Pedro Grifol, Charlie Montoyo, Eddie Rodriguez, & Mike Tosar Fired (Grady Sizemore interim manager)

[Falstaff]

3 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think the amateur scouting is fine. I’m expecting a new international director this offseason 

That is good news, I hope they find a director that can produce talent.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think the amateur scouting is fine. I’m expecting a new international director this offseason 

I just want to know where the artificial barriers we have created in Latin America are coming from, and fix that problem.  If it is Paddy, cool.  If it is Jerry, it won't make a difference.

[caulfield12]

14 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I’m not losing objectivity. Cool post though. 

Okay, you’re rooting with your heart as much as your brain.

How many OTHER Kyle Hendrickses are out there?  

The profile is just like finding Madrigal successes on the position player side with that particular profile.

The irony is that player (and offensive impact) was there all along in the OSU outfield, even though he received the least amount of attention from scouts.

[Falstaff]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

More amazing to me is how many Sox fans on an internet message board think they are professional scouts.

 I wouldn't be surprised if some posters could get in on an entry level position with an MLB team's Analytics Department.

The White Sox could sure use some help in the analytics part of scouting.

Edited August 9 by Falstaff

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't need his FIP to be great. I also don't need it to be 4.8+. No matter how much weak contact you induce, no one is running an ERA a full run better than their fip consistently. 

Also, a lot of noise in weak contact through that kind of sample. 

His minor league track record was sparkling but he was traded by two teams. Thorpe needs another pitch. 

Well technically his FIP was 4.2 during that stretch and his ERA was actually three runs better ?

And I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you’re saying, but it seems a bit premature to say a guy with one elite pitch and Brian Bannister at his side can’t improve and/or add to his repertoire.

I do disagree with the “two teams traded him” comment though.  He was traded for Juan Soto and Dylan Cease…that context obviously matters and should support a value case more than deny it.

Edited August 9 by Chicago White Sox

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Okay, you’re rooting with your heart as much as your brain.

How many OTHER Kyle Hendrickses are out there?  

The profile is just like finding Madrigal successes on the position player side with that particular profile.

The irony is that player (and offensive impact) was there all along in the OSU outfield, even though he received the least amount of attention from scouts.

I am going to say this much.  For a guy like Drew Thorpe to be ranked, there has to be a lot extra there.  These guys doing evaluations know what it takes to be successful, and if a guy without a lot of those plus tools is getting this much attention, the rest of his stuff must be that much better.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Well technically his FIP was 4.2 during that stretch and his ERA was actually three runs better ?

And I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you’re saying, but it seems a bit premature to say a guy with one elite pitch and Brian Bannister at his side can’t improve and/or add to his repertoire.

I do disagree with the “two teams traded him” comment though.  He was traded for Juan Soto and Dylan Cease…that context obviously matters and should support a value case more than deny it.

It also meant the San Diego Padres saw him as worth being part of a Soto trade for, and not some of their other more toolsy guys.

[ChiSox59]

Curious to see if they make any roster moves today to get some of these worthless vets out of the way. 

[T R U]

Just now, ChiSox59 said:

Curious to see if they make any roster moves today to get some of these worthless vets out of the way. 

Im very interested in seeing the lineup. Is this actual change, or is it going to be the same horeshit we've seen all season. Theres no way Grady Sizemore, as a former OFer, can look at Sheets and say "Yeah, this is my RFer".

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You can judge Getz on the fact that pretty much every single position player regressed and/or failed.  It is really, really hard to inherit a 100 loss team and make it 20 games worse.

A bunch of bums and often injured players playing like bums and piling up injuries and trading any player they could trade at last year's deadline and the off season and slashing payroll and getting 20 games worse doesn't seem really really hard to me.

Was a historically bad team predictable ? Probably not but predicting a 100 win team to win 120 isn't all that predictable either.

What was predictable was the Sox were going to be just as bad if not worse after everything I described above.

Has Getz contributed to further erosion of future Sox teams ? Absolutely. But maybe not to degree that has so many people up in arms .

I will agree that Getz has not shown the ability to maximize major trades. But even then position player prospects hoarding has become widespread and opposing GMs are aware that Getz is under the gun by JR to dump salary.  They treat the Sox like they should be grateful they are making any offers.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Curious to see if they make any roster moves today to get some of these worthless vets out of the way. 

Didn’t Colas get scratched yesterday?  Get him up here and DFA Sheets.  It probably doesn’t mean the needle much (if at all), but let’s get the 1B out of the OF for on e

[almagest]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Zavala is a plus defender. On fangraphs he is also basically a replacement player, which is vast improvement over Moldy.

If you will also notice the entire theme of my post was all of these guys were already here and Getz blew it on their evaluations.  He also blew it with guys like Fletcher and DLoach that he traded for and has buried.

Zavala has barely played. You're banking the turnaround of the catching position on a guy who has appeared in 18 games, has 0.1 fWAR and is now in AAA. Losing Zavala is not a problem.

Trading for Fletcher and DeLoach then burying them is ridiculous. So is burying Colas. I'm hoping that was Pedro, and at least two of them get playing time now.

The bullpen guys I'm not as upset about, because, again, I don't think they'd be nearly as good here due to the pressure of trying to be perfect every game due to the team's lack of offense, and because I'm not convinced Ethan Katz or whoever manages the bullpen knows what they're doing.

I'm still also not seeing how Zavala, Colas/Fletcher/DeLoach and a better bullpen gets this team to +20 win pace.

[ChiSox59]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Didn’t Colas get scratched yesterday?  Get him up here and DFA Sheets.  It probably doesn’t mean the needle much (if at all), but let’s get the 1B out of the OF for on e

He did. I saw a follow up that he was dealing with calf tightness last night. 

Even without Colas, let Fletcher play RF over Sheets. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, almagest said:

Zavala has barely played. You're banking the turnaround of the catching position on a guy who has appeared in 18 games, has 0.1 fWAR and is now in AAA. Losing Zavala is not a problem.

Trading for Fletcher and DeLoach then burying them is ridiculous. So is burying Colas. I'm hoping that was Pedro, and at least two of them get playing time now.

The bullpen guys I'm not as upset about, because, again, I don't think they'd be nearly as good here due to the pressure of trying to be perfect every game due to the team's lack of offense, and because I'm not convinced Ethan Katz or whoever manages the bullpen knows what they're doing.

I'm still also not seeing how Zavala, Colas/Fletcher/DeLoach and a better bullpen gets this team to +20 win pace.

You are missing the point.  Those are just the tip of the iceberg as his internal screw ups.  These type of mistakes are how you take a 60 win team and turn it into literally the worst team in baseball history.  Yes, I judge him on that.

[almagest]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's amazing to me how many Sox fans are fighting for the respect of Chris Getz.

It's amazing to me that so many posters equate "I'm giving Getz another year because Jesus Christ himself couldn't make this team win 60 games" with "I am fighting for the respect of Chris Getz".

It's also amazing to me how so few posters understand that the major league team they have is a result of nearly a DECADE of incompetence.

[Y2Jimmy0]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Okay, you’re rooting with your heart as much as your brain.

How many OTHER Kyle Hendrickses are out there?  

The profile is just like finding Madrigal successes on the position player side with that particular profile.

The irony is that player (and offensive impact) was there all along in the OSU outfield, even though he received the least amount of attention from scouts.

You’re right. Drew Thorpe sucks. Chris Getz got fleeced. The Sox are fucked and we should all stop paying attention. Hey now I fit right in. 

[almagest]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

You are missing the point.  Those are just the tip of the iceberg as his internal screw ups.  These type of mistakes are how you take a 60 win team and turn it into literally the worst team in baseball history.  Yes, I judge him on that.

No, you are missing the point. There's no way letting some bullpen pitchers and Seby Zavala go caused the problems we're seeing this year.  You don't get to this level of historic incompetency in one offseason. This started with the sell-off in 2016 and is a complete organizational failure, largely due to Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn and Jerry Reinsdorf.

Believe me, I'm not a fan of Getz, but pinning it all on him because he made some bad bullpen moves or traded for guys who didn't play much in the most lost season in the history of the MLB is reactionary and short sighted. These moves literally do not matter right now. Most of the changes he's making are not going to show returns for a year at best. This might be the biggest org tear down we've ever seen. That's how BAD they are, from top to bottom. It's disgusting, and it's even more disgusting that Reinsdorf tried to sell this as a quick turnaround.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, almagest said:

No, you are missing the point. There's no way letting some bullpen pitchers and Seby Zavala go caused the problems we're seeing this year.  You don't get to this level of historic incompetency in one offseason. This started with the sell-off in 2016 and is a complete organizational failure, largely due to Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn and Jerry Reinsdorf.

Believe me, I'm not a fan of Getz, but pinning it all on him because he made some bad bullpen moves or traded for guys who didn't play much in the most lost season in the history of the MLB is reactionary and short sighted. These moves literally do not matter right now. Most of the changes he's making are not going to show returns for a year at best. This might be the biggest org tear down we've ever seen. That's how BAD they are, from top to bottom. It's disgusting, and it's even more disgusting that Reinsdorf tried to sell this as a quick turnaround.

No one is grading him on what they were.  They are grading him on what he has done since he got here.  He took a 60 win team and turned it into a 40 win team.  No one expected playoffs, but his imprint on this roster is valid.

[ptatc]

16 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

You’re right. Drew Thorpe sucks. Chris Getz got fleeced. The Sox are fucked and we should all stop paying attention. Hey now I fit right in. 

Now you are reading the room and responding appropriately. 

[almagest]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

No one is grading him on what they were.  They are grading him on what he has done since he got here.  He took a 60 win team and turned it into a 40 win team.  No one expected playoffs, but his imprint on this roster is valid.

No, he didn't. Once again, you don't get to this level of historic incompetency without a full, multi-year, thorough organizational failure.  None of you have even come CLOSE to showing how this could be a 60 win pace team through any set of realistic signings or trades. It's not possible with how utterly terrible they've been, and that's 100% due to the decisions made by Reinsdorf, Hahn and Williams over the last 8 years.

And again, grading him on player moves this year is IRRELEVANT. We're not going to truly start seeing the effects of the changes that are happening and need to happen until next year. Plenty of people around the team, including people on this board, have been commenting on what a bad state this org is in, and how much is changing and needs to change.

[southsider2k5]

Just now, almagest said:

No, he didn't. Once again, you don't get to this level of historic incompetency without a full, multi-year, thorough organizational failure.  None of you have even come CLOSE to showing how this could be a 60 win pace team through any set of realistic signings or trades. It's not possible with how utterly terrible they've been, and that's 100% due to the decisions made by Reinsdorf, Hahn and Williams over the last 8 years.

And again, grading him on player moves this year is IRRELEVANT. We're not going to truly start seeing the effects of the changes that are happening and need to happen until next year. Plenty of people around the team, including people on this board, have been commenting on what a bad state this org is in, and how much is changing and needs to change.

And this is exactly why you are getting accused of being a Getz apologist.  Absolutely nothing is his fault, and even if it is, there is another reason it doesn't matter because he couldn't have done anything, anyway.

And yes, if he can't do anything about it, he doesn't deserve the job.  Get rid of him.

[bmags]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am going to say this much.  For a guy like Drew Thorpe to be ranked, there has to be a lot extra there.  These guys doing evaluations know what it takes to be successful, and if a guy without a lot of those plus tools is getting this much attention, the rest of his stuff must be that much better.

Well honestly I think some of it is he had a high floor because of his plus command. We are throwing around #4 derisively but also I’d be pretty surprised if he’s not a longer term pitcher in the league.

But his upside is there for more, it’s just it was a “we’ll see if this extremely outlier approach can work at that level.”

[WhiteSox2023]

19 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Now you are reading the room and responding appropriately. 

Isn’t it surprising that posters on a Sox message board aren’t happy with the Sox ownership and front office when the team is on the verge of setting the record for being historically bad?

I guess some people are fine with the Sox being the laughingstock of baseball.  Low expectations…

Edited August 9 by WhiteSox2023

[almagest]

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

And this is exactly why you are getting accused of being a Getz apologist.  Absolutely nothing is his fault, and even if it is, there is another reason it doesn't matter because he couldn't have done anything, anyway.

And yes, if he can't do anything about it, he doesn't deserve the job.  Get rid of him.

"I don't like him, but give him a year because this entire org is fucked and there's no way to tell if what he's doing is working yet" is an apologist to you?

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, almagest said:

"I don't like him, but give him a year because this entire org is fucked and there's no way to tell if what he's doing is working yet" is an apologist to you?

Paragraph after paragraph of this is all someone else's fault, and even if it wasn't, it isn't really his fault anyway because it was still someone else's fault is easy to view as an apologist.