show immediately, ripped through years of team control with zero concern for the club's interest, continued to let him start when the entire league assumed he was a reliever and then already began protecting him this summer... whew.

 

I think it is B and Sox fans should BOO the heck of out of him.  I'd option him down today.  

[Chicago White Sox]

Sherman wrote a column today on why the Dodgers could still be a fit for Crochet and even without an extension.  His main point was the Dodgers are looking for a game changer for October since they are already a lock for the playoffs.  And if they acquire Crochet, they can either work on an extension post trade or try to convince him that they can manage his workload (assuming as opener) and keep his arm healthy for a playoff run without one. 

I still think it’s a massive long shot, but I do agree they are the one team that would probably take on some risk in this type of trade.  For the Sox, I don’t think you compromise your valuation all that much.  I’d personally need De Paula, Freeland, Hope, plus a second tier arm to make a deal with them.  And to me, that’s a no brainer trade for the Dodgers with the way they develop talent.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

25 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Once Eloy and moncadaare off the roster we'll be better able to see how Getz operates.

We'll have to see what kind money he can spend 1st. I'm not exactly anticipating JR loosening the purse strings . The possibility does exist that they could be even worse next year even if JR gives him slightly more money to spend if you take Fedde Robert and Crochet off the team between now and opening 2025.

They'll be starting 2025 with less MLB talent than this year.

[ChiSox59]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sherman wrote a column today on why the Dodgers could still be a fit for Crochet and even without an extension.  His main point was the Dodgers are looking for a game changer for October since they are already a lock for the playoffs.  And if they acquire Crochet, they can either work on an extension post trade or try to convince him that they can manage his workload (assuming as opener) and keep his arm healthy for a playoff run without one. 

I still think it’s a massive long shot, but I do agree they are the one team that would probably take on some risk in this type of trade.  For the Sox, I don’t think you compromise your valuation all that much.  I’d personally need De Paula, Freeland, Hope, plus a second tier arm to make a deal with them.  And to me, that’s a no brainer trade for the Dodgers with the way they develop talent.

That feels like a major compromise to me. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sherman wrote a column today on why the Dodgers could still be a fit for Crochet and even without an extension.  His main point was the Dodgers are looking for a game changer for October since they are already a lock for the playoffs.  And if they acquire Crochet, they can either work on an extension post trade or try to convince him that they can manage his workload (assuming as opener) and keep his arm healthy for a playoff run without one. 

I still think it’s a massive long shot, but I do agree they are the one team that would probably take on some risk in this type of trade.  For the Sox, I don’t think you compromise your valuation all that much.  I’d personally need De Paula, Freeland, Hope, plus a second tier arm to make a deal with them.  And to me, that’s a no brainer trade for the Dodgers with the way they develop talent.

Sherman and I are on the same wavelength except I beat him to the punch. It's like he's been reading my posts from the last week and the lengthy one I just posted prior to you posting your info about the Sherman article which I wasn't aware. But it is indeed a longshot.

Edited July 27 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[supernuke]

At this point the best option has to be to ramp him down and try to trade him in the off season. I doubt any GM was going to sell the farm for a guy that would be a risk to be unavailable in October anyway.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

25 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

Either:

A.  The Sox knew Crochet likely wasn't willing to pitch into October and somehow didn't announce they weren't trading him despite months of rampant speculation. 

or

B.  Crochet came back from an exhibition game where he willingly pitched and expressed new demands and completely screwed the club that drafted him, got him to the show immediately, ripped through years of team control with zero concern for the club's interest, continued to let him start when the entire league assumed he was a reliever and then already began protecting him this summer... whew.

 

I think it is B and Sox fans should BOO the heck of out of him.  I'd option him down today.  

No, no, no. Imagine he wants to stay. Imagine he genuinely wants an extension and the powers that be low balled the hell out of him. And now if a new team takes him and wears him down in the post season he has little financial security if an injury pops up. Sox had an opportunity to work with him, they chose to sell and he took care of himself. He'd get a standing ovation from me if I dared enter that park. 

[Chicago White Sox]

16 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

That feels like a major compromise to me. 

It’s more quantity of over quality, but De Paula has star level hitting potential, Freeland seems like a guy who will be solid everyday guy up the middle, Hope will likely be cracking top 100’s a year from now, and then the arm would be a meaningful piece (say Ferris in this case).  Maybe it’s not enough, but I feel like I’d have seriously consider it if I were Getz.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

No, no, no. Imagine he wants to stay. Imagine he genuinely wants an extension and the powers that be low balled the hell out of him. And now if a new team takes him and wears him down in the post season he has little financial security if an injury pops up. Sox had an opportunity to work with him, they chose to sell and he took care of himself. He'd get a standing ovation from me if I dared enter that park. 

I understand where your coming from. I also am aware that the Sox did likely lowball him. JR wasn't going to approve of a $100M extension for a guy with his injury and pitching  history. I actually agree a low-ball offer would be appropriate if they gave him a modest extension with an opt out built in.

He still has 2 seasons to pitch before he reaches Free agency. That's not nothing for a guy with his injury history. He has no leverage to get a large extension especially when the Sox could use their leverage to make it 3 years before he reaches Free Agency.

[ptatc]

31 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

We'll have to see what kind money he can spend 1st. I'm not exactly anticipating JR loosening the purse strings . The possibility does exist that they could be even worse next year even if JR gives him slightly more money to spend if you take Fedde Robert and Crochet off the team between now and opening 2025.

They'll be starting 2025 with less MLB talent than this year.

With moncada and Eloy off the books as well as anyone else they trade, he should have e a fair amount to work with. 2025 will be the year to get the milb players acclimated to the MLB.

[sin city sox fan]

This could help us out.  If Crochet is off the market now, it just drives up the current value for Fedde and Flexen.  Plus, we still have the ace to trade in the offseason.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, ptatc said:

With moncada and Eloy off the books as well as anyone else they trade, he should have e a fair amount to work with. 2025 will be the year to get the milb players acclimated to the MLB.

Are there any though, that are surefire building blocks for the next core?

Vaughn and Sheets are both four years into their careers and they can’t even make a determination on them.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, sin city sox fan said:

This could help us out.  If Crochet is off the market now, it just drives up the current value for Fedde and Flexen.  Plus, we still have the ace to trade in the offseason.

And the Mets have taken Severino Q and Manaea off the market…

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I understand where your coming from. I also am aware that the Sox did likely lowball him. JR wasn't going to approve of a $100M extension for a guy with his injury and pitching  history. I actually agree a low-ball offer would be appropriate if they gave him a modest extension with an opt out built in.

He still has 2 seasons to pitch before he reaches Free agency. That's not nothing for a guy with his injury history. He has no leverage to get a large extension especially when the Sox could use their leverage to make it 3 years before he reaches Free Agency.

After doing that…would the Sox ever sign a Tier A free agent again?

Top 5 pitcher in baseball sent down to claw back a year of control…that’s truly unprecedented.

Players league wide pay close attention to that kind of shady move.  Like fighting Gio over pennies on the dollar in arbitration over his union role.

[ptatc]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Are there any though, that are surefire building blocks for the next core?

Vaughn and Sheets are both four years into their careers and they can’t even make a determination on them.

I think you have bush, adams, quero, eder and a few pen guys who will all gets looks probably Montgomery and Ramos as well. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

After doing that…would the Sox ever sign a Tier A free agent again?

Top 5 pitcher in baseball sent down to claw back a year of control…that’s truly unprecedented.

Players league wide pay close attention to that kind of shady move.  Like fighting Gio over pennies on the dollar in arbitration over his union role.

They don't sign Tier A free agents anyway or Tier B for that matter.

While I agree that the Sox are likely not to send him down to get back the extra year but he's worth more if they do. But it's not like they wouldn't have a legitimate reason to do so. They've had plenty of opportunities including the beginning of this year to do it.

Instead they worked with Garrett saw he was making great progress because of changes to his pitch repetoire by adding the cutter which Crochet adapted to beautifully and cutting back on his sweeper.

Every opportunity was given to Garrett to pitch in the major leagues and it's because of that, that he is destined to become a very young FA and possibly have an opportunity to makes hundreds of millions of dollars.

The Sox have very few assets worth very much and Crochet and more likely his agents torpedoed most possibilities of a trade. I hope Crochet's agent made him aware that the Sox could send him down and gain another year of control back before they blew everything up with the extension controversy. Otherwise  he's been poorly handled by his agency who got greedy and tried to get their cut of Crochet's impending riches a bit early.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm sure it's already been a failure in your eyes. 1st thing you did when the whole Crochet thing stated was blame the Sox.

I on the other hand always thought Crochet would be difficult to move and doubted he would be traded and said so in many posts and because of that you called me naive . I chose to use my mind in analyzing the situation instead of believing reports that it was a certainty that he would be moved after he refused a White Sox extention.  Before and  after that report the situation was the same .He probably wouldn't have been able to pitch in the playoffs anyway so who exactly was going to trade for him ? I thought the Dodgers might trade so him, not necessarily to count on him to pitch in the playoffs but might get him now and use him for the next 2 years . They also could offer him an extension, not necessarily right away but after he pitched well in 2025 .I'm sure they would offer him a much larger extension than the Sox ever would.

However as with any trade Getz would have to be satisfied with the return. If he traded with the Dodgers I could surmise that you would be among the 1st to say Getz made a terrible trade.

Also youve had a hard time distinguishing between defending Getz and defending that he was hired to be thrust into a no win situation by an owner who appears to have more important interests he plans to invest in and speaks with a forked tongue regarding the Sox. If JR needs cash for those other investments why spend millions of dollars to make the Sox better in the next few years ? He'll allow token money to be spent like this year after payroll was slashed and part of that slashing was trading Cease. It'll be slashed again when Moncada and Eloy are off the books and maybe others. They are currently planning to slash more by trading anyone with a pulse which also has been no surprise since January .

You blame Getz for not getting better players on the roster when he had hardly any money to spend. Do you think he just wanted to sign a bunch of bums ? Of course not .  But he had a lot of roster spots to fill and no players to fill them . His choice was either give a bunch of guys minor league contracts which I doubt MLB would be happy about or sign a bunch of guys who might play decent defense or at least be good guys because the only good players he might have were pitchers. He got Fedde to sign here. Does that mean he outsmarted every GM in baseball, all of whom could've used a guy like Fedde ? How many GMs biggest expenditure of the off season was $15M on a 2 year contract ?

You complain that any blind man could see that he wasted millions of dollars on Lopez and Maldonado. Have you analyzed every free agent dollar spent last winter and seen how much was spent on guys having terrible years or got injured or signed guys they later released ?

Getz was operating from the cheap seats signing marginal players. Of course his failure rate was going to be high. He's a damn pawn of Reinsdorf given peanuts to spend on scraps in the 1st full year of a knockdown & rebuild and you act like you expected miracles.

He actually did get 2 miracles Fedde and Crochet none of whom you ever give him credit for. Both far outweigh your minor grievances turning molehills into mountains. Some of his most expensive and supposedly best players that he inherited once again proved that they couldn't stay healthy or not worth the money they were paid so no salary relief or prospects to get there. So sorry JR WhiteSox2023 is on the job making sure the pennies you gave Getz is well spent.

You recently  asked and why exactly does Getz deserve credit for Crochet ?  I believe it was satisfactorily answered by more than just me. He's not to blame for what Crochet's agents did either.

That guy also argues vociferously that Getz started with a roster burdened with three guys who everybody knew would be injured within the first 10 days, and two others would hit famously before their career norms. He's never clarifies if he thought Getz should have cut Benintendi, Vaughn, Robert, Moncada an Eloy, or signed players better than them to multi year deals and benched the 5. 

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

That guy also argues vociferously that Getz started with a roster burdened with three guys who everybody knew would be injured within the first 10 days, and two others would hit famously before their career norms. He's never clarifies if he thought Getz should have cut Benintendi, Vaughn, Robert, Moncada an Eloy, or signed players better than them to multi year deals and benched the 5. 

 

Yes or no. Do you think Chris Getz has done better than bad as GM of the White Sox?

[WestEddy]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Yes or no. Do you think Chris Getz has done better than bad as GM of the White Sox?

Yes, he's done better than "bad". I think we have no idea how well he's done. We won't have any idea at least until the winter meetings, really. He was saddled with 5 positions being written in to the lineup by their contract and draft status. All he could work with was 4 offensive positions, and the pitching staff, under certain budget constraints. We also don't know what feedback he was getting from free agents as far as whether anyone worth anything would sign here. The Sox seemed to have been a last resort, as evidenced by the stories behind the Clevinger and Pham signings. It's probable that guys like Manaea and Montas took less to go to possible competitive situations than play here. 

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, he's done better than "bad". I think we have no idea how well he's done. We won't have any idea at least until the winter meetings, really. He was saddled with 5 positions being written in to the lineup by their contract and draft status. All he could work with was 4 offensive positions, and the pitching staff, under certain budget constraints. We also don't know what feedback he was getting from free agents as far as whether anyone worth anything would sign here. The Sox seemed to have been a last resort, as evidenced by the stories behind the Clevinger and Pham signings. It's probable that guys like Manaea and Montas took less to go to possible competitive situations than play here. 

 

An absolutely insane take. I didn't read after the word yes.

[WestEddy]

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

An absolutely insane take. I didn't read after the word yes.

Then you are a coward. You asked, I answered. 

Thanks for letting me know I can disregard your man-baby takes, going forward. 

[Dick Allen]

30 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, he's done better than "bad". I think we have no idea how well he's done. We won't have any idea at least until the winter meetings, really. He was saddled with 5 positions being written in to the lineup by their contract and draft status. All he could work with was 4 offensive positions, and the pitching staff, under certain budget constraints. We also don't know what feedback he was getting from free agents as far as whether anyone worth anything would sign here. The Sox seemed to have been a last resort, as evidenced by the stories behind the Clevinger and Pham signings. It's probable that guys like Manaea and Montas took less to go to possible competitive situations than play here. 

 

Youre trying to have it both ways. Youtold us 3 guys who always get hurt getting hurt at the same time was the big reason they were so bad. Now these are guys he was stuck with is the reason. Getz is bad. Any other team would have fired him by now. Of course, they never would have hired him in the first place.

 

I do think after the deadline, the Sox should release Eloy and Mobada. It makes no sense giving them ABs moving forward, and maybe they can find a better situation for themselves.

Edited July 27 by Dick Allen

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Then you are a coward. You asked, I answered. 

Thanks for letting me know I can disregard your man-baby takes, going forward. 

I asked you for a yes or no answer. Nothing else.