Robert

[WhiteSox2023]

30 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Sure, and he also wouldn’t be the first player to have a couple bad seasons mixed in with a bunch of good ones.

Look, I get it. He’s been hurt. He’s been inconsistent. He’s underperformed. We’re all sick of hearing about his elite talent without seeing elite results.

But I don’t get the need to prematurely conclude that he’s nothing more than an average player and that’s all he’ll ever be. He just turned 27.

The problem is it’s obvious the Sox need to trade Robert to bring in prospects for the future when they could possibly be competitive but he is completely tanking his trade value.

[Snopek]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The problem is it’s obvious the Sox need to trade Robert to bring in prospects for the future when they could possibly be competitive but he is completely tanking his trade value.

For sure. It’s incredibly frustrating.

[Milkman delivers]

2 hours ago, bobbydanks said:

Okay whatever man you should know a slump or a  bust but you don't. Soto batting 200 with a 900 OPS was a slump. Julio is a questionmark but picking up. Robert looks like the same old s%*#. He's lost his power he's lost his walks he's lost his speed and he's probably ost his defense. The cubs wouldn't even trade us PCA for Robert right now and at the beginning of the year PCA was considered equal to Dominic Fletcher. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... maybe chill on that hill there 

What?

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The problem is it’s obvious the Sox need to trade Robert to bring in prospects for the future when they could possibly be competitive but he is completely tanking his trade value.

At the end of the day we KNOW Luis Robert won't be a White Sox when this team has a chance to be good again.  With that being the case, you get everything you can for him before he leaves.  It really is that straight forward.  It's the same with Crochet, who has a year less to be here.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

At the end of the day we KNOW Luis Robert won't be a White Sox when this team has a chance to be good again.  With that being the case, you get everything you can for him before he leaves.  It really is that straight forward.  It's the same with Crochet, who has a year less to be here.

Agreed.  I assume Crochet will be traded in the offseason, as long as he stays healthy to finish this season.  Also, I assume Getz will pass on trading Robert so low in the offseason and will opt to see if he can jack up his trade value prior to next year’s deadline.

[Tony]

3 hours ago, bobbydanks said:

Okay whatever man you should know a slump or a  bust but you don't. Soto batting 200 with a 900 OPS was a slump. Julio is a questionmark but picking up. Robert looks like the same old s%*#. He's lost his power he's lost his walks he's lost his speed and he's probably ost his defense. The cubs wouldn't even trade us PCA for Robert right now and at the beginning of the year PCA was considered equal to Dominic Fletcher. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... maybe chill on that hill there 

Coming into 2024 PCA was ranked the No. 18 prospect by BA, No. 16 by MLB.com and No. 20 by Baseball Prospectus. You are very, very wrong on this. 

[Bob Sacamano]

11 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

He’s no superstar either.  Superstars don’t go into massively long bouts of slumps like this guy, and that’s when he’s not injured which is often.

.224 / .690?

No way…

Yeah I don't really care about the rest of the lineup or protection excuse. You can put guys with discipline in his spot and they'd walk 200 times a year.

[oldsox]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:20 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Agreed.  I assume Crochet will be traded in the offseason, as long as he stays healthy to finish this season.  Also, I assume Getz will pass on trading Robert so low in the offseason and will opt to see if he can jack up his trade value prior to next year’s deadline.

Tough to get hurt with his workload lately.

[Texsox]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:17 AM, southsider2k5 said:

At the end of the day we KNOW Luis Robert won't be a White Sox when this team has a chance to be good again.  With that being the case, you get everything you can for him before he leaves.  It really is that straight forward.  It's the same with Crochet, who has a year less to be here.

Absolutely correct. The only decision is when. I believe a GM might take a chance that the team's lack of success is the issue and that a rebound is highly likely. But even then no where near what we would have expected a couple years ago. 

Also the longer you wait to trade him the less time you have for any prospects to be MLB ready. 

[Johno]

is Robert even a top 100 player?   At this time i would say no

[caulfield12]

3/4 tonight but still 23 games since his last homer.

Butler pulled up in RE...should have been caught.

[Dick Allen]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:17 AM, southsider2k5 said:

At the end of the day we KNOW Luis Robert won't be a White Sox when this team has a chance to be good again.  With that being the case, you get everything you can for him before he leaves.  It really is that straight forward.  It's the same with Crochet, who has a year less to be here.

I agree, but is there any player in the White Sox organization who will be a White Sox when they are good again? It’s a serious question. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I agree, but is there any player in the White Sox organization who will be a White Sox when they are good again? It’s a serious question. 

Probably not. This is going to take roughly a decade to dig out of, and that's once Getz gets fired. 

We're probably looking at a 90s/00s Pirates length of irrelevance and badness. 

Edited Sunday at 03:29 PM by baseball_gal_aly

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Probably not. This is going to take roughly a decade to dig out of, and that's once Getz gets fired. 

We're probably looking at a 90s/00s Pirates length of irrelevance and badness. 

Royals went roughly thirty years...Mariners approaching twenty years.  Marlins Angels Rockies etc.

Edited Sunday at 03:35 PM by caulfield12

[baseball_gal_aly]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Royals went roughly thirty years...

I'm in my late 30s and I question whether I'd live to see the Sox be good again. 

[southsider2k5]

34 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I agree, but is there any player in the White Sox organization who will be a White Sox when they are good again? It’s a serious question. 

I have no vision of how the Sox are going to be able to amass enough talent all at the same time to be able to compete anytime in the next 4-5 years.  The offensive talent is downright offensive.   Pitching maybe, but if they can't trade them for hitters, can't draft hitters, can't sign hitters, and can't develop hitters, what are we doing? 

Even if by some miracle,  Chris Getz really is the boy genius of hiring and actually fixes the drafting and development problems, how many more years before those things actually pay off if those hires are still to be made? 

A new international director isn't going to have a single 16 year old of their own signed until at least 2026, probably longer as most your talent is already accounted for going out a couple of seasons. 

Pro scouts don't exist for potential Robert and Crochet trades.  We are already depending on non-scouts for advice and that is going swimmingly well.

We can only pick higher than 10th once in the next three years if we have huge loss seasons as expected. 

Our top hitting prospects were pretty awful this year as a whole, and Getz refuses to play the one ok success story.

Free agency?  Hahahahaha!

We well might be entering not just a rebuild,  but a cycle of failed rebuilds.

[greg775]

On 8/29/2024 at 9:17 AM, southsider2k5 said:

At the end of the day we KNOW Luis Robert won't be a White Sox when this team has a chance to be good again.  With that being the case, you get everything you can for him before he leaves.  It really is that straight forward.  It's the same with Crochet, who has a year less to be here.

But when you trade all your 'good' players it doesn't help anything. So you trade Crochet and once again (combined with trading guys like Cease) your pitching staff not only will be bad next year but 40-victory bad. If you trade your only 'good' players because they won't be with the team when it's good again, the problem is the team will never be good again. I want a re-do back to the Sale years. Don't trade him, try to improve like a normal team does. It's much better than the trade anybody with a pulse strategy where you acquire prospects who most often don't work out. If you get a good to great player or pitcher keep him. I don't know why all Sox fans can't see this. (A separate discussion is whether Robert, Vaughn are even 'good' players much less difference makers; sure seems like Robert is all hype and Vaughn reeks).

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, greg775 said:

But when you trade all your 'good' players it doesn't help anything. So you trade Crochet and once again (combined with trading guys like Cease) your pitching staff not only will be bad next year but 40-victory bad. If you trade your only 'good' players because they won't be with the team when it's good again, the problem is the team will never be good again. I want a re-do back to the Sale years. Don't trade him, try to improve like a normal team does. It's much better than the trade anybody with a pulse strategy where you acquire prospects who most often don't work out. If you get a good to great player or pitcher keep him. I don't know why all Sox fans can't see this. (A separate discussion is whether Robert, Vaughn are even 'good' players much less difference makers; sure seems like Robert is all hype and Vaughn reeks).

Except they got to the playoffs twice with the guys they got for Sale, and zero times with him.

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

But when you trade all your 'good' players it doesn't help anything. So you trade Crochet and once again (combined with trading guys like Cease) your pitching staff not only will be bad next year but 40-victory bad. If you trade your only 'good' players because they won't be with the team when it's good again, the problem is the team will never be good again. I want a re-do back to the Sale years. Don't trade him, try to improve like a normal team does. It's much better than the trade anybody with a pulse strategy where you acquire prospects who most often don't work out. If you get a good to great player or pitcher keep him. I don't know why all Sox fans can't see this. (A separate discussion is whether Robert, Vaughn are even 'good' players much less difference makers; sure seems like Robert is all hype and Vaughn reeks).

This has to be done because the owner refuses to pay the going premium rate for pitchers or players who actually perform well.

I don't know why you can't see this.

Sox fans don't like this 'philosophy' but as long as JR owns the club this is the only choice.

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

This has to be done because the owner refuses to pay the going premium rate for pitchers or players who actually perform well.

I don't know why you can't see this.

Sox fans don't like this 'philosophy' but as long as JR owns the club this is the only choice.

I know why he can't see it...

[greg775]

2 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

This has to be done because the owner refuses to pay the going premium rate for pitchers or players who actually perform well.

I don't know why you can't see this.

Sox fans don't like this 'philosophy' but as long as JR owns the club this is the only choice.

But we have no chance of winning, maybe never making .500 again, with this philosophy. We'll deal Crochet for 3-4 guys and they all will reek. Or maybe the hitters will have a ceiling of Beni and pitchers the ceiling of a Drew Thorpe. Let me ask u: Do you expect the Sox roster to on paper be worse for the 2025 season than it is now? And same question for 2026? Will it be just as bad or worse than this year? Bless the Sox fans for supporting this crud. It seems almost criminal so to speak to put the same crud out there in 2025 and 2026 as this season. Except for Crochet the Sox have no player you would willingly pay to watch. Robert doesn't deserve that status after hitting .220 most of this season.

Edited Monday at 01:52 AM by greg775

[greg775]

Eloy, one of the main pieces of the tank job, is 1 hit in his last 18 at bats. Over 15 games he's 7 for 44 with one RBI, lol.

What a bust.

[Lip Man 1]

46 minutes ago, greg775 said:

But we have no chance of winning, maybe never making .500 again, with this philosophy. We'll deal Crochet for 3-4 guys and they all will reek. Or maybe the hitters will have a ceiling of Beni and pitchers the ceiling of a Drew Thorpe. Let me ask u: Do you expect the Sox roster to on paper be worse for the 2025 season than it is now? And same question for 2026? Will it be just as bad or worse than this year? Bless the Sox fans for supporting this crud. It seems almost criminal so to speak to put the same crud out there in 2025 and 2026 as this season. Except for Crochet the Sox have no player you would willingly pay to watch. Robert doesn't deserve that status after hitting .220 most of this season.

To answer all of your questions.

To put it bluntly and starkly, there is NO HOPE (or at best very, very little...maybe they get lucky like in 2005) that this incompetent, dysfunctional and inept organization can be good or even mediocre for the next several years as long as JR owns the club.

Period...full stop...end of story. 

The only "hope" I have is to outlive JR and take my chances with new ownership. 

 

Edited Monday at 02:37 AM by Lip Man 1

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, greg775 said:

But we have no chance of winning, maybe never making .500 again, with this philosophy. We'll deal Crochet for 3-4 guys and they all will reek. Or maybe the hitters will have a ceiling of Beni and pitchers the ceiling of a Drew Thorpe. Let me ask u: Do you expect the Sox roster to on paper be worse for the 2025 season than it is now? And same question for 2026? Will it be just as bad or worse than this year? Bless the Sox fans for supporting this crud. It seems almost criminal so to speak to put the same crud out there in 2025 and 2026 as this season. Except for Crochet the Sox have no player you would willingly pay to watch. Robert doesn't deserve that status after hitting .220 most of this season.

Explain to me a realistic path to the White Sox being at least 50 games better before the end of 2026 when we lose Crochet for nothing.

[greg775]

Didn't see a thread this fit in but, why are Robert and the Sox suddenly hitting the heck out of the ball? Is mediocrity rather than awfulness our fave team's destiny for 2025? Do you folks think mediocrity is around the corner or another 40-45 win season? Sox are scoring.