ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: ...And Kerry Wood's 20 strikeout game was just a single game. Big whoop. A half season of dominance is still wondrous to watch. We don't have to pretend that what Crochet is doing is really no big deal, just to be obstinate and win an argument. It's a silly look. That's not the point. The point isn't that he isn't having a great year or isn't a great talent. Or that it isn't fun to watch. The point is that is with his injury history and use this year: 1. What is his value in a trade 2. Is he worth giving a long term contract to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 no way I give Crochet a 6 year deal, too risky, this is a lesson we were supposed to learn w/ Robert, Eloy, and Moncada yeah it sucks that he's gonna be on another team in a couple years, the most I'd go right now is probably 4 years with the first two being his arb years bought out, and i doubt his agent would agree to that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Tyler glasnow just got 140 million. In 8 years prior he threw 530 innings topping out at 120. Anyone who questions crochet value to the Sox can point to the 30 year old injury risk who just got 140 million. True, and he has already missed time. Just because he got that contract doesn't mean it was smart or that any team other than LA can afford to pay hom thay much to pitch part of a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You are lecturing a guy on injuries, injury history, and injury prediction who does this professionally and knows WAY more than all of the rest of Soxtalk combined on this topic. And I think I've been pretty respectful, and have just offered counter arguments. To downplay a dominant half season is silly. Dude made the All-Star team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: And I think I've been pretty respectful, and have just offered counter arguments. To downplay a dominant half season is silly. Dude made the All-Star team. You literally told the guy, who does this for a living, that he is "trying to win an argument". Yea that's pretty respectful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Just now, WestEddy said: And I think I've been pretty respectful, and have just offered counter arguments. To downplay a dominant half season is silly. Dude made the All-Star team. Again, the discussion isn't to downplay his accomplishments. As Ray Ray said he is having a season that few other pitchers have ever done. It great and great to watch. However, for the success of the team going forward, what is the best move for the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: That's not the point. The point isn't that he isn't having a great year or isn't a great talent. Or that it isn't fun to watch. The point is that is with his injury history and use this year: 1. What is his value in a trade 2. Is he worth giving a long term contract to. Just from what I've read in other places about injury recovery and work load recovery is that this might all hit him next season, where he loses a tick off his fastball, or whatnot. And maybe it won't. You keep asking the question, yes, it's all worth the risk, for the White Sox and for Crochet. Even slightly diminished for part of a season, Crochet is a rare talent, and the trading team has 2 more seasons to evaluate giving him a contract. If he's intact, and doing anything like his current results, I guess that teams will line up to throw their money at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: Again, the discussion isn't to downplay his accomplishments. As Ray Ray said he is having a season that few other pitchers have ever done. It great and great to watch. However, for the success of the team going forward, what is the best move for the team. I started out thinking they can extend him, but that would be something like 3/50, and we still might not be competitive in that window. In which case, I think they should trade him ASAP, get those prospects in our system and start working with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 5 minutes ago, SoxAce said: You literally told the guy, who does this for a living, that he is "trying to win an argument". Yea that's pretty respectful... Well, down playing Crochet's half year seemed silly and argumentative. And yes, it is respectful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Just from what I've read in other places about injury recovery and work load recovery is that this might all hit him next season, where he loses a tick off his fastball, or whatnot. And maybe it won't. You keep asking the question, yes, it's all worth the risk, for the White Sox and for Crochet. Even slightly diminished for part of a season, Crochet is a rare talent, and the trading team has 2 more seasons to evaluate giving him a contract. If he's intact, and doing anything like his current results, I guess that teams will line up to throw their money at him. I agree. It may hit him next year. However, he could also be overloaded this year. He is an excellent talent and it's up to the GMs to decide on his worth based on his history and use. The teams will need to weigh the risk of the possibility of him being unavailable. It's a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 10 minutes ago, SoxAce said: You literally told the guy, who does this for a living, that he is "trying to win an argument". Yea that's pretty respectful... Yeah, that's the part I was pointing out too, because obviously he wasn't trying to do the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Well, down playing Crochet's half year seemed silly and argumentative. And yes, it is respectful. To be clear, I've never downplayed his performance in any of the discussion. I've questioned whether it can be continued this year and into the future. Edited July 22 by ptatc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 2 minutes ago, ptatc said: I agree. It may hit him next year. However, he could also be overloaded this year. He is an excellent talent and it's up to the GMs to decide on his worth based on his history and use. The teams will need to weigh the risk of the possibility of him being unavailable. It's a gamble. I think that if the Sox don't trade him, he'll probably get 10 more 'starts' of 1-2 innings each, then get shut down. That gives him about 120+ innings. If they trade him, we can all argue about how the prospects are being brought along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, ptatc said: To be clear, I've never downplayed his performance in any of the discussion. I've questioned whether it can be continued this year and into the future. I took it that way, and I'm sorry for my reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: I think that if the Sox don't trade him, he'll probably get 10 more 'starts' of 1-2 innings each, then get shut down. That gives him about 120+ innings. If they trade him, we can all argue about how the prospects are being brought along. That would probably be the way they would handle it. Personally, I would shut him down for the year since the team is awful and I wouldn't want him to add that much stress on his body compared to his previous workload. Then add more next year. However, it doesn't appear they will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: I took it that way, and I'm sorry for my reaction. No worries. It probably came from me saying he has only done it for half a year. That was meant more to point out that he hasn't done it for a full year from a load perspective not that he has performed at a high level for "only" half a year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 46 minutes ago, ptatc said: Let's take a look at the injury history of these pitchers. Sale and deGrom with missed very significant time with injuries. Currently strider has pitched poorly this year and is out with an elbow injury. So if we look at the history of these pitchers who accomplished these feats, they are uncorn in talent but pretty much guaranteed to have injury riddled careers. Do you want to give these pitchers 6 year deals? Since 2010, sale has the 15th most ip in MLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 (edited) 58 minutes ago, ptatc said: That's not the point. The point isn't that he isn't having a great year or isn't a great talent. Or that it isn't fun to watch. The point is that is with his injury history and use this year: 1. What is his value in a trade 2. Is he worth giving a long term contract to. We're just talking in circles. If you think what crochet is doing is just another good half, I can't help. There are 8 instances i could find of 107 inning stretches matching crochets current stretch. In 25 years. Edited July 22 by Look at Ray Ray Run 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Jeez, the narrative was that GMs are waiting for the draft to be over until they pivot to the TDL. Will everything hold off until all the picks are signed? So we might really be looking at a 4-5 day TDL period. I guess that will be an exciting 4-5 days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: And tyler glasnow is worth 150 million 5 years older with as long an injury sheet. He's 6th on the k/bb rate behind the 5 I listed oddly enough. We're just talking in circles. If you think what crochet is doing is just another good half, I can't help. There are 8 instances i could find of 107 inning stretches matching crochets current stretch. In 25 years. Again, it's not that "it's a good half" or that he isn't a unicorn talent. It's with his history and current usage can he continue to stay healthy with continued use this year and into next year. And is it worth the risk to sign him to a long term deal with this history. The talent isn't in question. The question is can he stay healthy enough to justify keeping him and giving a deal or would they get more value from a trade with prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Jeez, the narrative was that GMs are waiting for the draft to be over until they pivot to the TDL. Will everything hold off until all the picks are signed? So we might really be looking at a 4-5 day TDL period. I guess that will be an exciting 4-5 days. It’s funny how this happens every year and GMs act like children and don’t get deals done until right before the deadline. I think it’s hilarious that these guys can’t agree on many deals until they are forced to by the deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 7 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Jeez, the narrative was that GMs are waiting for the draft to be over until they pivot to the TDL. Will everything hold off until all the picks are signed? So we might really be looking at a 4-5 day TDL period. I guess that will be an exciting 4-5 days. Just like any negotiations. They go down to the last second to try to get the "last, best, final offer" Frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 8 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Jeez, the narrative was that GMs are waiting for the draft to be over until they pivot to the TDL. Will everything hold off until all the picks are signed? So we might really be looking at a 4-5 day TDL period. I guess that will be an exciting 4-5 days. I don’t think signing the picks will take much time from GMs. I’m guessing right now is the normal slow dance of buyers and sellers both exchanging ridiculous proposals while looking for someone to pull a Perry Minasian and jump the market in an overly aggressive way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrittBurnsFan Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: Again, it's not that "it's a good half" or that he isn't a unicorn talent. It's with his history and current usage can he continue to stay healthy with continued use this year and into next year. And is it worth the risk to sign him to a long term deal with this history. The talent isn't in question. The question is can he stay healthy enough to justify keeping him and giving a deal or would they get more value from a trade with prospects. The problem is that the answer to that last point/question is that "we don't know"! And won't know unless it happens and we see it all play out. That is what makes all of this fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Lee is down to #39/46 of catchers in fWAR. Maldy 46/46. Has to be Quero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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