Bob Sacamano Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said: So Getz passed on Twins #5 prospect and MLB’s #92 prospect Luke Keaschall, who is likely moving up the chart with the way he is hitting. He can also play 2B and CF, while Vargas can’t play any position. Getz passed on this kid for Vargas because he didn’t want Fedde in the division for next season, when the Sox will be terrible yet again? Good god, Getz is fucking horrible. That about sums it up, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: That about sums it up, yes. If this Luke Keaschall offer is true, we have the worst and dumbest GM in baseball. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nardiwashere Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I don't buy the division thing. It makes no sense since next year won't matter. If they didn't want to trade within their division, why were they even having talks with the Twins? I am assuming they just preferred Vargas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: If this Luke Keaschall offer is true, we have the worst and dumbest GM in baseball. I originally was thinking maybe Fedde just didn't have the value we thought but it now seems more apparent they just really liked Vargas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 33 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: ? He's played 51 games in AA with an .870 OPS lol I apparently can not read. In my defense BP on a phone is not great to look at. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Just now, T R U said: I originally was thinking maybe Fedde just didn't have the value we thought but it now seems more apparent they just really liked Vargas. The original talk everyone here agreed on was that he was worth a backend MLB top 100 and a lesser prospect. Even if the Twins weren’t offering a second lesser prospect with Keaschall, I would have been much happier with this offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said: I don't buy the division thing. It makes no sense since next year won't matter. If they didn't want to trade within their division, why were they even having talks with the Twins? I am assuming they just preferred Vargas. It was mentioned by another reporter, and prior to the deadline. Not just this Twitter account. Edited August 1 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: The original talk everyone here agreed on was that he was worth a backend MLB top 100 and a lesser prospect. Even if the Twins weren’t offering a second lesser prospect with Keaschall, I would have been much happier with this offer. Yeah I just looked that guy up, that would have been an awesome return for Fedde. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 1 minute ago, T R U said: Yeah I just looked that guy up, that would have been an awesome return for Fedde. His bat has been crazy good so far and he steals bases. And he was a 2nd round pick so the talent was expected. https://www.milb.com/player/luke-keaschall-807712 Edited August 1 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 46 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: If this Luke Keaschall offer is true, we have the worst and dumbest GM in baseball. IMO depends on what other pieces were involved. Remember even though what we got was light, there were still two other guys in there which according to some in the scouting community have decent upside. I agree that Keaschall is prolly more valuable than Vargas as a headliner, but MIN would need to still add pieces. Keep in mind also Getz was prolly freaking out trying to add MLB ready bats for the 2025 team because they sure as hell aren't gonna sign like 4-5 FA bats with money so they needed to get someone ready to hit for 2025 on the cheap. They'll prolly hope that by next spring Montgomery has figured things out (or his back issue is better), start him at SS, Ramos at 3B, Quero at C along with Lee, Vaughn at 1B, Vargas in LF, and maybe get some real good prospects for CF/RF/2B in the offseason trades and/or sign a short term major leaguer as a bridge for those roles. If Robert hasn't established more value, he will start at CF again obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 (edited) 37 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: IMO depends on what other pieces were involved. Remember even though what we got was light, there were still two other guys in there which according to some in the scouting community have decent upside. I agree that Keaschall is prolly more valuable than Vargas as a headliner, but MIN would need to still add pieces. Keep in mind also Getz was prolly freaking out trying to add MLB ready bats for the 2025 team because they sure as hell aren't gonna sign like 4-5 FA bats with money so they needed to get someone ready to hit for 2025 on the cheap. They'll prolly hope that by next spring Montgomery has figured things out (or his back issue is better), start him at SS, Ramos at 3B, Quero at C along with Lee, Vaughn at 1B, Vargas in LF, and maybe get some real good prospects for CF/RF/2B in the offseason trades and/or sign a short term major leaguer as a bridge for those roles. If Robert hasn't established more value, he will start at CF again obviously. Keaschall is three years younger than Vargas and also would have had a sixth year of control, not just five like Vargas. The Sox probably still could have gotten those two prospects from the Dodgers for Kopech in a direct trade with them. Getz is insane if he thinks adding Vargas was important for the present when the Sox have no one ready at so many other positions. Keaschall would have made much more sense since the Sox are still waiting for other guys to be ready like Montgomery and Quero, and perhaps Ramos. Edited August 1 by WhiteSox2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 (edited) Still feels like Vargas could be had in a buy-low deal, not for your best trade chip that you are trying to sell high on. Would have preferred that Twins player (I assume you probably could have grabbed a 19-year old or two in that deal as well). Edited August 2 by Bob Sacamano 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 On 7/30/2024 at 5:54 AM, ChiSox59 said: Fairly certain Sox just picked up a little bit of Pham's $500k assignment bonus for being traded. Its probably safe to assume Pham had basically no surplus value and was in fact just a throw in. Didn't Pham also have some incentive bonuses in his contract also ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Didn't Pham also have some incentive bonuses in his contract also ? Yes. “May earn additional $1.5M in performance bonuses” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 I can see where the Sox talked themselves into Vargas. They were asking for a top 50 prospect, Vargas had been that. Keaschall is not that highly regarded and he’s a 2b. If you don’t think the bloom is off the rise with Vargas, maybe you talk yourself into him. I never liked the player when he was a top 50 prospect, so as a failed ex-prospect with no defensive position, I really don’t like him. But I am just a fan. Hopefully Sox scouts are way smarter than me. I have never seen Keaschall play. Maybe his numbers are a product of the Texas League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Just now, Timmy U said: I can see where the Sox talked themselves into Vargas. They were asking for a top 50 prospect, Vargas had been that. Keaschall is not that highly regarded and he’s a 2b. If you don’t think the bloom is off the rise with Vargas, maybe you talk yourself into him. I never liked the player when he was a top 50 prospect, so as a failed ex-prospect with no defensive position, I really don’t like him. But I am just a fan. Hopefully Sox scouts are way smarter than me. I have never seen Keaschall play. Maybe his numbers are a product of the Texas League. Questionable lol 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 On 7/31/2024 at 8:45 AM, Chisoxfn said: Now seeing the Flaherty deal - I guess one question is - who was worth more, Flaherty or Fedde. But with that in mind - I would probably argue Flaherty had more value - given he has a long term track record where he flashed vs. Fedde being a one year wonder. Both have been very good this year though - Flaherty has a much better ERA and FIP this season and track record. It wasn't like Flaherty got a Top 100 prospect. It seems like the reality is the market for these guys (in fairness Flaherty is a rental vs. Fedde) was not what anyone thought it was. So as I look at that, while I still think they got a guy less, I don't think ultimately the Fedde deal was as bad as I previously thought (unless the Sox wanted to roll the dice and keep him rest of this year and through the trade deadline in which case maybe they get one extra guy or something else). It was a terrible deal.When a guy has a good track record it's all about what have you done lately like with Cease. It's a negotiating tactic to drive the price down . The Fedde deal was not just a Fedde deal it was a Kopech and Pham deal too. How could Edman a guy who hadn't played all year because of injury get you Fedde and Pham? Obviously the Cards wanted Pham since he's played all 3 games since they got him and Fedde goes right into their starting rotation as a huge piece to their playoff and World Series aspirations. Fedde should've been worth more then the Sox got back for all 3 players. No way should they have been packaged together .How they got away with just parting with an injured Edman is just bizarre. Couple that with a trade with the Twins not getting off the starting blocks but the starting block supposedly included BA 54th rated hitting prospect Luke Keaschall , you have to wonder how more talks with the Twins could have progressed had the Sox not clenched their cheeks about trading in division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 55 minutes ago, Timmy U said: I can see where the Sox talked themselves into Vargas. They were asking for a top 50 prospect, Vargas had been that. Keaschall is not that highly regarded and he’s a 2b. If you don’t think the bloom is off the rise with Vargas, maybe you talk yourself into him. I never liked the player when he was a top 50 prospect, so as a failed ex-prospect with no defensive position, I really don’t like him. But I am just a fan. Hopefully Sox scouts are way smarter than me. I have never seen Keaschall play. Maybe his numbers are a product of the Texas League. Now the thing is - if the reality is the Sox advanced scouting missed on Vargas, than we have a problem. This gets into the real issue with the Sox. In this era - if you aren't going to spend big on payroll (and JR as much as I can complain about his spending - he's consistent and any GM who works for him should know what JR's constraints are). With that said - he isn't horrifically cheap - he just isn't going to go 5+ years and massive money on pretty much anyone...you got to know that going in. That also means you need to leverage the resources in different ways and make it clear to him - spend money on baseball people, advanced scouts, development areas, etc. Fund it by being cheap with MLB players in the first few years (with JR you know you have to do it that way) - but make those infastructure investments to get that part of the operation right and when you do - you will see the benefits emerge on the major league side and can than start to actually pivot and run things the right way. There are no quick fixes though - but I at least appreciated Sox went for some guys further along. Not saying we have any proof to think we can develop the position guys - but I'm hoping we see another wave of hiring as the season ends again where we see the franchise infuse more talent and more individuals into the scouting and development ranks (last year there was some - Bannister being the notable one - but a lot more has to happen - including a major relook on the international front). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: It was a terrible deal.When a guy has a good track record it's all about what have you done lately like with Cease. It's a negotiating tactic to drive the price down . The Fedde deal was not just a Fedde deal it was a Kopech and Pham deal too. How could Edman a guy who hadn't played all year because of injury get you Fedde and Pham? Obviously the Cards wanted Pham since he's played all 3 games since they got him and Fedde goes right into their starting rotation as a huge piece to their playoff and World Series aspirations. Fedde should've been worth more then the Sox got back for all 3 players. No way should they have been packaged together .How they got away with just parting with an injured Edman is just bizarre. Couple that with a trade with the Twins not getting off the starting blocks but the starting block supposedly included BA 54th rated hitting prospect Luke Keaschall , you have to wonder how more talks with the Twins could have progressed had the Sox not clenched their cheeks about trading in division. I agree with you - I would have much preferred Keaschall if it was on the table and I'm not worried about an in division trade of Fedde. Sox aren't contending next year and Fedde is NOT a superstar who is going to beat the Sox up for the next 5 years. Zero reason to not maximize value there - presuming the above report was true. Now its on Getz and the scouting staff who decided that Vargas > Keaschall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 1 minute ago, Chisoxfn said: I agree with you - I would have much preferred Keaschall if it was on the table and I'm not worried about an in division trade of Fedde. Sox aren't contending next year and Fedde is NOT a superstar who is going to beat the Sox up for the next 5 years. Zero reason to not maximize value there - presuming the above report was true. Now its on Getz and the scouting staff who decided that Vargas > Keaschall. It just makes me wonder had talks progress who else might have come along with Keaschall . All water under the bridge at this point but it does provide a wider perspective on that comes from more knowledge or hand me down knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 Since everyone loves to point out when former Sox do well, Fedde is getting smoked in his first Cards start. 5 ER and he’s not thru the 2nd inning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 37 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Since everyone loves to point out when former Sox do well, Fedde is getting smoked in his first Cards start. 5 ER and he’s not thru the 2nd inning. Too bad, don't ever want to see the Cubs win. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said: Since everyone loves to point out when former Sox do well, Fedde is getting smoked in his first Cards start. 5 ER and he’s not thru the 2nd inning. Karma for Cards not giving up anything in the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 https://www.mlb.com/news/pipeline-inbox-can-coby-mayo-stick-at-3rd-with-o-s-another-holliday-on-deck?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: https://www.mlb.com/news/pipeline-inbox-can-coby-mayo-stick-at-3rd-with-o-s-another-holliday-on-deck?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage Interesting to see Callis say he'd take Vargas over Norby rather easily. I don't think this deal is panned nearly as badly by Sox fans if Fedde went to the O's with the Sox getting back Norby + Perez and Albertus. Still probably feels a player light with Kopech and Pham, but I think the narrative wouldn't be quite as negative. Would sure be nice to see Vargas look like he belongs the next couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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