DBAHO Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Well I know some ppl like Beastly ain't gonna like this , Having gotten nowhere with talks about a contract extension, the White Sox quietly have begun shopping four-time All-Star Magglio Ordonez. His salary has outgrown the ability of the organization to pay it—and according to executives gathered at the annual general managers' meetings, there is a very limited pool of teams that even can consider adding it. One of those is Anaheim, which might be willing to deal closer Troy Percival or center fielder Darin Erstad, but executives from other clubs caution that the return in a potential Ordonez trade probably would not be in keeping with his production. Ordonez, who hit .317 with 29 homers and 99 runs batted in last season, is due $14 million in 2004, the final year of a three-year contract. He will be eligible for free agency after the season and the Sox are pessimistic about their ability to keep him. "Magglio's a one-year proposition for us at this point," a Sox source said Tuesday. General manager Ken Williams declined to discuss specific players, including Ordonez. But he acknowledged that it would be impossible to add any significant parts this winter without first moving some salaries. The Sox have six players under contract at combined salaries of $43.375 million and project the cost to retain the major-leaguers under their control—including arbitration-eligible players such as Carlos Lee, Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland—at about $64 million. According to sources, the tentative 2004 payroll is $55 million to $58 million. "The job remains the same," Williams said. "You try to shape your roster so you can make the playoffs and go forth in them. It's a goal to do that every year. This year will just bring a different challenge." Frank Thomas' decision to accept a $6 million player option leaves Williams' hands tied by the four right-handed hitters in the lineup: Thomas, Ordonez, Lee and Paul Konerko, who collectively are due about $34 million. That's almost 60 percent of a $58 million payroll. Trading at least one of them or closer Billy Koch appears to be the first order of business for Williams. He would like to gain some flexibility to pursue a proven starting pitcher or re-sign one or two free agents from a group that includes Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett and Tom Gordon. Lee, who last year set career highs with 31 homers and 113 RBIs, might be the most attractive Sox player on the current market. He earned $4.2 million this year and is eligible for arbitration as a four-plus player. The Los Angeles Dodgers are interested in both Lee and Konerko and are dangling left-hander Odalis Perez, who was 12-12 with 4.52 ERA last year. A White Sox source confirmed talks with the Mets about a possible deal for Koch, who is due to earn $6.375 in the final year of his two-year deal. The Mets believe manager Art Howe and new pitching coach Rick Peterson, who worked with Koch in Oakland, could get him back on track after a season in which he had a 5.77 earned-run average and only 11 saves. But Mets GM Jim Duquette would like to get the Sox to take a bad contract in return. Center fielder Roger Cedeno is among those the Mets are pushing. Trading Konerko will be difficult. He has two years and $16.75 million left on his contract and hit only .234 last season. But sources say the White Sox have created interest in several of their veterans by indicating they would be willing to pay a portion of those salaries. Trading a homegrown star like the 29-year-old Ordonez would be painful but merits consideration if he cannot be re-signed. Williams said preliminary discussions on an extension broke off during the 2003 season because of Ordonez's asking price. He was believed to be seeking $15 million a year for four to six seasons. Among the possibilities is to deal Ordonez to Anaheim for a package of players topped by Percival, who converted 33-of-37 save chances last year, or Erstad. The latter is a risky proposition given that he has three years and $24 million left on his contract and played only 67 games because of hamstring problems last year. Erstad, however, has been on the Sox's radar screen for years. Baltimore, Los Angeles and both New York teams are also possible targets for Ordonez trade talks. The presence of Gary Sheffield and Vladimir Guerrero on the free-agent market will hurt the Sox's position in any possible Ordonez deal. The Yankees, for instance, are more likely to sign one of those two rather than trade for Ordonez. The Sox have two potential outfield replacements on the way in Joe Borchard and Jeremy Reed. They could buy time for them to spend the first half of next season at Triple-A by playing Willie Harris and Aaron Rowand or signing an inexpensive free agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 He was believed to be seeking $15 million a year for four to six seasons. Until he hits 48 HR and 140 RBI every year, hits in the CLUTCH, and fields at a Gold-Glove pace, he ain't worth that - no way no how. See ya later, Maggs. You're no Manny Ramirez. The days of those kind of salaries are dead and gone. I'm glad his agent is so clueless that he doesn't realize it. Even A-Rod isn't worth 15-20 million a year - although, like I said, if someone is stupid enough to pay you that, I guess you are. But these free agents seeking those huge contracts are in for a huge surprise. Welcome back to reality, spoiled bonus babies. But no one will pay 15 million for a 2-dimensional player unless they are complete stooge dumbasses. Or George Steinbrenner. Same difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn12 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 See ya later, Maggs. You're no Manny Ramirez Is that good or bad, I don't know. I agree though, and have long been a motivating force behind trading Maggs now before we start the final year that we will have him anyway. Face it, if he expects a 4yr/60 mill contract, see ya. NO WAY IN HELL do I want to see Roger Cedeno in a Sox uni next year, and really no reason to trade CLee while we still control some of his FA abilities. I'd take a Konerko-for-Odalis Perez deal if Perez' contract isn't TOO bad. Thats a lefty for the Rotation. If they could then get Ponson, I'd LOVE Buehrle, Loaiza, Ponson, Garland, Perez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Odalis Perez had a .500 record last year, but that isn't the telling story. Remember, his team is like one of the worst offensive teams in history - or damn near it. That guy had some bad games - every starter does. However, he could have easily been 16-8, 17-7, 15-9, etc. They didn't score jack s*** for him, or for ANY of their pitchers, for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Im not a big fan of Erstad, espcially with the injury last year, and I cant imagine it whould be Maggs for Percivil stright up. What whould that deal look like? Given the state of our bullpen, and Maggs contract demands, if we were offered Maggs for Percy straight up, I would have to take it. It would be nice to get a prospect or two, but I can't see us getting a much better deal without taking on a s***ty contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Odalis Perez had a .500 record last year, but that isn't the telling story. Remember, his team is like one of the worst offensive teams in history - or damn near it. That guy had some bad games - every starter does. However, he could have easily been 16-8, 17-7, 15-9, etc. They didn't score jack s*** for him, or for ANY of their pitchers, for that matter. But with Maggs gone, Kong possibly gone, Valentin and Frank back, and Rowand with Borchard/Reed in the OF, just how good do you think our offense will be? I'm all for trading Maggs but I really think that our O is going to take an enourmous hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 But with Maggs gone, Kong possibly gone, Valentin and Frank back, and Rowand with Borchard/Reed in the OF, just how good do you think our offense will be? I'm all for trading Maggs but I really think that our O is going to take an enourmous hit. You can score more with less. Wally Backman proved it the last two years in Birmingham. Get the right mix of players (speed, power, average) and runs can be scored without hitting 220 HR's. I'd much rather see the Sox pitching be their strong point. Hitting can generally be fixed easier through trades during the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Seattle did just fine after ARod and Griffey skipped town. Not to mention the Big Unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 i'd do Maggs for Percival and Erstad. that would solve two major problems -- left-handed hitting outfielder and stud closer. you'd be rolling the dice that Erstad could stay healthy, but his career seems to reflect that he plays well every other year. plus we could use a left-handed bat. Plug A Row into right and suddenly our outfield defense has gone from OK to very good. Percival has been around a good bit and thrown a s*** pot of innings, but he's a gamer. I love Maggs. But if he wants 15 or 16 million over four years, he's on crack. only a couple of teams that could pay that -- and the Sox are not close to being one of them. And I agree, it's a helluva lot easier to find a serviceable outfielder who can manufacture runs and play D than it is to find effective pitchers. We know KW loves Erstad. Almost had him for Garland and Singleton two years ago before Anaheim did a U-turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 SIXTY MILLION OVER 4 YEARS, IN A POST-CBA MARKET NO LESS???!!! That's Sammy Sosa (circa 1998-2001) money, for crying out loud! And at least Sammy is one of the most recognizeable and beloved figures in baseball/sports, both in US and internationally, and as such "gives back" his salary even if he doesn't produce. Meanwhile the slightly creepy Maggs has NO appeal. None. He is a a career 890 OPS hitter coming off a 99 RBI season! He didn't even hussle all that much in 2003! Every day something new with this cursed franchize. Put us out of our misery already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Maggs is a better team player than Manny Ramirez. I would rather have Magglio Ordonez on my team then Ramirez. Saying that though I don't see very many players worth $15M a year. I think it is going to take awhile before the agents and their player clients realize that no one has that kind of money to spend anymore. You can use $15M to build a pretty good team that will compete rathe than give it to one player and fall short of the prize. I hope Maggs stays, but I think all the rumors, reports, insider info, etc, point to somebody and probbaly more than one of our high priced players getting traded this off season. It will be interesting to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I'd much rather see the Sox pitching be their strong point. Hitting can generally be fixed easier through trades during the season. Like this past year? That worked real well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithFranklin Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Well with those budget numbers the chances of me picking up 4 season tickets is thin and none... I am beginning to think it is time for me to root for a team from another city... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 i'd do Maggs for Percival and Erstad. I think if the Sox trade both Maggs and Konehead they will resign Everett and Alomar: Lineup - 2B Alomar LF Lee 1B Thomas DH Everett CF Erstad 3B Crede SS Valentin RF Rowand C Alomar I would like it if Ozzie moves Thomas down in the order and bat Erstad 2nd, Lee 3rd and Thomas 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 That order is not that bad at all. Although I bet we could get a better RF then Rowand. Everett could play there, and then we could get a cheap pure DH. Maybe a Fulmer, etc. Or Spiezo at 1b, Thomas DH. We just need to be more flexible, and Im starting to think the only way this can be done is by getting rid of $20mil payroll through trades. Koch, Konerko, Maggs Some of them have to go. Sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 After reading the article, and knowing our payroll situation, I really think that we are talking about Percival OR Erstad, but not both of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I think if the Sox trade both Maggs and Konehead they will resign Everett and Alomar: Lineup - 2B Alomar LF Lee 1B Thomas DH Everett CF Erstad 3B Crede SS Valentin RF Rowand C Alomar I would like it if Ozzie moves Thomas down in the order and bat Erstad 2nd, Lee 3rd and Thomas 5th. I'd like to see the Sox resign Everett but it won't happen regardless of who we trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I'd like to see the Sox resign Everett but it won't happen regardless of who we trade. Yeah, I have to concur, as much as I liked the guy, Carl Everett, He Gawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I think it could be both as the Angels need starting pitching. The problem with this trade is we still have a poor rotation. Until we address starting pitching, these types of moves are just treading water. I would think with these moves, why not try and enter the Nomar race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnSoxFan Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Just say no to Sidney Ponson, my guess is he is a rotator cuff surgery within next full season, supposedly it is already frayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Well with those budget numbers the chances of me picking up 4 season tickets is thin and none... I am beginning to think it is time for me to root for a team from another city... If you think that way than leave. Don't be a fan. Sure the francise has had its problems, and there are many on this board that have been fans for decades and decades , but to say you think you should start cheering for another team from another city is ridiculous. Hey, what is that noise. Oh its the bandwagon train next stop you. Oh if you were joking use green sorry if this sound angry, but it pisses me off when someone say/types well I should start cheering for another team. If that is the thought, maybe you never were a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 for what it's worth, the new Baseball weekly sez that Everett has drawn interest from seven teams. The top three are Tampa, Detroit and Texas. Also sez the Twins could lose LaTroy, Shannon Stewart and Jacque Jones. And they are reportedly shopping AJ 'cause he is arbitration eligible and it's time to start making room for Joe Mauer. Bottom line: The best thing the Sox have going for them is money woes are going to squeeze the competition even more than us. Just have to trust KW to make some wise decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Just have to trust KW to make some wise decisions. God help us all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 I think it could be both as the Angels need starting pitching. The problem with this trade is we still have a poor rotation. Until we address starting pitching, these types of moves are just treading water. I would think with these moves, why not try and enter the Nomar race? The trade of Konerko to LA would help that in getting Perez. I also think Chuck Finley has something left in the tank and may now come back realizing he isn't going to get the high dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moochpuppy Posted November 12, 2003 Share Posted November 12, 2003 Also sez the Twins could lose LaTroy, Shannon Stewart and Jacque Jones. And they are reportedly shopping AJ 'cause he is arbitration eligible and it's time to start making room for Joe Mauer. The Cubs are to be pursuing that trade with the Twins for AJ. The Twins have also been shoping Radke and/or Milton in order to free up salary to maybe resign Hawkins and retain Stewart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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