Trade thoughts

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

And yet he was qualified to be a MLB GM, something you’ve been arguing in this thread? Which is it? 

How can anyone defend anything in this organization, outside of Bannister’s job so far?  

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

He wasn't in charge of the amateur draft, international scouting, personnel, free agency, hiring a manager. I'd bet Getz didn't muscle his way in and get spies in the clubhouse. He wasn't the decision maker. 

He was heavily involved in the hiring of Pedro per Merkin

[fathom]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He was heavily involved in the hiring of Pedro per Merkin

And he didn’t object to keeping him around this year.  

[Y2Jimmy0]

7 minutes ago, fathom said:

And he didn’t object to keeping him around this year.  

I think Pedro would be gone already if it were up to Getz 

[soxfan49]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think Pedro would be gone already if it were up to Getz 

But Merkin said he played a significant role in his hiring

[caulfield12]

Fedde for De Vrieze Snelling or Lesko. Sox Pick 1/3.

Preller has no choice if he wants to make the WC. 

Darvish Mugrove out. 

King hitting innings highs. Vasquez still largely unproven but good recently.  Waldron has held his own.  But they are riding Cease now for all he's worth while waiting for Tacos return next month. 

Mazur just not ready to be relied upon in in a pennant race. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

14 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

But Merkin said he played a significant role in his hiring

So what? Does that mean he’s now incapable of recognizing the mistake and firing him? 

[Tnetennba]

2 hours ago, Johno said:

I just think Getz is so over his head, he just doesn’t know what to do.   i’m sure he’s shooting for the stars with his  trade request and when they say no, he just doesn’t know what to do.   Absolutely embarrassing.

He's in over his head and is an embarrassment, but not for the reasons you've stated. He can't make teams meet his demands. Embarrassing here would be selling Robert and Crochet for pennies on the dollar. The Pham's of the world will be gone soon enough, once buyers pivot to lesser needs.

[GreenSox]

The organization is a debacle because of bad drafts and a lazy international effort; Eloy, Andeson and Moncada turning to crap overnight;  and Hahnber's outrageous misuse of what were a lot of free agent dollars.  There were other wastes such as squandering 1/2 of Crochet's service time so Hahnber could ram him into the bullpen, optioning Kimbrel over Rodon, and others.   This wasn't Getz.

Getz did a lousy job putting this team together this year:  Maladando, Nicky Lopez - I mean, come on.  That's just not a serious effort.  He made several misjudgments in the bullpen.   But in the end, it's not debilitating because with better moves this team would have won, what, 60 games maybe?  None of this set the team back much (unlike many of Hahn's moves).  And big part of why this team is historically bad instead of just bad is the raging incompetent Pedro Grifol (handpicked by Hahn).
 

Now his job is to fix this mess that he inherited. He's got to get moving.  He can start by making great trades the next few days (kicking the can is not the answer) and just cutting bait of the known stiffs  and bring up the guys who have been hanging out a long while in AAA ( Julks, DeLoach, Colas, Sosa may not be the answer, but play them and let them prove it first).
 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

The organization is a debacle because of bad drafts and a lazy international effort; Eloy, Andeson and Moncada turning to crap overnight;  and Hahnber's outrageous misuse of what were a lot of free agent dollars.  There were other wastes such as squandering 1/2 of Crochet's service time so Hahnber could ram him into the bullpen, optioning Kimbrel over Rodon, and others.   This wasn't Getz.

Getz did a lousy job putting this team together this year:  Maladando, Nicky Lopez - I mean, come on.  That's just not a serious effort.  He made several misjudgments in the bullpen.   But in the end, it's not debilitating because with better moves this team would have won, what, 60 games maybe?  None of this set the team back much (unlike many of Hahn's moves).  And big part of why this team is historically bad instead of just bad is the raging incompetent Pedro Grifol (handpicked by Hahn).
 

Now his job is to fix this mess that he inherited. He's got to get moving.  He can start by making great trades the next few days (kicking the can is not the answer) and just cutting bait of the known stiffs  and bring up the guys who have been hanging out a long while in AAA ( Julks, DeLoach, Colas, Sosa may not be the answer, but play them and let them prove it first).
 

The problem is with the exception of fedde, who I'd argue was a rental always to acquire players, none of the moves he made with the future in mind have panned out. The fletcher's of the world are an indictment on Getz player model and evaluation. It's consistent throughout the "undervalued" (in his eyes) markets he targets. 

[soxfan49]

21 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

So what? Does that mean he’s now incapable of recognizing the mistake and firing him? 

It surely doesn't mean he's capable of recognizing what a good manager looks like

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

He's in over his head and is an embarrassment, but not for the reasons you've stated. He can't make teams meet his demands. Embarrassing here would be selling Robert and Crochet for pennies on the dollar. The Pham's of the world will be gone soon enough, once buyers pivot to lesser needs.

He's marketing Crochet as a TOR starter who can pitch a full season plus. Crochet isn't that right now, so he'll probably hold out until he is. He's marketing Robert as a 5 WAR CF who is currently injured, and not performing at that level. He'll probably hold onto Robert until he's healed, and put him out there again. 

If teams don't want to pay TOR starter prices for a guy that's on an innings limit. Perhaps you can tell us the magic sales tactic that will start the Oriole prospects to come spilling forth from their minor league system. 

[chitownsportsfan]

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The problem is with the exception of fedde, who I'd argue was a rental always to acquire players, none of the moves he made with the future in mind have panned out. The fletcher's of the world are an indictment on Getz player model and evaluation. It's consistent throughout the "undervalued" (in his eyes) markets he targets. 

Not only that but they wasted a throwaway year and still didn't find out much about Colas, Sosa and a couple other guys. It's largely been an utter waste of a season and a disasterous start to any sort of "Getz era".

Not only are you fielding what is likely the worst modern team of all time, you did so by signing a bunch of vets that at best will get you a couple lotto tickets, assuming Getz's slow ass manages to find some takers for them.

It's a D- effort, at best.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Tony said:

And yet he was qualified to be a MLB GM, something you’ve been arguing in this thread? Which is it? 

Only the good things, not the bad.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Not only that but they wasted a throwaway year and still didn't find out much about Colas, Sosa and a couple other guys. It's largely been an utter waste of a season and a disasterous start to any sort of "Getz era".

Not only are you fielding what is likely the worst modern team of all time, you did so by signing a bunch of vets that at best will get you a couple lotto tickets, assuming Getz's slow ass manages to find some takers for them.

It's a D- effort, at best.

[Ding]

[ron883]

3 hours ago, PaleAleSox said:

I'm really confused on what you guys want from him.

Trades 

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The problem is with the exception of fedde, who I'd argue was a rental always to acquire players, none of the moves he made with the future in mind have panned out. The fletcher's of the world are an indictment on Getz player model and evaluation. It's consistent throughout the "undervalued" (in his eyes) markets he targets. 

While that's true, he didn't give up a lot to get Fletcher, De Loach or Julks. (oh I guess Mena could be something).  But then again, why trade for them if you won't play them?  These guys were all as major league ready as they were ever going to be.  Heck Julks is on the main roster and Grifol refuses to play him.    
And as far as I can tell Charlotte is like some black hole that just sucks in players; does anyone  ever actually improve by playing there?

And are they going to continue with the Benitendi dog and pony show for the next 3 seasons?  I don't care about the 25% chance that he hits .750 OPS somewhere else.   He's not doing that here.  DFA him (and a lot of others). 

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

While that's true, he didn't give up a lot to get Fletcher, De Loach or Julks. (oh I guess Mena could be something).  But then again, why trade for them if you won't play them?  These guys were all as major league ready as they were ever going to be.  Heck Julks is on the main roster and Grifol refuses to play him.    
And as far as I can tell Charlotte is like some black hole that just sucks in players; does anyone  ever actually improve by playing there?

And are they going to continue with the Benitendi dog and pony show for the next 3 seasons?  I don't care about the 25% chance that he hits .750 OPS somewhere else.   He's not doing that here.  DFA him (and a lot of others). 

JR will wait until 2027, remember Grandal foundering on the rocks his last two seasons with zero return? 

Keuchel one of the few exceptions of more than $5 million eaten, along with Leury. 

Benintendi would be $50 millionish. 

[Chicago White Sox]

21 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

While that's true, he didn't give up a lot to get Fletcher, De Loach or Julks. (oh I guess Mena could be something).  But then again, why trade for them if you won't play them?  These guys were all as major league ready as they were ever going to be.  Heck Julks is on the main roster and Grifol refuses to play him.    
And as far as I can tell Charlotte is like some black hole that just sucks in players; does anyone  ever actually improve by playing there?

And are they going to continue with the Benitendi dog and pony show for the next 3 seasons?  I don't care about the 25% chance that he hits .750 OPS somewhere else.   He's not doing that here.  DFA him (and a lot of others). 

He gave up a top 10 org prospect for Fletcher and a potentially very valuable, controllable reliever for DeLoach (and others).  The evaluations on both guys look highly suspect at the moment and it’s just wild that both are rotting in AAA as we speak.  That being said, I think he did fairly well in the Cease trade and the Fedde signing was obviously a HR.  But generally speaking, we have wasted a ton of playing time on positional guys who have little to no “flip” upside.  I will never understand the point of trading for 26 & 25 year old prospects if you weren’t going to give them actual opportunities to become long-term contributors.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He gave up a top 10 org prospect for Fletcher and a potentially very valuable, controllable reliever for DeLoach (and others).  The evaluations on both guys look highly suspect at the moment and it’s just wild that both are rotting in AAA as we speak.  That being said, I think he did fairly well in the Cease trade and the Fedde signing was obviously a HR.  But generally speaking, we have wasted a ton of playing time on positional guys who have little to no “flip” upside.  I will never understand the point of trading for 26 & 25 year old prospects if you weren’t going to give them actual opportunities to become long-term contributors.

So I know I was one of the few that didn't have a problem with trying to pick up older blocked guy who still had a ton of control,  but it is nuts to get them and then instantly move to block them.

[Chicago White Sox]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

So I know I was one of the few that didn't have a problem with trying to pick up older blocked guy who still had a ton of control,  but it is nuts to get them and then instantly move to block them.

And what’s wild is due to injuries, we almost immediately had OF needs and they basically went out and blocked these guys.  Now, based on their AAA results this year, they probably haven’t warranted a shot, but that again points to poor evaluations on these guys.

[GreenSox]

14 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And what’s wild is due to injuries, we almost immediately had OF needs and they basically went out and blocked these guys.  Now, based on their AAA results this year, they probably haven’t warranted a shot, but that again points to poor evaluations on these guys.

Yes, it was senseless to acquire them and not play them.
I don't trust anything out of Charlotte.   That place needs a makeover. Certainly can trust any statistic; maybe they can watch/scout the players and make judgments that way.

I'd rather them move the players onto the major league club straight from AA.

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Yes, it was senseless to acquire them and not play them.
I don't trust anything out of Charlotte.   That place needs a makeover. Certainly can trust any statistic; maybe they can watch/scout the players and make judgments that way.

I'd rather them move the players onto the major league club straight from AA.

Well luckily for us we none of our prospects are hitting in Charlotte so we can trust the stats ?

[caulfield12]

58 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Yes, it was senseless to acquire them and not play them.
I don't trust anything out of Charlotte.   That place needs a makeover. Certainly can trust any statistic; maybe they can watch/scout the players and make judgments that way.

I'd rather them move the players onto the major league club straight from AA.

The same team with the least amount of scouts of any team in baseball right now?   Good luck.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And what’s wild is due to injuries, we almost immediately had OF needs and they basically went out and blocked these guys.  Now, based on their AAA results this year, they probably haven’t warranted a shot, but that again points to poor evaluations on these guys.

Now it's Senzel blocking Ramos/Sosa.

Fletcher blocked by Sheets and everyone else thrown at RF, guys like Grossman and Sheets.

Pillar's value wasted...one of the few vets to overperform.

Colas in the doghouse or blocked.

Montgomery, Baldwin, Ja.Gonzalez and Sosa blocked by guys like Lopez, Mendick and DeJong.  At least DeJong will be moving on, in theory.

Pham blocking younger guys like Julks.

Cronin's value totally wasted.

Benintendi should just be sent home and told to rest mentally.

Still would be better off with Mena for the long-term.  Fletcher clearly a 4/5 OF, usual type of complementary guy with a limited tool chest, not a star in the least, by ANY stretch of the imagination.

Burger's value wasted with Eder falling backwards from prospect status.

 

Burger and Robert would have at least provided 2 of the 4 power guys in the middle of the lineup for the next three years, and a little bit of excitement at least like CAGS will for KC.

For example, KC had something like 4-5 guys in the starting line-up tonight with sub 700 OPS numbers.  Obviously Witt, Perez and all the pitching additions made all the difference in the world, along with Pasquantino returning to the line-up.  Their OF has actually been the worst statistically in all of baseball, pretty much.