WhiteSox2023 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said: How can this possibly make sense? They're team options. The team can decline them. Someone please frame for me the argument that these could be seen as "negative value." The buyouts are $2M lol You already answered it, but the only way team options are a negative is if the buyouts are very expensive. $2 million is not expensive at all, and if Robert actually does stay healthy and puts up the numbers he is capable of, no team is going to find a guy like that for only $20 million in 2026 and 2027. If Rosenthal truly said this, he and his bow tie are dead wrong. This isn’t difficult. Tell me one player a team can acquire next offseason like Robert for 3/$55 million. Not happening. And the buyouts are actually an out for any team that acquires him just in case Robert suffers some horrible long-term injury. 2024: $12.5M 2025: $15M 2026: $20M club option ($2M buyout) 2027: $20M club option ($2M buyout) Edited July 16 by WhiteSox2023 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 On 7/14/2024 at 4:37 PM, baseball_gal_aly said: I don't think it's negative value. I don't think it's a bargain. I am well aware of what FA sign for. I think there is hesitancy of other teams to spend that money if he can't play >100 games, which he has only done once in his career. Also Ken Rosenthal reported that other teams consider Robert's options more of a negative than a positive so idk why you'd have any reason not to believe him. I wouldn't have even considered it a possibility until Rosenthal's report. 2020 Almost played that entire Covid season, so shouldn't be penalized for a sixty game season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Luis Robert, Jr. 2019 122 games/140 games xxx 2020 56/60 possible games xxx 2021 80 games 2022 99 games 2023 145/160 games xxx 2024 51/98 games 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 (edited) Crochet's 1 IP from the ASG https://tinyurl.com/27dfs4tf Edited July 17 by joejoesox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Heyman thinks the Yankees should only trade Spencer Jones for Tarik Skubal, not for Crochet. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Yankee prospect hype is the absolute worst. Spencer Jones isn't a worthy headliner for either player. 5 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 minute ago, DirtySox said: Yankee prospect hype is the absolute worst. Spencer Jones isn't a worthy headliner for either player. I'll take him for Kopech. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 2 minutes ago, DirtySox said: Yankee prospect hype is the absolute worst. Spencer Jones isn't a worthy headliner for either player. He's had an awful year, and has never really has had a year which screams untouchable anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Just thinking in regards to Crochett and the Orioles as a potential landing spot. Kind of cool that Mike Elias is getting some really advanced scouting with Adley catching all three of Skubal, Crochett, and Mason Miller. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 On 7/14/2024 at 1:25 PM, WBWSF said: Obviously not good. I would rather add good players to the team and keep Crochet and Robert Jr. Sox have been too impatient and too happy dumping salary. We could have had one of the best pitching rotation in MLB with a little patience. Crochet, Cease, ReyLo, Fedde and Bummer in the bullpen. Crochet and Cease are 1-2 in strikeouts in MLB. 150 and 149 respectively today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 22 minutes ago, hankchifan said: Sox have been too impatient and too happy dumping salary. We could have had one of the best pitching rotation in MLB with a little patience. Crochet, Cease, ReyLo, Fedde and Bummer in the bullpen. Crochet and Cease are 1-2 in strikeouts in MLB. 150 and 149 respectively today. Lopez was a free agent last year. It was either dump him or lose him for nothing. They also did really well in that trade with another pending free agent in Giolito who was way more likely to be signed than Lopez as he had actually been dependable... up until his arm fell off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 27 minutes ago, hankchifan said: Sox have been too impatient and too happy dumping salary. We could have had one of the best pitching rotation in MLB with a little patience. Crochet, Cease, ReyLo, Fedde and Bummer in the bullpen. Crochet and Cease are 1-2 in strikeouts in MLB. 150 and 149 respectively today. Well the problem was that our position players, other than Robert, either never developed (Vaughn) or turned to crap overnight (Eloy, Anderson, Benintendi, Moncada). We just signed our best infielder: Senzel. We didn't have to do it in 2016. But in 2024, we really don't have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 On 7/15/2024 at 9:14 PM, Eminor3rd said: How can this possibly make sense? They're team options. The team can decline them. Someone please frame for me the argument that these could be seen as "negative value." The buyouts are $2M lol Makes zero sense. Teams have tons of flexibility and he has outplayed the value of those options every year (and even in his down year this season is on track to do so again this year). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: He's had an awful year, and has never really has had a year which screams untouchable anyway He is like the outfielder Sox got for one of our relievers a few years back. Sox bought on hype of Yankees prospect whose star was fading. Name escapes me but he was a top 100 guy so he fit Hahns mo of winning the headline in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said: He is like the outfielder Sox got for one of our relievers a few years back. Sox bought on hype of Yankees prospect whose star was fading. Name escapes me but he was a top 100 guy so he fit Hahns mo of winning the headline in a trade. Blake Rutherford. Zero power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Blake Rutherford. Zero power. Right. We gave up Robertson for him, I believe. Maybe Kahnle?? Didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 46 minutes ago, oldsox said: Right. We gave up Robertson for him, I believe. Maybe Kahnle?? Didn't work. Yes. Sox got a package back from NY centered around Blake Rutherford for Frazier, Kahnle and Robertson. I liked the trade at the time. Rutherford was one of those up and coming prospects. He just never panned out. It could have been a combo of the typical Yankee overhype mixed with the fact that the Sox can’t develop for crap. When the Sox trade for prospects, I immediately hope they are triple-a players, close to the big leagues. Other organizations tend to do a much better job developing the younger players than the Sox do. Perhaps Barfield can change this everlasting trend? If the Sox do trade Crochet, I want 2 high end triple-a prospects ready for the show. Can’t afford to trade for young projects that will inevitably fail like Blake Rutherford did. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 12 hours ago, DirtySox said: Yankee prospect hype is the absolute worst. Spencer Jones isn't a worthy headliner for either player. I would prefer Baltimore, LAD, or Boston prospects for Crochet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, GreenSox said: Well the problem was that our position players, other than Robert, either never developed (Vaughn) or turned to crap overnight (Eloy, Anderson, Benintendi, Moncada). We just signed our best infielder: Senzel. We didn't have to do it in 2016. But in 2024, we really don't have a choice. They are plenty around here who will argue that the Sox didn't have a choice back in 2016 either. We had to tear it down and tank back then and we have to do it again now. There is no other way! s/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 4 hours ago, GreatScott82 said: Yes. Sox got a package back from NY centered around Blake Rutherford for Frazier, Kahnle and Robertson. I liked the trade at the time. Rutherford was one of those up and coming prospects. He just never panned out. It could have been a combo of the typical Yankee overhype mixed with the fact that the Sox can’t develop for crap. When the Sox trade for prospects, I immediately hope they are triple-a players, close to the big leagues. Other organizations tend to do a much better job developing the younger players than the Sox do. Perhaps Barfield can change this everlasting trend? If the Sox do trade Crochet, I want 2 high end triple-a prospects ready for the show. Can’t afford to trade for young projects that will inevitably fail like Blake Rutherford did. It was a big mistake to put all 3 of those players together. All had at least another year on the contract. Frazier was having his typical year (which never excited me, but a lot people really liked him). Robertson and Kahnle were absolutely lights out, each with a WHIP < 1. They would have done much better splitting those 3 up. But, it's easier on Hahn to package them up and move on. Just have to be really careful with any of them AAA or not. Always AAAA risk. I want players who are improving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Just now, GreenSox said: It was a big mistake to put all 3 of those players together. All had at least another year on the contract. Frazier was having his typical year (which never excited me, but a lot people really liked him). Robertson and Kahnle were absolutely lights out, each with a WHIP < 1. They would have done much better splitting those 3 up. But, it's easier on Hahn to package them up and move on. Just have to be really careful with any of them AAA or not. Always AAAA risk. I want players who are improving. This was the deal - the issue was Rutherford already had his helium going out. Sox made the deal based upon intelligence from a year earlier and ignored more recent data which was indicating cracks in the armor / glaring weaknesses that would hinder his ultimate long term path (unless of course the Sox knew this and thought they had developmental solutions -> but given how Hahn structured most of his deals, I just don't think that is the case. I think given the lack of scouts they have / had (maybe it has grown) - they just aren't well positioned for those sort of things. I'm hoping they are doing a better job now with their scouting of other teams so they have the right intelligence to pick / acquire the rigtht players - given where the franchise is (i.e we are going to be selling more than buying) this is almost, if not more important than having the right draft scouts as Sox could get 15+ guys and more high profile talent via trades in the next few weeks than they got on the entire draft (in fact my expectation is they absolutely should get more value in next 2-3 weeks than they did in their draft). So how they have right process in place to maximize and target right guys is huge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 7 minutes ago, GreenSox said: It was a big mistake to put all 3 of those players together. All had at least another year on the contract. Frazier was having his typical year (which never excited me, but a lot people really liked him). Robertson and Kahnle were absolutely lights out, each with a WHIP < 1. They would have done much better splitting those 3 up. But, it's easier on Hahn to package them up and move on. Just have to be really careful with any of them AAA or not. Always AAAA risk. I want players who are improving. Yep. No more old dudes with no upside like Charlie Tilson, Ryan Cordell, Zach Deloach. Let's get some young dudes with helium. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/16/2024 at 11:34 PM, GreenSox said: Well the problem was that our position players, other than Robert, either never developed (Vaughn) or turned to crap overnight (Eloy, Anderson, Benintendi, Moncada). We just signed our best infielder: Senzel. We didn't have to do it in 2016. But in 2024, we really don't have a choice. 7 names? Trying to catch me? C'mon now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 7/16/2024 at 9:14 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: Heyman thinks the Yankees should only trade Spencer Jones for Tarik Skubal, not for Crochet. ? They can keep him, and he can flop in their system. He's 23 in AA and his K rate has done nothing but get worse each year and/or each time he has advanced a league. To date this year in AA (a league he should be expected to perform well in at his age) his K rate is almost 40% (37.1% as of when I checked last night). He also has a sub 10% walk rate. I don't think any organization outside of the Yankees would consider Jones a headliner piece at this point, but I'd be happy to see the Tigers trade Skubal for a package headlined by him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 On 7/16/2024 at 9:14 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: Heyman thinks the Yankees should only trade Spencer Jones for Tarik Skubal, not for Crochet. ? why laughing emoji, Skubal is more valuable and not on an innings limit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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