southsider2k5 Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I don't know why people aren't seeing this as a supply and demand issue. It's a weak draft. Less players at the higher levels. Therefore, more negotiation to get the guys they want. In a stronger draft, some toolsy high school kid who needs work gets sassy, you move on to the next toolsy high school kid. That doesn't really play this year. Because we can see what the other 29 teams paid for their classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Just now, southsider2k5 said: Because we can see what the other 29 teams paid for their classes. The White Sox spent their whole allotment. I believe the issue is the Sox going over slot for some players, and punting on a couple of rounds to pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 50 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The White Sox spent their whole allotment. I believe the issue is the Sox going over slot for some players, and punting on a couple of rounds to pay for it. The issue seems to be what they paid for Saucke and Antonacci based on media rankings. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: The issue seems to be what they paid for Saucke and Antonacci based on media rankings. Saucke should use some of his over-slot money to get hammered tonight. I believe he turned 21 today. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, WestEddy said: I don't know why people aren't seeing this as a supply and demand issue. It's a weak draft. Less players at the higher levels. Therefore, more negotiation to get the guys they want. In a stronger draft, some toolsy high school kid who needs work gets sassy, you move on to the next toolsy high school kid. That doesn't really play this year. Yeah that would be interesting if every team was paying overslot for their college selections and not just the white sox and As, the premiere organizations in sports. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 1 minute ago, bmags said: Yeah that would be interesting if every team was paying overslot for their college selections and not just the white sox and As, the premiere organizations in sports. I wasn't even going to bother saying it again, but yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 What's the biggest issue with the financial allocation that people have? This is essentially what the White Sox did. Hagen Smith: $8 million at 5th overall. Caleb Bonemer: $3 million, equivalent to 29th overall Blake Larson $1.4 million, equivalent to #61 overall, 2nd round Casey Saucke :$857K, equivalent to 3rd round Nick McLain: $800K, equivalent to 3rd round. Sam Antonacci: $550K, equivalent to 4th round. Aaron Combs: $250K, equivalent to #219, 7th round Pierce George and Phil Fox: equivalent to #261, 9th round. Liam Paddack: $172K, just outside of round 10. In theory, they took one of the best players in the class at 5. Then they traded up for another first rounder. They added a 2nd, two 3rd's and a 4th but they didn't do anything equivalent to rounds 5, 6 or 8. I'm seeing people take issue with Saucke and Antonacci the most. That's fair. I understand why the White Sox didn't play it straight in this draft class though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Just now, bmags said: Yeah that would be interesting if every team was paying overslot for their college selections and not just the white sox and As, the premiere organizations in sports. Looks to me the White Sox had productive drafts in 2022 and 2023. Garrett Crochet is an All-Star who is the best pitcher on the market this TDL. Colson Montgomery and Noah Schultz were zigs when everybody else zagged. I'm good trusting Shirley and his team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 minutes ago, bmags said: Yeah that would be interesting if every team was paying overslot for their college selections and not just the white sox and As, the premiere organizations in sports. They were underslot in round 3 and went over in 4 and 5 but basically didn't get true 5th or 6th round players because of it. I'm still struggling to see what the issue is and I haven't seen another path presented. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: The issue seems to be what they paid for Saucke and Antonacci based on media rankings. You last week: You were confused about how they spent all their first 10 rounds given the selections! Then you found out that it was on overslotting for Saucke and Antonacci, and are tsk tsking anyone that points out its odd that the sox continuously overslot their college selections while other teams often don't. Stupid sox fans, taking media rankings over the word of our very talented front office. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Drafting is the least of our problems. It's pretty much the only thing we've done halfway decent over the last decade. It's pretty much everything else we're trash tier at. It's not like we're an elite drafting team, few are consistently, but if we did everything as competently as the draft we'd be a much easier franchise to follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 minutes ago, bmags said: You last week: You were confused about how they spent all their first 10 rounds given the selections! Then you found out that it was on overslotting for Saucke and Antonacci, and are tsk tsking anyone that points out its odd that the sox continuously overslot their college selections while other teams often don't. Stupid sox fans, taking media rankings over the word of our very talented front office. I was mostly confused because I didn't think they were paying any of the players in 6-10. I also wasn't expecting Bonemer to be quite that much. I think the amateur scouting department is pretty good. I'm not going to assume that I know more than them on Casey Saucke and Sam Antonacci. What if they took Saucke in round 3 and paid him $847K as an underslot and then took McLain in round 4 and paid him $800K as an overslot signing? Would it still be an issue. I just don't think it's a big deal as the class comes into focus. Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation on what they should've done instead. I have a feeling I'll be waiting awhile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 8 minutes ago, bmags said: Yeah that would be interesting if every team was paying over slot for their college selections and not just the white sox and As, the premiere organizations in sports. The Yankees went over slot to college selections at #2 and #6. The Reds went over slot to college picks at #4 and #5. The Braves went over slot to HS kids on #5 and #6, then punted 7-10. The Cards went over slot to college kids at #7-9. Those are just the teams I randomly picked who have reported their signings already. I think the Royals didn't go over slot to any college kids. I'm struggling to figure out what your point is, here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 7 minutes ago, bmags said: and are tsk tsking anyone that points out its odd that the sox continuously overslot their college selections while other teams often don't. But I've just shown that a small handful of teams I randomly looked at on MLB.com did over slot some college picks from 3-10. It looks like a pretty common practice this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said: I was mostly confused because I didn't think they were paying any of the players in 6-10. I also wasn't expecting Bonemer to be quite that much. I think the amateur scouting department is pretty good. I'm not going to assume that I know more than them on Casey Saucke and Sam Antonacci. What if they took Saucke in round 3 and paid him $847K as an underslot and then took McLain in round 4 and paid him $800K as an overslot signing? Would it still be an issue. I just don't think it's a big deal as the class comes into focus. Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation on what they should've done instead. I have a feeling I'll be waiting awhile. I think for a team that consistently fails to keep its farm depth at an acceptable level, they are not maximizing the budget to bring in as many strong players as possible. I think Shirley is fine at finding talent, but no scouting director is perfect and not pushing to have that extra $260k that went to college juniors in 4th and 5th rounds could have well been packaged to get another top 250 player or prep player they liked. And after the last 10 years, I really don't want to hear push back on how some little things aren't big deals. Because not being able to execute the little stuff like International classes one year, or maximizing the budget in a draft class, or selecting the right 40 man both adds up and shows you are unlikely to execute the big things. Let's just say I'm more optimistic on their trend of investing in tall, lower slot lefties than leading the pack in moving college talent down to their draft pick via overslotting and it paying off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 10 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The Yankees went over slot to college selections at #2 and #6. The Reds went over slot to college picks at #4 and #5. The Braves went over slot to HS kids on #5 and #6, then punted 7-10. The Cards went over slot to college kids at #7-9. Those are just the teams I randomly picked who have reported their signings already. I think the Royals didn't go over slot to any college kids. I'm struggling to figure out what your point is, here. Nobody cares about prep players going overslot, nobody here is mad about going overslot for bonemer and larson. The yankees sixth rounder was a draft eligible sophomore at LSU, so it makes sense why they would need to overslot. Peyton stovall was only 7k under in the 4th, and again, their fifth was a draft eligible sophomore, so they can go back to school with leverage. The white sox picks were college juniors, and they also damn near paid slot to a college senior. Those kids do not have the leverage others do, and I don't think the sox played this budget well. You are right about the cardinals though, I posted that earlier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 6 minutes ago, bmags said: I think for a team that consistently fails to keep its farm depth at an acceptable level, they are not maximizing the budget to bring in as many strong players as possible. I think Shirley is fine at finding talent, but no scouting director is perfect and not pushing to have that extra $260k that went to college juniors in 4th and 5th rounds could have well been packaged to get another top 250 player or prep player they liked. And after the last 10 years, I really don't want to hear push back on how some little things aren't big deals. Because not being able to execute the little stuff like International classes one year, or maximizing the budget in a draft class, or selecting the right 40 man both adds up and shows you are unlikely to execute the big things. Let's just say I'm more optimistic on their trend of investing in tall, lower slot lefties than leading the pack in moving college talent down to their draft pick via overslotting and it paying off. Jonathan Cannon is a big over slot success story. George Wolkow could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Just now, WestEddy said: Jonathan Cannon is a big over slot success story. George Wolkow could be. Well known college player George Wolkow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 6 minutes ago, bmags said: Nobody cares about prep players going overslot, nobody here is mad about going overslot for bonemer and larson. The yankees sixth rounder was a draft eligible sophomore at LSU, so it makes sense why they would need to overslot. Peyton stovall was only 7k under in the 4th, and again, their fifth was a draft eligible sophomore, so they can go back to school with leverage. The white sox picks were college juniors, and they also damn near paid slot to a college senior. Those kids do not have the leverage others do, and I don't think the sox played this budget well. You are right about the cardinals though, I posted that earlier. Well, it is a board for conversation, so I'll shut up about picking nits. I think the Sox knew who they want, and made sure to get them, even to the point of giving in on some negotiation just to solidify their pick. I agree that international scouting kind of sucks right now, and that narrows the margin of error in the draft. I still trust in Shirley and co. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 56 minutes ago, bmags said: I think for a team that consistently fails to keep its farm depth at an acceptable level, they are not maximizing the budget to bring in as many strong players as possible. I think Shirley is fine at finding talent, but no scouting director is perfect and not pushing to have that extra $260k that went to college juniors in 4th and 5th rounds could have well been packaged to get another top 250 player or prep player they liked. And after the last 10 years, I really don't want to hear push back on how some little things aren't big deals. Because not being able to execute the little stuff like International classes one year, or maximizing the budget in a draft class, or selecting the right 40 man both adds up and shows you are unlikely to execute the big things. Let's just say I'm more optimistic on their trend of investing in tall, lower slot lefties than leading the pack in moving college talent down to their draft pick via overslotting and it paying off. Skepticism of this franchise is always warranted and these are fair criticisms. I didn’t know much about McLain, Saucke and Antonacci as they came off the board. I trust the recent success of the area guys who recommended them though. Now we just need to see if they’re right. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I was mostly confused because I didn't think they were paying any of the players in 6-10. I also wasn't expecting Bonemer to be quite that much. I think the amateur scouting department is pretty good. I'm not going to assume that I know more than them on Casey Saucke and Sam Antonacci. What if they took Saucke in round 3 and paid him $847K as an underslot and then took McLain in round 4 and paid him $800K as an overslot signing? Would it still be an issue. I just don't think it's a big deal as the class comes into focus. Also, I'm still waiting for an explanation on what they should've done instead. I have a feeling I'll be waiting awhile. Why not take Sirota over McLain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishPrince34 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Sirota has some makeups issues reported by many publications. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 19 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Why not take Sirota over McLain? They think McLain is better apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 37 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said: Sirota has some makeups issues reported by many publications. So do Pham & Clevinger ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 20 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: They think McLain is better apparently. To be honest, my main concern with McLain & Antonacci is a lack of upside. Just worry that given the lack of positional depth in the minors, that we went after high floor guys who have little to no chance of being difference makers (which Hostetler also did quite a bit when we kicked off the rebuild). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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