Grade Getz’s 1st Trade Deadline!

[wrathofhahn]

17 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

There is no chance whatsoever that the Sox pick up Eloy’s option for next year, so dumping for anything (including padding Jerry’s bank account) is an absolute no-brainer.

I disagree on multiple fronts.

One his option is exactly what makes him attractive to keep past the deadline. If he comes back and plays healthy and has a strong back half of the season his option can be picked up and moved in the offseason for a heck of a lot more than the trash we got in return if he isn't worth it we can just walk away for 3.5M at the end of the year.

Personally, I still believe in his bat. I just don't believe in him being able to stay healthy but if he does you have an asset at the end of the year. I don't believe in Roberts health either which is why I wanted him moved in the offseason.

It's about moving these players at the right time not when they are worthless

 

 

 

[Quin]

27 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

I don’t see what that has to do with the question of Vargas’ value vs. a current lower top 100 infield prospect, but OK

Cause Vargas' status as a former top prospect is ultimately meaningless.

[46DidIt]

11 minutes ago, T R U said:

Let me ask you this, you are trading Erick Fedde. Here are the offers on the table and you need to pick 1.

Player A - Was ranked in the top 30-40 top prospects a year ago. Has 438 MLB PA's over the last 3 seasons and has slashed .198 / .291 / .651

Player B - Is ranked in the top 75-100 top prospects right now, has yet to make MLB debut, and has produced at every minor league stop hes made so far.

So yeah, I would have been much happier about the trade had we got player B, but well never know if that was ever an option anyways.

Vargas also produced at every minor league stop. You get player B and then he goes through the same struggles when and if he gets to MLB. I don’t see the big advantage there compared to Vargas, having been significantly higher rated to begin with, already in the majors and having gone through the adjustment period. This year Vargas has an .440 OBP and over 1.000 OPS at AAA and 107+ OPS at MLB level. He’s been over .400 OBP each of last three years.

I don’t see how someone like Starlyn Caba would be preferable just because the don’t yet have 350 mlb PA. Sure the extra year is a consideration but seems to me like there’s a significant gap between Vargas and guys ranked closer to 75-100 at the moment. None of those guys have come close to “producing at every level” compared to Vargas

[46DidIt]

7 minutes ago, Quin said:

Cause Vargas' status as a former top prospect is ultimately meaningless.

How is it any more meaningless than anyone’s current status then? As I pointed out, he has .440 OBP and 1.000 OPS at AAA and 107 OPS+ at mlb THIS YEAR. The only thing different is Vargas past rookie threshold

[DFAthewave69420]

So does Crochet think his crap doesn't stink for having (1) good half season of a career?

 

https://x.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1818696052691575100

[Chicago White Sox]

1 minute ago, DFAthewave69420 said:

So does Crochet think his crap doesn't stink for having (1) good half season of a career?

 

https://x.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1818696052691575100

He seems like kind of a dick

[T R U]

12 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Vargas also produced at every minor league stop. You get player B and then he goes through the same struggles when and if he gets to MLB. I don’t see the big advantage there compared to Vargas, having been significantly higher rated to begin with, already in the majors and having gone through the adjustment period. This year Vargas has an .440 OBP and over 1.000 OPS at AAA and 107+ OPS at MLB level. He’s been over .400 OBP each of last three years.

I don’t see how someone like Starlyn Caba would be preferable just because the don’t yet have 350 mlb PA. Sure the extra year is a consideration but seems to me like there’s a significant gap between Vargas and guys ranked closer to 75-100 at the moment. None of those guys have come close to “producing at every level” compared to Vargas

You can't assume player B is going to go through the same struggles, that wasn't part of what you said initially.

Just as an option, if I get offered a former top prospect who has struggled at the MLB level over 400+ plate appearances but produced in the minors OR a current top prospect who hasn't yet made it to the MLB but has produced in the minors gimme the latter all day.

Its risk mitigation, you have a first hand view that this guy might be a bust. You don't with the other guy.

In January 2023 I bought a new car. 4 days later the check engine light came on. I took it back and exchanged it for a different car. While it was probably not a big deal, and the car would be fine I still would rather have the car that hadn't shown any issues over the one I saw have a problem.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He seems like kind of a dick

Sell high on him in the offseason and move on. 
 

[Flash]

Am late to the party but I'd its hard to assign a grade w/o knowing Getz mandate. Assuming he intended to trade Crochet and Robert, it appears he overplayed his hand but who knows if anything meaningful was floated for either. In Robert' case, it didn't help that he has become a strikeout machine. On paper, if the mandate was to shed payroll and stock the lower minors with interesting prospects, I'd give him a B. My problem is the team appears to have no guiding star to point to. Are we trying to improve with an eye toward competing? Over what time horizon? If the answer to those two questions are 1) yes and 2) within next 2 years; I'd give Getz and whoever is driving this aimless franchise an F

.  

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Anything is possible although not very likely. As has been stated, the capital gains tax if JR sells while he is alive is estimated at 200 million PLUS he'd then have to pay Illinois state tax penalty.

JR started his professional career working for the IRS, that amount of money grabs his attention.

He's not selling, his family will when he passes since in that case the capital gains tax is basically zero. 

That billion dollar profit doesn't grab his attention? 

[WhiteSox2023]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He seems like kind of a dick

Immature response, considering he made a demand that he really can’t make and he sabotaged his chance at being moved to a contender and getting the extension he wanted.  Not exactly a brain trust.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I’d give it a C. Holding Robert and Crochet is the smart move. The Fedde return was a player short. I don’t dislike what was acquired but the deal is at least one piece short. The other trades were fine and I think Banks and Eloy were really good ones. 

Close to my opinion but leaning C- to D.

Maybe I overvalued Fedde or Getz thought way too highly of Vargas AAA stats and ignored his fielding. Kopech still throws 100 and had an extra year so we differ in that it seems light for 3 MLB players teams actually wanted 2 of them with the extra year and current Top 20ish pitcher in baseball. St. Louis put Pham in their lineup right away and got rewarded with a Granny. So I think they were a strong prospect short especially since Edman didn't play at all this year.

I did expect very few Top 100 guys to be traded which I spoke of in some of the future Sox draft threads. Maybe pitchers, catchers and 1st basemen would be out there,  so I thought we might get a top C/1st baseman if Getz was offered any he liked among the suitors.

I also didn't like the reports that said he preferred not to trade in division although ultimately maybe they didn't offer the right kind of players.

Eloy sure great trade for JR but at least he got a player back . But I'm at the point that I view these trades as nothing more than bottom line trades and as such were not designed to be impactful to improving the team very much but to help JR prepare the team to be sold.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Close to my opinion but leaning C- to D.

Maybe I overvalued Fedde or Getz thought way too highly of Vargas AAA stats and ignored his fielding. Kopech still throws 100 and had an extra year so we differ in that it seems light for 3 MLB players teams actually wanted 2 of them with the extra year and current Top 20ish pitcher in baseball. St. Louis put Pham in their lineup right away and got rewarded with a Granny. So I think they were a strong prospect short especially since Edman didn't play at all this year.

I did expect very few Top 100 guys to be traded which I spoke of in some of the future Sox draft threads. Maybe pitchers, catchers and 1st basemen would be out there,  so I thought we might get a top C/1st baseman if Getz was offered any he liked among the suitors.

I also didn't like the reports that said he preferred not to trade in division although ultimately maybe they didn't offer the right kind of players.

Eloy sure great trade for JR but at least he got a player back . But I'm at the point that I view these trades as nothing more than bottom line trades and as such were not designed to be impactful to improving the team very much but to help JR prepare the team to be sold.

Yeah I have a tough time saying the Eloy trade is "really good" unless the O's are paying everything (including full buyout for next year)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah I have a tough time saying the Eloy trade is "really good" unless the O's are paying everything (including full buyout for next year)

And even then it's not really good for the Sox. There's no way to tell if it went toward next years player payroll .

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And even then it's not really good for the Sox. There's no way to tell if it went toward next years player payroll .

Spotrac always shows that the buyout goes to the payroll for that season bought out. But doesn't effect luxury tax number.

[TheBooneLoganEra]

D - Only avoiding an F because he did make trades and didn't do nothing. The moves were mostly bad, save for getting rid of Eloy. And the only way out of this mess into any kind of relevance is going to be spending money on competent, major league ballplayers. Which they won't do, so I really see no hope. 

[ChiSox59]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

I disagree on multiple fronts.

One his option is exactly what makes him attractive to keep past the deadline. If he comes back and plays healthy and has a strong back half of the season his option can be picked up and moved in the offseason for a heck of a lot more than the trash we got in return if he isn't worth it we can just walk away for 3.5M at the end of the year.

Personally, I still believe in his bat. I just don't believe in him being able to stay healthy but if he does you have an asset at the end of the year. I don't believe in Roberts health either which is why I wanted him moved in the offseason.

It's about moving these players at the right time not when they are worthless

 

 

 

It pains me to say, but Eloy is basically worthless. Eloy can't do anything but hit, and he hasn't hit for awhile.  He can't run. He can't stay healthy. He certainly can't field.  To me it depends a bit on how much $ the Sox sent (if they ate most of it, may as well have kept him), but there is really no reason to keep Eloy around.  There is a 0% chance Eloy's option is getting picked up.  Even if he is Hank Aaron reincarnate the next two months, you'll quickly regret picking that option up. 

[fathom]

Wish they would have just kept Kopech if his value was so little, as even though he’s a pain in the butt, maybe he would have had a strong start to next season as the closer and then you get more for him at the deadline.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

That billion dollar profit doesn't grab his attention? 

JR doesn't get the entire sum, remember he has a number of limited partners who would get their share. Personally I think the idea of paying (estimate) 300 million in tax hits when all is said and done is more meaningful to him. 

All I know is what he has said on rare occasions he has talked about it over the years, he won't sell but has told his family to keep the Bulls and sell the Sox.

[fathom]

Do you think Getz will be crushed if Bleacher Report says he had a bad deadline?

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

I disagree on multiple fronts.

One his option is exactly what makes him attractive to keep past the deadline. If he comes back and plays healthy and has a strong back half of the season his option can be picked up and moved in the offseason for a heck of a lot more than the trash we got in return if he isn't worth it we can just walk away for 3.5M at the end of the year.

Personally, I still believe in his bat. I just don't believe in him being able to stay healthy but if he does you have an asset at the end of the year. I don't believe in Roberts health either which is why I wanted him moved in the offseason.

It's about moving these players at the right time not when they are worthless

 

 

 

Unless something crazy happens he is in 1/$10 territory at best this winter, and that might be high.

[wrathofhahn]

2 hours ago, 46DidIt said:

How is it any more meaningless than anyone’s current status then? As I pointed out, he has .440 OBP and 1.000 OPS at AAA and 107 OPS+ at mlb THIS YEAR. The only thing different is Vargas past rookie threshold

He's almost 25.

 

[wrathofhahn]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Unless something crazy happens he is in 1/$10 territory at best this winter, and that might be high.

With the option being a sunk cost for us it's really 1/13.5

If he hits for the remainder of the season it's not unreasonable at all, if he doesn't you walk away. There is a reason why a smart organization like the orioles made the trade. 

[wrathofhahn]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Wish they would have just kept Kopech if his value was so little, as even though he’s a pain in the butt, maybe he would have had a strong start to next season as the closer and then you get more for him at the deadline.

Agreed we didn't get Carson either.

It's like we are addicted to bringing in washed up vets rather than change of scenery type high ceiling players. We don't value them internally and we don't trade for them.

And people wonder why we get trash returns well if you don't even try to build an asset base and all you have are washed vets who want AB's those guys aren't worth much of anything at the deadline.

You can package a hundred phrams and dejongs and pillars together none of them ever is going to give you much

Edited July 31 by wrathofhahn

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

With the option being a sunk cost for us it's really 1/13.5

If he hits for the remainder of the season it's not unreasonable at all, if he doesn't you walk away. There is a reason why a smart organization like the orioles made the trade. 

If he hits is the problem