caulfield12 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: Yeah, how do the cardinals give up only edman and get fedde and pham? I'm not sure edman will ever play much with his weird wrist injury. The cardinals killed it here. The Dodgers also get 17-year-old right-hander Oliver Gonzalez from the Cardinals. Beware the Dodgers' intl scouting prowess. Let's see where the Korean LHP we gifted them with intl bonus pool money and now this kid end up eventually. Oliver Gonzalez, RHP Age: 17 "The Cardinals signed Gonzalez out of Panama this past January for $400,000. The projectable righthander showed advanced pitchability for someone his age and has already added several ticks of velocity to his fastball, which has peaked at 93 mph this season in the Dominican Summer League. He backs his fastball with a mid-70s curveball and a low-80s changeup. His frame, feel to pitch and present stuff combine to give Gonzalez the look of a starter, albeit one who is a long way from reaching his ceiling." ba.com Edited July 29 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie for Manager Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Found out what Getz had to eat this morning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Tommy Edman is the exact type of player that will keep me from ever fully buying into advanced analytics. The idea that a guy that, outside of a handful of outlier hot months, can’t maintain a .700 OPs is a valuable asset is crazy to me. Nice bench utility guy, sure, but that’s not that hard to find or valuable. And he’s not even cheap or under long term control, just bizarre to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 8 minutes ago, ptatc said: Yeah, how do the cardinals give up only edman and get fedde and pham? I'm not sure edman will ever play much with his weird wrist injury. The cardinals killed it here. First time in SoxTalk history nobody will go on the record as liking this trade or thinking the Sox somehow "won" the trade, day of the move armchair analysis-wise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 18 minutes ago, Jake said: Oh boy, let me see this Statcast data that shows Vargas will be unable to hit in the future. So far all I see is Statcast data showing he's gotten basically exactly what he's deserved so far in MLB (which, to be fair, is not much) and Statcast data showing he was almost the best hitter in all of AAA. There’s no sugar-coating this deal, try as you might. The Sox should have done better than Vargas as the headliner. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Tommy Edman is the exact type of player that will keep me from ever fully buying into advanced analytics. The idea that a guy that, outside of a handful of outlier hot months, can’t maintain a .700 OPs is a valuable asset is crazy to me. Nice bench utility guy, sure, but that’s not that hard to find or valuable. And he’s not even cheap or under long term control, just bizarre to me. Eckstein has to be next Sox manager... or McEwing. Or Jose Oquendo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: He's bottom third in literally every offensive stat other than chase and whiff rate. That would be fine if he was a defensive oriented CF or SS. But he's a DH/LF that hits righty. His xwOBA is .287. ZIPS thinks he's a 1.5 WAR player. We just traded for another borderline starter -- at best. It's such a stupid use of everything: opportunity cost being the biggest one. You shot your load on a guy that is he pans out is like a decent regular that is poor defensively and hits righty. Great, you've turned a 120 loss team into a 118 loss team. This isn't at all the type of guy we should be targeting, regardless of how you feel about him as a player. Well the Statcast data looks similar to the back of the baseball card, which seems to show in the past he didn't hit well enough. I guess I don't see anything so conclusive about the future. Nothing jumping out that screams "fatal flaw" to me at least with the bat. Good contact tool, seems to have good at bats, keeps the ball off the ground. Just not doing enough damage. No, he's probably not someone with a perennial all-star ceiling but the Sox also need guys who are just decent. If Vargas averages 2 WAR per season until he reaches free agency that is an awesome outcome IMO. And that's not just grading on a curve for the Sox, that's any team. Winners are made out of assembling a critical mass of solid players. And by the way, the guy we traded is a 31 year old with 4.1 career WAR and a 3.77 xERA in his breakout season...which might have informed the thinking of competing GMs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 minute ago, Jake said: Well the Statcast data looks similar to the back of the baseball card, which seems to show in the past he didn't hit well enough. I guess I don't see anything so conclusive about the future. Nothing jumping out that screams "fatal flaw" to me at least with the bat. Good contact tool, seems to have good at bats, keeps the ball off the ground. Just not doing enough damage. No, he's probably not someone with a perennial all-star ceiling but the Sox also need guys who are just decent. If Vargas averages 2 WAR per season until he reaches free agency that is an awesome outcome IMO. And that's not just grading on a curve for the Sox, that's any team. Winners are made out of assembling a critical mass of solid players. And by the way, the guy we traded is a 31 year old with 4.1 career WAR and a 3.77 xERA in his breakout season...which might have informed the thinking of competing GMs. You can sign 2 WAR players in FA when you're in your winning window. Anyways, I hope he gets hotter than s%*#. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 3 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Tommy Edman is the exact type of player that will keep me from ever fully buying into advanced analytics. The idea that a guy that, outside of a handful of outlier hot months, can’t maintain a .700 OPs is a valuable asset is crazy to me. Nice bench utility guy, sure, but that’s not that hard to find or valuable. And he’s not even cheap or under long term control, just bizarre to me. For the Dodgers, I think they are just seeing him as likely far superior to their in-house alternatives at multiple positions where they're dealing with injuries — and they have good reason to be thinking a lot about the short term right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 So Pham's entire tenure here was worthless, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 3 minutes ago, Jake said: Well the Statcast data looks similar to the back of the baseball card, which seems to show in the past he didn't hit well enough. I guess I don't see anything so conclusive about the future. Nothing jumping out that screams "fatal flaw" to me at least with the bat. Good contact tool, seems to have good at bats, keeps the ball off the ground. Just not doing enough damage. No, he's probably not someone with a perennial all-star ceiling but the Sox also need guys who are just decent. If Vargas averages 2 WAR per season until he reaches free agency that is an awesome outcome IMO. And that's not just grading on a curve for the Sox, that's any team. Winners are made out of assembling a critical mass of solid players. And by the way, the guy we traded is a 31 year old with 4.1 career WAR and a 3.77 xERA in his breakout season...which might have informed the thinking of competing GMs. Where does his xWOBA rank amongst PCL hitters this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 The ONLY way I could possibly TRY talking myself into liking this is with the following logic: We have shared spring training facilities with the Dodgers for years now so I’m sure we are familiar with all the pieces we got in return. Our scouting department must have valued these guys highly and believe they can turn them into dudes. However, I won’t walk down that road because this is the White Sox scouting department and “player development” staff we’re talking about here. FUCKING UGLY. I will never understand why Getz didn’t make St. Louis include prospects not will I ever understand why he left better offers on the table. Three of your trade chips including one of your best for 3.5 minor leaguers… absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Just now, chitownsportsfan said: You can sign 2 WAR players in FA when you're in your winning window. Anyways, I hope he gets hotter than s%*#. The lesson I've learned of the past 6 or so years of White Sox baseball is that maybe you can't just go out and easily sign 2 WAR players on the cheap. And that's not 100% a Hahn/Reinsdorf/etc. criticism, FWIW...the guys reaching free agency as of late really stink with a few exceptions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Just now, Quin said: So Pham's entire tenure here was worthless, right? Yes. Just like Getzs and Pedro’s and most of JRs. Just now, Quin said: So Pham's entire tenure here was worthless, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Just now, Quin said: So Pham's entire tenure here was worthless, right? Yeah, we effectively benched some combination of Colas, Fletcher, and/or DeLoach so that we could send cash to the Cards to take him. 4 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 9 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Tommy Edman is the exact type of player that will keep me from ever fully buying into advanced analytics. The idea that a guy that, outside of a handful of outlier hot months, can’t maintain a .700 OPs is a valuable asset is crazy to me. Nice bench utility guy, sure, but that’s not that hard to find or valuable. And he’s not even cheap or under long term control, just bizarre to me. He also had wrist surgery and probably won't play this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 minute ago, hi8is said: The ONLY way I could possibly TRY talking myself into liking this is with the following logic: We have shared spring training facilities with the Dodgers for years now so I’m sure we are familiar with all the pieces we got in return. Our scouting department must have valued these guys highly and believe they can turn them into dudes. However, I won’t walk down that road because this is the White Sox scouting department and “player development” staff we’re talking about here. FUCKING UGLY. I will never understand why Getz didn’t make St. Louis include prospects not will I ever understand why he left better offers on the table. Three of your trade chips including one of your best for 3.5 minor leaguers… absurd. He likes 19 year olds because it buys him more time. But to think the White Sox are going to get these guys to hit is insane. Sammy Zavala is putting up Benintendi numbers in A ball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said: Where does his xWOBA rank amongst PCL hitters this year? I can't filter by PCL/IL, but of all AAA hitters who have seen as many pitches as him, he's tied for 8th (with Addison Barger) out of 292 qualified players. Below are those who have a higher xwOBA than him (Dingler is at .403, Vargas at .382). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 2 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said: Reminds me of the Frazier/Kahnle/Robertson trade. That was the worst trade in Sox history at the time of it happening but I think this may pass it. Wow what an awful return. I agree with the comparison; it's too early in Getz' career to make a lazy trade like that. But it was far from the worst trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Just now, ptatc said: He also had wrist surgery and probably won't play this year. He’s playing in the minors next week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 1 minute ago, Jake said: I can't filter by PCL/IL, but of all AAA hitters who have seen as many pitches as him, he's tied for 8th (with Addison Barger) out of 292 qualified players. Below are those who have a higher xwOBA than him (Dingler is at .403, Vargas at .382). He’s a future star for the Charlotte Knights. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Article on CBS Sports has graded the trade: Cardinals...A Dodgers....A White Sox...D 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCsoxfan Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 Stop supporting this team! The absolute bare requirement of loyalty should be that the organization actually tries! Trying means putting your best foot forward in terms of front office talent, resources, etc. Unless you like watching live car wrecks, do not support this dumpster fire. You all are too smart, loyal, and fun to continue with this BS! 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 4 hours ago, Harry Chappas said: Was Bummer trade a haul......haul is not necessarily good. Haul and myth are interchangeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 For the record, I am in agreement that it seems like STL does bafflingly well in this deal which suggests to me the Sox may have left something on the table. That said, it is not striking me as a trade that we will be looking back years from now as shockingly bad. Partly because the only real downside for the Sox is opportunity cost which we can never never truly quantify, but also just that my assessment is there's some chance the Sox clearly end up "winning" it by some measure despite the fact it looks like they could have gotten more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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