Just come out and say it like a man

[BrandoFan]

I really'd like to know who said that Maggs is looking for 4 year/60 mill-type deal after 2004.

 

I mean I could understand if he was 25 and just entering his prime, or was coming off a couple of 1000 OPS seasons....He had 99 RBI in 2003 playing full season, people!

 

Since these numbers are so outrageous, in a post-CBA environment especially, I guess there is only one explanation for it: Maggs wants out so bad he is willing to bluff.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm guessing him and his agent, but he's a nut if he thinks he will get that when Vlad won't even get that kind of money. I heard Gammons say that even if Matsui comes to the majors he won't get 7 mill..it will be likely around what the Sox paid Jose.

[BrandoFan]

I heard Gammons say that even if Matsui comes to the majors he won't get 7 mill..it will be likely around what the Sox paid Jose

 

Yeah, what was up that that? Even I think they pretty much gave Jose 2 mill too much and I am arguably his biggest fan.

 

Back to Maggs....15 Mill is about 5-6 Mill more than he is worth based on 2003 season and recent salary trends.

 

Am I the only one who sees through Maggs' veil and thinks he is a bit on the creepy side?

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah, what was up that that? Even I think they pretty much gave Jose 2 mill too much and I am arguably his biggest fan.

 

Back to Maggs....15 Mill is about 5-7 Mill more than he is worth based on 2003 season. 

 

I am the only one who sees through Maggs' veil and thinks he is a bit on the creepy side?

Creepy in what way? I am with ya all along, I think he's an 8 mill a year player. How he comes up with 15 mil is propostorious but at the same time the White Sox seem to be one of those teams that hasn't figured out the salaries in baseball are inflating at a pretty big rate and only stars are gonna get big bucks. Maggs is good, not quite a star..I'd love to have him around at 8 mill a year, even 9. He's productive, a good guy and can do the little things. But where he comes up with 14 mill, nuts simply nuts.

 

I gotta believe after he sees what Sheff and Vlad get (Like 10 mill and 12 mill respectively; I wonder if Sheff even gets that) then he'll figure out what his value is and the Sox can get him signed longterm and Maggs can have his future secured and never have to worry about money again.

 

And with Jose, I'm gonna go on the belief that Kenny had an idea that Matsui wasn't gonna be out there and knowing that he figures Jose will be very marketable when the time comes, so instead of losing him for nothing, he's gonna be able to get something valuable in return, maybe even someone like Itzuris or whoever who can be a long term solution at shortstop and come at a cheap price.

[ApplingsRevenge]

Ordonez in the current market is not worth only 8 million per year, that's ridiculous. However, 14 million is ridiculous as well. I would offer Maggs a 5 year, 55 million contract with incentives pertaining to bonuses based on playoff appearances, World Series appearances, etc. I'd offer him this before the winter meetings. If he doesn't take it, move him now, because he doesn't want to be here.

[Chisoxfn]

Ordonez in the current market is not worth only 8 million per year, that's ridiculous.  However, 14 million is ridiculous as well.  I would offer Maggs a 5 year, 55 million contract with incentives pertaining to bonuses based on playoff appearances, World Series appearances, etc.  I'd offer him this before the winter meetings.  If he doesn't take it, move him now, because he doesn't want to be here.

Right now the reports are Vlad may only find 12 mill a year and thats probably gonna keep him with the Expos. If Vlad is only worht 12 mill a year, then I have Maggs worth at least a few mill less cause Vlad is quite the player. And Sheff will only get like 10 mill and I presume it will be less and well he's also a better player then Maggs at this point.

 

Maggs is good, but when Vlad and Sheff gets less then Maggs thinks his worth, it will be a real wake up call.

 

Now would someone maybe pay 9 or 10 mill for Maggs, maybe on the open market, but I don't see him getting anymore then that if he tests free agency.

[BrandoFan]

Ordonez in the current market is not worth only 8 million per year

 

Ok, but current market is an OWNER's market, and Maggs is coming off a pretty average year, especially his declined defense and baserunning. He is 30 and his days of becoming a TRUE superstar are looking more and more like a pipe dream.

 

He is also one of the least marketable "stars" in the game.

 

Ok, 8 mill a year may be low-balling it (though Edmonds, Sexton and Giles of the last 2 years would disagree with you), but for Sox to be paying him 10+ mill a year well into his mid-30s, they need to see at least one 1000 OPS season as some sort of re-assurence.

 

Maggs is trying to get out.

[ApplingsRevenge]

Right now the reports are Vlad may only find 12 mill a year and thats probably gonna keep him with the Expos.  If Vlad is only worht 12 mill a year, then I have Maggs worth at least a few mill less cause Vlad is quite the player.  And Sheff will only get like 10 mill and I presume it will be less and well he's also a better player then Maggs at this point.

 

Maggs is good, but when Vlad and Sheff gets less then Maggs thinks his worth, it will be a real wake up call.

 

Now would someone maybe pay 9 or 10 mill for Maggs, maybe on the open market, but I don't see him getting anymore then that if he tests free agency.

If Vlad only gets 12 per year in this off-season, I'd completely change my point of view and not trade Ordonez. That market set would give the White Sox a fighting chance to keep him on the South Side for his career without crippling us in finances (we could concentrate on getting rid of Koch/Konerko). I'm a big fan of the low market rumors, it only helps the White Sox compete with the bloated sharks (Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers). I hope you're right.

 

ApplingsRevenge

[Chisoxfn]

Ok, but current market is an OWNER's market, and Maggs is coming off a pretty average year, especially his declined defense and baserunning. He is 30 and his days of becoming a TRUE superstar are looking more and more like a pipe dream.

 

He is also one of the least marketable "stars" in the game.

 

Ok, 8 mill a year may be low-balling it (though Edmonds, Sexton and Giles of the last 2 years would disagree with you),  but for Sox to be paying him 10+ mill a year well into his mid-30s, they need  to see at least one 1000 OPS season as some sort of re-assurence.

 

Maggs is trying to get out.

That could be...this could also be a ploy by the Sox to kind of call out Maggs or put some pressure on him in a sense saying, fine we'll move ya. Were not gonna reach those demands so quit thinking so ridiculous, although I highly doubt it.

 

I can't agree more though...Maggs isn't a superstar, he put up basically Carlos Lee numbers...give or take. Lee is gonna get like 6 mill a year or so, how much better is Maggs...really, just a mill or two better, imo.

 

Right now his defense isn't declining, imo. I think this was possibly his best defensive year of his career. I was really impressed with him out there.

[BrandoFan]

Creepy in what way?

 

--His insistence on not being called 'Maggs'

 

--The lack of facial hair.

 

--Low-key, vampire-like existence.

 

--That magnificent kung-fu drop-kick he threw at Fick's head in the 2000 brawl.

 

--These bizarre 15-mill-a-year rumors.

 

--Pretending not to speak English despite the fact that he is supposedly one of the better English-speakers.

 

--Just a vibe I get

[Chisoxfn]

If Vlad only gets 12 per year in this off-season, I'd completely change my point of view and not trade Ordonez.  That market set would give the White Sox a fighting chance to keep him on the South Side for his career without crippling us in finances (we could concentrate on getting rid of Koch/Konerko).  I'm a big fan of the low market rumors, it only helps the White Sox compete with the bloated sharks (Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers).  I hope you're right.

 

ApplingsRevenge

Brian Giles is one player that I'd say is very comparable with Magglio, except a righty. Give or take a few things, but Giles signed a deal for a small market team longterm at about 8 mill. Now some things were different then and he wasn't a proven star, but he's not really a star right now and I'd say his contract is more then fair. Giles and Maggs aren't very marketable in a sense and they are just short of being superstars.

 

I think we'll really be in for a shock..especially the players when they see some of the salaries the big name players get. Colon will be the only one that breaks the bank, imo. Hearing that Matsui would only get about 5 mill tells me that things are definately taking more of a downgrade then last year.

 

Mix that with an extraordinary amount of players available and there will be a lot of bargains out there latter in free agency which is why a team trying to sell some guys is gonna be best off doing it quick, cause later on people are gonna find some bargains and just say, hey, will go with this.

[Chisoxfn]

--His insistence on not being called 'Maggs'

 

--The lack of facial hair.

 

--Low-key, vampire-like existence.

 

--That magnificent kung-fu drop-kick he threw at Fick's head in the 2000 brawl.

 

--These bizarre 15-mill-a-year rumors.

 

--Pretending not to speak English despite the fact that he is supposedly one of the better English-speakers.

 

--Just a vibe I get

Lol....so your saying we should bring silver bullets to Sox games

 

I can see the next PR scare of the Sox...crazed tries to shoot Maggs with a silver bullet claiming he's a vampire.

[ApplingsRevenge]

We could bury Maggs next to ol' Hambone by the viaduct on 35th Street. Of course, we'd have to charge admission......

[BrandoFan]

crazed tries to shoot Maggs with a silver bullet claiming he's a vampire

 

 

Count Magglio? LMAO!

 

 

Say, during the trial, didn't Ligue Jr claim he was a slayer of some sort?

[Chisoxfn]

Count Magglio?  LMAO!

 

 

Say, during the trial, didn't Ligue Jr claim he was a slayer of some sort?

Well if it gets Buffy to the Sox games...it may be a good rumor to start

[ApplingsRevenge]

Brian Giles is one player that I'd say is very comparable with Magglio, except a righty.  Give or take a few things, but Giles signed a deal for a small market team longterm at about 8 mill.  Now some things were different then and he wasn't a proven star, but he's not really a star right now and I'd say his contract is more then fair.  Giles and Maggs aren't very marketable in a sense and they are just short of being superstars.

 

I think we'll really be in for a shock..especially the players when they see some of the salaries the big name players get.  Colon will be the only one that breaks the bank, imo.  Hearing that Matsui would only get about 5 mill tells me that things are definately taking more of a downgrade then last year.

 

Mix that with an extraordinary amount of players available and there will be a lot of bargains out there latter in free agency which is why a team trying to sell some guys is gonna be best off doing it quick, cause later on people are gonna find some bargains and just say, hey, will go with this.

I think the Sox should wait if they're going to trade Ordonez to ensure maximum value unless it's Soriano, which I consider maximum value. You make good points about the current market, which is all our speculation anyway, LOL! Any chance we could trade Ordonez, Honel, Rauch, Konerko and cash for Soriano & Nick Johnson? That may seem like a bit much to people, but I'm a BIG Nick Johnson fan.

 

ApplingsRevenge

[BrandoFan]

I can't agree more though...Maggs isn't a superstar, he put up basically Carlos Lee numbers...give or take. Lee is gonna get like 6 mill a year or so, how much better is Maggs...really, just a mill or two better, imo

.

 

 

To be fair, Magglio's OPS over last 5 years has been significantly higher than Carlos's. Carlos is only arbit eligible, so he shouldn't be making that kind money anyway.

 

Right now his defense isn't declining, imo. I think this was possibly his best defensive year of his career. I was really impressed with him out there.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Maggs didn't hustle on grounders as much/was a step slower compared to previous years.

 

Defensively? If I had a nickel every time Maggs missed a cutoff man/airmailed it. Towards the end of the season John Rooney was on his case big time, especially during the Twins series at HHH....He is still good, but I don't see the kind of defense he displayed in 1999-2000

[Chisoxfn]

I'd say a package of Rauch, Magglio and Borchard could possibly land you those two...but when you mix in Konerko, I think it makes it harder. The thing is the Yanks have two good outfield options in Sheff and Vlad. If Vlad stays with the Expos then it could get interesting cause the Yanks could make arguments to take Maggs over Sheff because he's younger, better defensively and has a much better attitude.

 

I think if Vlad stays, which is something I think will happen, then the Ordonez to Yanks rumors will really heat up and they could just get them to overpay. I know the Yanks have scoffed at the demands the Dbacks have for Schilling which is Soriano and Johnson. The question is, would an outfielder that is gonna be there a lot longer potentially be worth it to them. Schilling is quite the risk...although he's also an ace, but at 36 the question is for how much longer. If Vlad signs and things heat up, the Sox could maybe squeeze quite the deal out of the Yanks and land those two. If thats the case i'd make that deal in a heartbreak, deal Konerko and Borchard to the Dodgers for Perez..and keep Lee, Soriano and Thomas as your "heart of the order" and I'd still think Cameron could be a great option in center but use wsf's idea of the outfield with Reed/Rowand in right, Lee in left and Cameron in center. That would mean you stick Soriano at 2nd though, meaning you need to get a leadoff hitter cause I don't think Soriano should leadoff.

 

Still I also forget you got Johnson in the middle of the order too. That to me would be the sweetest deal, especially in all the financial relief.

[BrandoFan]

One thing that concernes me about Guerrero is the herniated disk. If he was a Edgar Martinez-type DH, I'd be worried. But considering his no holds barred style of playing, I am a bit scared of him.

[Chisoxfn]

One thing that concernes me about Guerrero is the herniated disk.  If he was a Edgar Martinez-type DH, I'd be worried. But considering his no holds barred style of playing, I am a bit scared of him.

As a gm, I'd be very aware of it and scared out of my mind of it. For that reason I wouldn't be a huge fan of taking him longterm.

 

If Vlad stays away from the Yanks, then I seriously believe you'll see the Yanks make a big push at Magglio...possibly finding a way to get Soriano and Johnson..with the Sox not needing to give up a top top prospect.

[YASNY]

If Ordonez seriously thinks he's worth $15 million per year, he is very mistaken. This will become obvious to him very soon. Either his agent is a moron who is living in the past, or this is just a negotiation stance that was used during the season, before it became so obvious that it was going to be an owner's market again.

 

But, if Magglio insists on that much, then it's adios.

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

And with Jose, I'm gonna go on the belief that Kenny had an idea

That would be a novelty. Of course, you didn't say Kenny had a GOOD idea.

[Soxfest]

I really'd like to know who said that Maggs is looking for 4 year/60 mill-type deal after 2004.

 

I mean I could understand if he was 25 and just entering his prime, or was coming off a couple of 1000 OPS seasons....He had 99 RBI in 2003 playing full season, people!

 

Since these numbers are so outrageous, in a post-CBA environment especially, I guess there is only one explanation for it:  Maggs wants out so bad he is willing to bluff.

I like Maggs alot, but at that price good luck finding 15 per because it is not going to happen :fthecubs

[DBAHO]

If Maggs gets shipped out to Anaheim and we lose Konerko as well, if we can't get K-Rod, then this is the prospect I wanna go afta.

Casey Kotchman, Angels, Age: 20

Kotchman has excellent plate discipline (more walks than strikeouts), can hit for average and plays good defense. His power stroke hasn't come yet, but he did hit 30 doubles in 288 ABs in the Midwest League last season. Those doubles may turn into to homers once he matures. On the downside, Kotchman's had an unfortunate run of wrist and forearm injuries — the kind of injuries that can hinder the developing power of a young hitter. He's a great natural hitter, though. He dominated the Cal League this past season and shouldn't have much trouble adapting to the high minors. If his power develops as it should and he stays healthy, he could be a top-tier first baseman in the majors. ETA: 2005.

[rafacosta]

If nothing else, the Sox always have had a sound farm system. One of their proudest moments was seeing something in a teenage Ordonez and signing him for $3,500 when the Houston Astros released him from a Venezuelan academy. In 1996, the Sox almost blew it when they left him off their major-league roster, which allowed any team to snatch him in the Rule V draft. Fortunately, no one claimed him. But here they are again, threatening to make the same mistake.

 

Great, i'm feeling the same way as Mariotti.