WhiteSox2023 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, almagest said: Zavala is at -0.4 war this year, same as he was for the Sox last year. He’s only gotten 39 at bats though, so I really can’t see how you’d be counting on him for much of an improvement, especially since Lee would be getting most of the playing time. I agree on Colas, but let’s be honest - he hasn’t shown us anything to make us believe he’d be better. Still worth trying, I’ll give you that, and I hope he’s out there now that Grifol is gone. Romy Gonzalez only has 100 at bats this year. It’s likely he’d be exposed in a full time role. If you combine his entire career (~120 games), he’s basically Nicky Lopez this year. Not an improvement. If you add all those relievers you get 2.7 WAR. Definitely an improvement over the garbage they have now, but not enough to make up 20 games, especially when your offense averages 3 runs per game. Bullpens struggle when they have no margin for error. I’m also not sure any of these guys would be good here - I think Katz is terrible with bullpens. Meanwhile, Maldonado is at -1.4 WAR for the season and cost $4.5 million guaranteed. That’s -1 WAR worse than Seby Zavala (0.4 WAR) who is earning $756,700 on the season. We all agree that Colas should’ve been playing most of this ridiculously sh1tty season. Further proof Getz is a clown with roster management. Absolutely worthless Gavin Sheets is still playing over Colas. Romy González is at 0.8 WAR and making $740,000 on the season. Getz had to trade a valuable reliever away in Bummer to get a bunch of garbage back, including Nicky Lopez. Lopez is at a 0.3 WAR and is being paid a guaranteed $4.3 million dollars. So Getz essentially paid $7.3 million more to get -1.5 WAR less from the crappy players he already had on the roster. And keep in mind, this is just comparing two positional player acquisitions. If you factor in the rest of Getz’s acquisitions from the past offseason, it’s much worse. Trust me… Getz is a terrible GM, period. He was a former Director of Player Personnel and yet he has no clue on how to value players appropriately. He has whiffed far more times than he has signed a good player (Fedde, DeJong) and he got a bust return for Fedde. Edited August 9 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 7 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I’m not deferring my opinion to anyone. He might be a #4 starter. I don’t think you understand what ceiling means though. I'm very aware of what it means. Drew thorpe has one plus pitch, with a subpar fastball as a starter. One pitch starters aren't a recipe for stardom. His entire value is tied to one pitch maintaining elite value and even then that makes him a #4. I was never impressed with thorpe this year as most of his success was just driven by good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 It's amazing to me how many Sox fans are fighting for the respect of Chris Getz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 “It will always be a bit telling that when the Royals were looking for a manager going into 2023, they hired somebody else’s bench coach instead of their own one who’d been with the organization for a decade. Instead, they threw in with Matt Quatraro, who’d been part of one winning team after another on the staffs of top managers Terry Francona in Cleveland and Kevin Cash in Tampa. Quatraro’s first Royals team went 56-106, even worse than the Sox. But now the Royals are winning, in wild-card position as they soar miles above preseason win projections. Clearly, the Sox hired the wrong guy. Pin that on former general manager Rick Hahn, who was so sure Grifol was a home-run hire he struggled to contain his glee. Pin it on former vice president Kenny Williams and — what’s his name again? — Jerry Reinsdorf, the big cheese, too. Grifol’s dismissal was overdue. Then again, for months now — and especially during the obscene 21-game losing streak the Sox finally snapped Tuesday — a segment of the fan base has been wondering what the point even would be in firing the on-field manager in a bigger-picture production that has made the Sox organization a laughingstock. It’s a completely fair question without a completely satisfactory answer. Also, some thought Grifol should have to finish the season so the abysmal results would stain his managerial record and not someone else’s. That’s just petty. Funny, but petty.” https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/08/08/white-sox-pedro-grifol-fired-grady-sizemore-chris-getz-jerry-reinsdorf?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=080924 Sports Newsletter&utm_content=080924 Sports Newsletter+CID_b4812df04b87c42f8947c049b90ba7e1&utm_source=cst_campaign_monitor&utm_term=READ COLUMN&tpcc=cst_cm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 (edited) 7 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Fair point. I just think writing off Drew Thorpe is stupid. I need to take a break from this hellscape I think. Sometimes it’s quite normal to lose objectivity when you’re too invested in young players succeeding. When you invest all your hope/faith/belief in a homegrown Colson Montgomery or Gordon Beckham or random name being a key cornerstone building block. When every Grant Taylor looks like the anchor of the best rotation in 2027 MLB the Show. The failure rate is just so high…just look at the 1999/2000 and 2016/17 groups that briefly had #1 rankings.. And those two groups had 3-4 times the talent than what is in this current system. For fans who grew up in the mid to late 1980s, well we might never again see a talent injection like those historic years that seem like a fever dream they are now so remote. Edited August 9 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Sometimes it’s quite normal to lose objectivity when you’re too invested in young players succeeding. When you invest all your hope/faith/belief in a homegrown Colson Montgomery or Gordon Beckham or random name being a key cornerstone building block. When every Grant Taylor looks like the anchor of the best rotation in 2027 MLB the Show. The failure rate is just so high…just look at the 1999/2000 and 2016/17 groups that briefly had #1 rankings.. And those two groups had 3-4 times the talent than what is in this current system. For fans who grew up in the mid to late 1980s, well we might never again see a talent injection like those historic years that seem like a fever dream they are now so remote. For sure, but this may or may not apply to Thorpe. He had 5 consecutive great starts, then his arm starts hurting, then he gets lit twice. Could be the league adjusted. Could be he was injured. Once he gets healthy again, they'll just have to run him out there and see what the truth is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 You guys need to remember that JR and Getz thought this team was going to be considerably better than last year which explains a lot of the moves they made on the front end. They really believed if they just made defensive changes that's all that was needed to start heading towards contention. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 44 minutes ago, Timmy U said: For sure, but this may or may not apply to Thorpe. He had 5 consecutive great starts, then his arm starts hurting, then he gets lit twice. Could be the league adjusted. Could be he was injured. Once he gets healthy again, they'll just have to run him out there and see what the truth is. He did not have 5 consecutive great starts. He had a FIP of 4.8ish before he ever got "hurt." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Getz is on the score right now talking to Mully and Hanley. Segment starts at 7:30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Mully “how often do you talk to Tony, and is he now in the ‘Kenny’ role?” getz “no, it’s not like that at all. Me and Tony have a trusting relationship” still throwing bombs I see lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It's amazing to me how many Sox fans are fighting for the respect of Chris Getz. More amazing to me is how many Sox fans on an internet message board think they are professional scouts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 7 minutes ago, Snopek said: More amazing to me is how many Sox fans on an internet message board think they are professional scouts. More amazing that the White Sox have a GM that is less qualified than some people here are for that job. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 18 minutes ago, Snopek said: More amazing to me is how many Sox fans on an internet message board think they are professional scouts. Getz has been horrible in his short tenure thus far. It doesn’t take a professional scout’s eyes to see that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 We are all amazed at many things 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: More amazing that the White Sox have a GM that is less qualified than some people here are for that job. 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Getz has been horrible in his short tenure thus far. It doesn’t take a professional scout’s eyes to see that. Not sure what my post has to do with Getz. Deciding how the careers of Thorpe and Vargas will turn out feels like a waste of energy is all. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 24 minutes ago, Snopek said: More amazing to me is how many Sox fans on an internet message board think they are professional scouts. I am amazed at how many Sox fans seem to be better at professional scouting than the guys the Sox are actually paying to do it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 6 minutes ago, Snopek said: Not sure what my post has to do with Getz. Deciding how the careers of Thorpe and Vargas will turn out feels like a waste of energy is all. I'm not drawing conclusions on Vargas, although concerned a little bit for the same reason his stock has dipped a bit. Thorpe is a pretty easy evaluation imo. I look over into the twins dugout and I see his ceiling sitting there in Chris Paddack and Paddacks fastball has always been better than thorpes even though it's also trash. Paddack fooled the league for his first trip through with an elite change up and then became what every other one pitch starter becomes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 45 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: He did not have 5 consecutive great starts. He had a FIP of 4.8ish before he ever got "hurt." He also had an 18% hard hit rate during that stretch which is incredible. His FIP wasn’t going to be great due to the low K rate, but his xERA was still very good because he was inducing a lot of weak contact. I think the reality is he’s a bit of a unicorn and shouldn’t be judged based on like nine starts or whatever. His minor league track record is sparkling and while you may not value them most of the 3rd party prospect sites value him greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Just now, Chicago White Sox said: He also had an 18% hard hit rate during that stretch which is incredible. His FIP wasn’t going to be great due to the low K rate, but his xERA was still very good because he was inducing a lot of weak contact. I think the reality is he’s a bit of a unicorn and shouldn’t be judged based on like nine starts or whatever. His minor league track record is sparkling and while you may not value them most of the 3rd party prospect sites value him greatly. I don't need his FIP to be great. I also don't need it to be 4.8+. No matter how much weak contact you induce, no one is running an ERA a full run better than their fip consistently. Also, a lot of noise in weak contact through that kind of sample. His minor league track record was sparkling but he was traded by two teams. Thorpe needs another pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 8 hours ago, almagest said: Zavala is at -0.4 war this year, same as he was for the Sox last year. He’s only gotten 39 at bats though, so I really can’t see how you’d be counting on him for much of an improvement, especially since Lee would be getting most of the playing time. I agree on Colas, but let’s be honest - he hasn’t shown us anything to make us believe he’d be better. Still worth trying, I’ll give you that, and I hope he’s out there now that Grifol is gone. Romy Gonzalez only has 100 at bats this year. It’s likely he’d be exposed in a full time role. If you combine his entire career (~120 games), he’s basically Nicky Lopez this year. Not an improvement. If you add all those relievers you get 2.7 WAR. Definitely an improvement over the garbage they have now, but not enough to make up 20 games, especially when your offense averages 3 runs per game. Bullpens struggle when they have no margin for error. I’m also not sure any of these guys would be good here - I think Katz is terrible with bullpens. Zavala is a plus defender. On fangraphs he is also basically a replacement player, which is vast improvement over Moldy. If you will also notice the entire theme of my post was all of these guys were already here and Getz blew it on their evaluations. He also blew it with guys like Fletcher and DLoach that he traded for and has buried. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: I don't need his FIP to be great. I also don't need it to be 4.8+. No matter how much weak contact you induce, no one is running an ERA a full run better than their fip consistently. Also, a lot of noise in weak contact through that kind of sample. His minor league track record was sparkling but he was traded by two teams. Thorpe needs another pitch. Not to mention if a Sox pitcher is significantly out performing their FIP, it probably means that stat is flawed in this case we know the Sox D is historically bad and isn't helping anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 We are stuck with Getz for a while or until JR sells. Positives: Bannister, pitching development. Weaknesses: Scouting, position player & batting development, International Free Agents. Any ideas how the Sox can to tap into the International market ? , Another Maggs or even Carlos Lee would be a nice find. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 4 minutes ago, Falstaff said: We are stuck with Getz for a while or until JR sells. Positives: Bannister, pitching development. Weaknesses: Scouting, position player & batting development, International Free Agents. Any ideas how the Sox can to tap into the International market ? , Another Maggs or even Carlos Lee would be a nice find. Not put a retired person as head of international. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Sometimes it’s quite normal to lose objectivity when you’re too invested in young players succeeding. When you invest all your hope/faith/belief in a homegrown Colson Montgomery or Gordon Beckham or random name being a key cornerstone building block. When every Grant Taylor looks like the anchor of the best rotation in 2027 MLB the Show. The failure rate is just so high…just look at the 1999/2000 and 2016/17 groups that briefly had #1 rankings.. And those two groups had 3-4 times the talent than what is in this current system. For fans who grew up in the mid to late 1980s, well we might never again see a talent injection like those historic years that seem like a fever dream they are now so remote. I’m not losing objectivity. Cool post though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 9 minutes ago, Falstaff said: We are stuck with Getz for a while or until JR sells. Positives: Bannister, pitching development. Weaknesses: Scouting, position player & batting development, International Free Agents. Any ideas how the Sox can to tap into the International market ? , Another Maggs or even Carlos Lee would be a nice find. I think the amateur scouting is fine. I’m expecting a new international director this offseason 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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