almagest Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I didnt say the position didn't exist. The impact of said position is no where near the same across orgs. It's also why, I think, pitching has dipped in value a bit as it's more developable. Hitting itself is a much harder and more individually unique skill than pitching a baseball. There's a reason driveline was driven by pitching development as we're most analytically driven baseball start ups. The White Sox don't even have one right now (only an MiLB hitting coordinator), so finding someone to lead a focused effort across the entire org still seems like a win, even if the impact isn't as quick or as dramatic as Bannister. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: Don't forget the lockdown bullpen you told us he built, and how Nastrini was going to be great because of Spring Training. 28-89. Getz sucks. Expansion teams do better. In the literal history of modern MLB since the founding of the American League in 1901, there are three teams to have a worse start to a season, and none has done so in 108 years. We are talking about thousands of individual team seasons to have a grand total of three total worse than this one. The 1962 Mets who own the ML record with 120 losses in one season were on a pace 3 games better than this at the same mark in the 1962 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Who said he bears 100% of the responsibility, exactly? And I'll ask you who is saying Getz bears NO responsibility? If you're going to play the game of nailing down my every word, do it to everybody, or butt out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: And I'll ask you who is saying Getz bears NO responsibility? If you're going to play the game of nailing down my every word, do it to everybody, or butt out. That's what I figured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 53 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: I’m talking/arguing with you and whoever else directly. I’m not calling you guys too dumb to think for yourself so you are zombies who use group speak. There is definitely a difference You did just post a Dumb and Dumber clip that I guess is your view of me ignoring another half dozen people engaging in hyperbole over a roster move, or whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, almagest said: What are you defining as the mistakes that caused this roster to be 20+ games worse than last year, given the similar or better production provided by the position players brought in by Getz? The starting pitching is better overall. The bullpen is worse, but not by as much as I thought (91 ERA+ in 2023 vs 87 in 2024). It couldn't possibly be that every single position player regular left over from 2023 has been worse, could it? I really don't understand your crusade to defend Getz. Most of the holdovers from the Hahn era have sucked, true, but so have most of Getz's moves to supposedly improve the 2024 roster. Both of these can be true. But to think that Getz bears no responsibility for where the 2024 White Sox are is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 53 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 1. There is no Bannister of hitting. Hitting and pitching are nothing alike. 2. How can you like a draft that just happened? Jaysus. You sound like Jimmy liking a 19 year old with 12 professional at bats. He has proven nothing on the amateur side. I read earlier the Sox have a good amateur scouting program. What in the world could make anyone possibly think that? 1) But there is the management of hit coaching across the organization, as well as fielding. What most fans are looking for is an organizational approach to the offensive side of the game. Not one that forces all hitters to use the same approach, but maybe something that is teaching the use of stats, heat maps, approach to an at-bat, etc, at every level, as well as tweaking mechanics. 2) If I can't "like" a draft that just happened, then I'm assuming you agree that anybody trashing the draft that just happened are silly. From what I've read about this recent draft, I like what Shirley did, and I don't hate the player pool they acquired. If you don't think guys like Mason Adams, Brooks Baldwin, Grant Taylor, George Wolkow, and Jon Cannon are examples of good scouting, then there are no examples of good or bad scouting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: That's what I figured. Maybe we can give Getz more credit once he trades the rest of his flip candidates… Brebbia Flexen Lopez Sheets Oops… Edited August 9 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: I really don't understand your crusade to defend Getz. Most of the holdovers from the Hahn era have sucked, true, but so have most of Getz's moves to supposedly improve the 2024 roster. Both of these can be true. But to think that Getz bears no responsibility for where the 2024 White Sox are is absurd. There was no one out there to improve this roster by any substantial degree, unless you pipe dream about guys like Ohtani. I looked. We got improvement at SS and starting pitching and are break even pretty much with every other new player, and still are 20 games worse. I'm also not on a crusade to defend Getz, but god damn its frustrating when asking simple questions about who they should have signed or traded for, or spending time to show that the major differences on this roster are all due to large downgrades from existing players, results in "Getz apologist!" or bizarre arguments about signing or retaining guys who offer so little value over what they have, that you couldn't even win 20 more games if you "upgraded" 20 positions on the 26 man roster this way. Edited August 9 by almagest 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FT35 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) IMO, nothing wrong with supporting the guy or hoping he does well, but Getz doesn’t need people coming to his aide to defend him to make people respect him. He needs a record of success to do that. Not a move here and there that happens to work out…we’re talking a prolonged span of success where the franchise returns to its winning ways will be needed to redefine him. He doesn’t really have ANY history of success to refer to now. As of now, he only has a prolonged record of failures to show for his time in the GM role (and other roles) —so he (and JR) deserve the criticism and his defenders don’t have much to stand on. Don’t like it? Turn it around! Start proving people wrong. Start winning—consistently. Don’t rely on others’ narratives to do your bidding. People will come around then. If he’s good, we should be SEEING it—no need to be CONVINCED of it. Edited August 9 by FT35 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 28 minutes ago, almagest said: I'm also not on a crusade to defend Getz, but god damn its frustrating when asking simple questions about who they should have signed or traded for, or spending time to show that the major differences on this roster are all due to large downgrades from existing players, results in "Getz apologist!" or bizarre arguments about signing or retaining guys who offer so little value over what they have, that you couldn't even win 20 more games if you "upgraded" 20 positions on the 26 man roster this way. It's not even "defending Getz". It's more pushing back on people posting "Getz sucks" with no nuance or context. It's probably the equivalent of "Cub fan"; people who want to repeat the same canards over and over, and when pressed to even explain themselves they bail with a "you're Chris Getz", or something inane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 59 minutes ago, WestEddy said: You did just post a Dumb and Dumber clip that I guess is your view of me ignoring another half dozen people engaging in hyperbole over a roster move, or whatever. No that was directly at you, I have no problem with that. You have been mind numbing consistent in your attempt at some sort of forum martyr so I just don’t care anymore. I care even less since you tried to break board rules to come back 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: No that was directly at you, I have no problem with that. You have been mind numbing consistent in your attempt at some sort of forum martyr so I just don’t care anymore. I care even less since you tried to break board rules to come back I have no idea what you're talking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 33 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: No that was directly at you, I have no problem with that. You have been mind numbing consistent in your attempt at some sort of forum martyr so I just don’t care anymore. I care even less since you tried to break board rules to come back Brings me back to the Brando days.. cept at least he was more clever in his attempts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, almagest said: There was no one out there to improve this roster by any substantial degree, unless you pipe dream about guys like Ohtani. I looked. We got improvement at SS and starting pitching and are break even pretty much with every other new player, and still are 20 games worse. I'm also not on a crusade to defend Getz, but god damn its frustrating when asking simple questions about who they should have signed or traded for, or spending time to show that the major differences on this roster are all due to large downgrades from existing players, results in "Getz apologist!" or bizarre arguments about signing or retaining guys who offer so little value over what they have, that you couldn't even win 20 more games if you "upgraded" 20 positions on the 26 man roster this way. You’re honestly going to sit here and tell us there was nothing Getz could have done to build an ordinary 100 loss team? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 44 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: No that was directly at you, I have no problem with that. You have been mind numbing consistent in your attempt at some sort of forum martyr so I just don’t care anymore. I care even less since you tried to break board rules to come back Wow…which handle was his second account? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Wow…which handle was his second account? It never got through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: You’re honestly going to sit here and tell us there was nothing Getz could have done to build an ordinary 100 loss team? I’ve been asking for possible ways to do it and no one has given one. I also looked at the free agent list from last year and wasn’t super encouraged. If you have solutions I’m all ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 37 minutes ago, almagest said: I’ve been asking for possible ways to do it and no one has given one. I also looked at the free agent list from last year and wasn’t super encouraged. If you have solutions I’m all ears. There are 19 positional guys, 10 relievers, and 5 SPs who contributed negative fWAR this year (-12.2 total fWAR). Maybe start with finding replacement level talent for them instead of just assuming nothing could have been done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 46 minutes ago, almagest said: I’ve been asking for possible ways to do it and no one has given one. I also looked at the free agent list from last year and wasn’t super encouraged. If you have solutions I’m all ears. Profar and Winker. Follow the Royals’ path with the likes of Lugo/Wacha. Some of the SD pitching pickups like Estrada in the pen, platoon hitters like Solano and castoff pitchers like Martin Perez (another version of Chavez). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 “It unfortunately takes more than six to eight months to turn it around and feel like you’re headed in the right direction,” Getz said. “I certainly understand the skepticism of the direction we’re going based on our Major League club right now. I feel very good about where we’re at and where we’re headed and what we’ve accomplished so far, but without question, there’s still a lot of work that needs to be finished.” mlb.com Didn’t want to waste a year, that quote will be forever tied around Getz’s neck thanks to JR… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 4 hours ago, WestEddy said: defending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 You think Jerry wanted to make the move now just to get some spark to sweep the Cubs? These games should be competitive. The Cubs are no good. They are not near Sox bad of course but the Cubs are a boring lousy team. We might sweep them with the boost a new skipper gives a bad team for about a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 42 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Profar and Winker. Follow the Royals’ path with the likes of Lugo/Wacha. Some of the SD pitching pickups like Estrada in the pen, platoon hitters like Solano and castoff pitchers like Martin Perez (another version of Chavez). Thanks for making a legit effort. Profar was comfortable in SD and likely wasn’t playing anywhere else. No one knew he’d be this good. Winker I missed because he’s a left fielder. No idea how good he’d be in RF everyday. He was also horrendous in 2023. Perez hasn’t been very good. Solano is a solid platoon option. Not sure how good he is at 2B. Edited August 10 by almagest 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 10 Share Posted August 10 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: “It unfortunately takes more than six to eight months to turn it around and feel like you’re headed in the right direction,” Getz said. “I certainly understand the skepticism of the direction we’re going based on our Major League club right now. I feel very good about where we’re at and where we’re headed and what we’ve accomplished so far, but without question, there’s still a lot of work that needs to be finished.” mlb.com Didn’t want to waste a year, that quote will be forever tied around Getz’s neck thanks to JR… Of course the wild card in everything moving forward is how long JR owns the club. The 'rebuild" could be even longer if new ownership arrives, fires everyone and literally has to start from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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