Pedro Grifol, Charlie Montoyo, Eddie Rodriguez, & Mike Tosar Fired (Grady Sizemore interim manager)

[fathom]

I know I’m damaged by the Sox this year because every time I see that Zavala had a neg .4 WAR, I think “no way Sammy is that high with his awful hitting this year”

[Kyyle23]

9 minutes ago, almagest said:

"RRRRRRRR.... GETZ BAD. ZAVALA COMPETENT DEFENSIVELY. RRRRRRRRR"

Hey no need to drag Zavala into it you could just leave the true statement in there ?

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

I know I’m damaged by the Sox this year because every time I see that Zavala had a neg .4 WAR, I think “no way Sammy is that high with his awful hitting this year”

I know Sammy is young and all that for his level. But there just is not a lot of big time major league contributors who hit under .200 in a minor league season.

[almagest]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Hey no need to drag Zavala into it you could just leave the true statement in there ?

Ha, fair enough - how's "ROMY GONZALEZ HUNDRED AT BAT SAMPLE SIZE ENOUGH TO DECLARE HIM BIG LOSS TO SOX", or "4 POINTS OF ERA+ BIG FAILURE", or "BENINTENDI AND VAUGHN SUCK BECAUSE OF GETZ"?

[Kyyle23]

18 minutes ago, almagest said:

Ha, fair enough - how's "ROMY GONZALEZ HUNDRED AT BAT SAMPLE SIZE ENOUGH TO DECLARE HIM BIG LOSS TO SOX", or "4 POINTS OF ERA+ BIG FAILURE", or "BENINTENDI AND VAUGHN SUCK BECAUSE OF GETZ"?

I will just stick with “the Sox are 28-89, I don’t see any sign of light at the end of the tunnel, Getz is in charge and has had his hands on this team for more than just this season and such is fair game, and that’s my opinion.”

and I won’t shout anything at you because I haven’t been doing that the entire time

[WhiteSox2023]

26 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I know Sammy is young and all that for his level. But there just is not a lot of big time major league contributors who hit under .200 in a minor league season.

Just ask Martin.

[WhiteSox2023]

22 minutes ago, almagest said:

Ha, fair enough - how's "ROMY GONZALEZ HUNDRED AT BAT SAMPLE SIZE ENOUGH TO DECLARE HIM BIG LOSS TO SOX", or "4 POINTS OF ERA+ BIG FAILURE", or "BENINTENDI AND VAUGHN SUCK BECAUSE OF GETZ"?

I knew Getz had three children.  I just didn’t know one of them posted in this message board.

[almagest]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I will just stick with “the Sox are 28-89, I don’t see any sign of light at the end of the tunnel, Getz is in charge and has had his hands on this team for more than just this season and such is fair game, and that’s my opinion.”

and I won’t shout anything at you because I haven’t been doing that the entire time

It's not shouting. It's zombie speak.

Also, you get to poke fun at people who have a similar opinion to me, so I get to do the same in return. It's all in good fun from my perspective. Up to you if you want to take it as an insult.

[almagest]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I knew Getz had three children.  I just didn’t know one of them posted in this message board.

You got an actual point to make, or are you just here to be insulting?

[Kyyle23]

Just now, almagest said:

It's not shouting. It's zombie speak.

Also, you get to poke fun at people who have a similar opinion to me, so I get to do the same in return. It's all in good fun from my perspective. Up to you if you want to take it as an insult.

I’m talking/arguing with you and whoever else directly. I’m not calling you guys too dumb to think for yourself so you are zombies who use group speak.  There is definitely a difference 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

49 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I find it equally as baffling that people think he bears 100% of the responsibility. He inherited 4 positional players whose contracts dictated they start, and another whose #3 draft pick put a lot of weight on giving him a year to show his promise.  Getz entered the winter meetings with one starter in the pitching rotation, and about half a bullpen. It gets bandied about here that his budget was cut, and he did mention a difficulty attracting free agent pitchers here because of the defensive reputation. But that all gets miraculously forgotten when we throw around this 100% responsibility claim. 

So all of that said, no, I don't think Getz has been knocking it out of the park. I can't tell if he's been doing a truly horrendous job because of the white noise of everybody screaming about every single move. I like the draft. I like some of his trades, not so much on some others. We all yell that we don't want any real prospects to be promoted to the major league team so that Grifol can't ruin them, but then ignore the total offensive collapse of the team, or slow development of rookies on the big team. Getz just fired Grifol and his coach buddies. Win?

This team is in a rebuild. Bannister is a win. He's saying the right things about refocusing our international efforts, hiring a new manager and bringing in a "Bannister of hitting". People are simultaneously saying that W-L doesn't matter, but Getz failed horrifically because of W-L. So arguing points in a vacuum may feel like people defending Getz. I'm just defending me getting a chance to see a full year in the life of a GM to make my own decision, and not follow the mob here like a zombie. 

 

1. There is no Bannister of hitting. Hitting and pitching are nothing alike. 

2. How can you like a draft that just happened? Jaysus. You sound like Jimmy liking a 19 year old with 12 professional at bats. 

He has proven nothing on the amateur side. I read earlier the Sox have a good amateur scouting program. What in the world could make anyone possibly think that? 

[almagest]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

I’m talking/arguing with you and whoever else directly. I’m not calling you guys too dumb to think for yourself so you are zombies who use group speak.  There is definitely a difference 

I wasn't the one to call you a zombie, though I'll admit its frustrating getting dog-piled by a bunch of people who take it personally that I don't share their opinion on Getz, so maybe I went too far. FWIW you've been good to interact with on this topic, and I can understand why people want to fire Getz. I just don't share that opinion.

[almagest]

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

1. There is no Bannister of hitting. Hitting and pitching are nothing alike.

Yes there absolutely is. Plenty of teams have a director of hitting. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2020/03/12/directors-of-hitting-pitching-becoming-more-common/111417370/

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, almagest said:

I wasn't the one to call you a zombie, though I'll admit its frustrating getting dog-piled by a bunch of people who take it personally that I don't share their opinion on Getz, so maybe I went too far. FWIW you've been good to interact with on this topic, and I can understand why people want to fire Getz. I just don't share that opinion.

I’m not trying to piss you off here either and like I said I get that you are more patient with this, I’m not.  I’m pissed off.  I don’t see any reason to give them an inch for anything anymore.  Not asking anyone else to go along with it, just how I feel about it.  

[southsider2k5]

16 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I will just stick with “the Sox are 28-89, I don’t see any sign of light at the end of the tunnel, Getz is in charge and has had his hands on this team for more than just this season and such is fair game, and that’s my opinion.”

and I won’t shout anything at you because I haven’t been doing that the entire time

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

[almagest]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I’m not trying to piss you off here either and like I said I get that you are more patient with this, I’m not.  I’m pissed off.  I don’t see any reason to give them an inch for anything anymore.  Not asking anyone else to go along with it, just how I feel about it.  

I don't have that much anger left for this team. I just don't. I barely even watch them. I'm trying to find something to be positive about, or at least ambivalent.

[PaleAleSox]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

1. There is no Bannister of hitting. Hitting and pitching are nothing alike. 

2. How can you like a draft that just happened? Jaysus. You sound like Jimmy liking a 19 year old with 12 professional at bats. 

He has proven nothing on the amateur side. I read earlier the Sox have a good amateur scouting program. What in the world could make anyone possibly think that? 

1. There are directors of hitting who use analytics and whatnot to make guys better...?

2. Just an odd take. Drafts in all sports get broken down and analyzed. It's an entire industry. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

1. There are directors of hitting who use analytics and whatnot to make guys better...?

2. Just an odd take. Drafts in all sports get broken down and analyzed. It's an entire industry. 

1. No one goes into an org and turns the hitting machine around in one year. Pitching, at the highest levels, is so mechanical and driven by metrics and data. 

Hitting is way more mental, and way more reactionary. Reactionary skills are much harder to refine and way harder to change across a huge population of players.

2. Read the book Superforecasters to understand how non-expert our public expers are in the world of forecasting and modeling.

Edited August 9 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Nardiwashere]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

1. No one goes into an org and turns the hitting machine around in one year. Pitching, at the highest levels, is so mechanical and driven by metrics and data. 

Hitting is way more mental, and way more reactionary. Reactionary skills are much harder to refine and way harder to change across a huge population of players.

2. Read the book Superforecasters to understand how non-expert our public expers are in the world of forecasting and modeling.

1. No one said anything about a single year.  You said the position doesn't exist and it does. 

2. Not following... someone can't have an opinion on a draft because you read a business/Malcolm Gladwell-esque book that said predictions are less accurate than people think?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 minutes ago, almagest said:

Yes there absolutely is. Plenty of teams have a director of hitting. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2020/03/12/directors-of-hitting-pitching-becoming-more-common/111417370/

I didnt say the position didn't exist. The impact of said position is no where near the same across orgs. It's also why, I think, pitching has dipped in value a bit as it's more developable. Hitting itself is a much harder and more individually unique skill than pitching a baseball. 

There's a reason driveline was driven by pitching development as we're most analytically driven baseball start ups. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

1. No one goes into an org and turns the hitting machine around in one year. Pitching, at the highest levels, is so mechanical and driven by metrics and data. 

Hitting is way more mental, and way more reactionary. Reactionary skills are much harder to refine and way harder to change across a huge population of players.

2. Read the book Superforecasters to understand how non-expert our public expers are in the world of forecasting and modeling.

But it sure seems possible to go in an destroy it in a short amount of time.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Just now, Nardiwashere said:

1. No one said anything about a single year.  You said the position doesn't exist and it does. 

2. Not following... someone can't have an opinion on a draft because you read a business/Malcolm Gladwell-esque book that said predictions are less accurate than people think?

No I didn't? I said there is no Bannister of hitting. That impact does not exist on the hitting side, not the job. I didn't even know Bannister job title, sheesh.

[2Deep]

I just heard the interview Getz had with Mully and Haugh this morning.  The Chicago media is such p*****s.........WSCR and their on air personalities talk a lot of s%*# about the White Sox and rightly fully so.

They had a chance to Grill Getz this morning and hold him accountable for his BS statements he made to fans but as expected they gave him softball answers.  Mully tried to convey the disappointment as a fan at one point but fell short and backed down real quick.

Unbelievable!!  Give me 15 minutes to interview his ass and ask real question!!!!! 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

I know I’m damaged by the Sox this year because every time I see that Zavala had a neg .4 WAR, I think “no way Sammy is that high with his awful hitting this year”

If it  has been long enough to comment on... with our player development history, it is easier to assume that, and just be surprised if it doesn't turn out badly.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

I find it equally as baffling that people think he bears 100% of the responsibility. He inherited 4 positional players whose contracts dictated they start, and another whose #3 draft pick put a lot of weight on giving him a year to show his promise.  Getz entered the winter meetings with one starter in the pitching rotation, and about half a bullpen. It gets bandied about here that his budget was cut, and he did mention a difficulty attracting free agent pitchers here because of the defensive reputation. But that all gets miraculously forgotten when we throw around this 100% responsibility claim. 

So all of that said, no, I don't think Getz has been knocking it out of the park. I can't tell if he's been doing a truly horrendous job because of the white noise of everybody screaming about every single move. I like the draft. I like some of his trades, not so much on some others. We all yell that we don't want any real prospects to be promoted to the major league team so that Grifol can't ruin them, but then ignore the total offensive collapse of the team, or slow development of rookies on the big team. Getz just fired Grifol and his coach buddies. Win?

This team is in a rebuild. Bannister is a win. He's saying the right things about refocusing our international efforts, hiring a new manager and bringing in a "Bannister of hitting". People are simultaneously saying that W-L doesn't matter, but Getz failed horrifically because of W-L. So arguing points in a vacuum may feel like people defending Getz. I'm just defending me getting a chance to see a full year in the life of a GM to make my own decision, and not follow the mob here like a zombie. 

 

Who said he bears 100% of the responsibility, exactly?