Jake Burger trade

[ChiSox59]

11 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

He has 0.6 WAR. My guess if Eloy manages to stay healthy we are going to regret that deal much more more than Burger. 

How so?  There was basically no scenario where Eloy was on the 2025 roster at $16.5M, and the O's aren't picking that option up even if he's Hank Aaron the next 6 weeks.  Sox traded 2 months of Eloy.  He may eventually put it together (well, stay healthy), but time with the Sox simply ran out because he was always hurt, and got expensive.  

[WhiteSox2023]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And Fletcher? A truly youthful 26?  Outfielders age out even faster these days.  Just look at Benintendi’s defensive decline from an unjustified Gold Glove due to the support of Red Sox Nation.

I doubt Tony thinks that was a good trade either.  Getz choked on that one.

[ChiSox59]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He is cheap offense. Something this team desperately needs.  Instead, the Sox have a soon to be 26 year old with a 10.00 ERA in AAA.

Cheap DH offense on a team that already had a few DHs.  Free swinging, low OBP, no glove, bad bodied RHH aren't going to help the Sox become a better team. 

Eder has not been good, but focusing on his 16 innings in AAA to conclude that is what he is moving forward is stupid. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

How so?  There was basically no scenario where Eloy was on the 2025 roster at $16.5M, and the O's aren't picking that option up even if he's Hank Aaron the next 6 weeks.  Sox traded 2 months of Eloy.  He may eventually put it together (well, stay healthy), but time with the Sox simply ran out because he was always hurt, and got expensive.  

And if the Sox really want to take a chance on Eloy again, they can bid on him as a free agent in 3ish months, just like everyone else.

[WhiteSox2023]

3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Cheap DH offense on a team that already had a few DHs.  Free swinging, low OBP, no glove, bad bodied RHH aren't going to help the Sox become a better team. 

Eder has not been good, but focusing on his 16 innings in AAA to conclude that is what he is moving forward is stupid. 

I agree with the timeline problem with Burger but what DH’s did the Sox have that could put up an .800 OPS like Burger?  Eloy could barely do it or stay healthy and he would’ve been gone anyways due to his expensive contract.  Burger would’ve been starting last year, this year, and for the next few years for the Sox, no doubt.

Edited August 14 by WhiteSox2023

[ChiSox59]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I agree with the timeline problem with Burger but what DH’s did the Sox have that could put up an .800 OPS like Burger?  Eloy could barely do it or stay healthy and he would’ve been gone anyways due to his expensive contract.  Burger would’ve been starting last year, this year, and for the next few years for the Sox, no doubt.

I mean, you had to play Eloy if he was healthy this season.  So that means you're playing Burger at 3B where he is terrible if/when Moncada get's hurt, or you're playing him at 1B and sending your past #3 pick to the bench.  Burger, AV and Eloy are far too similar to all be on the same roster.  You can make an argument the Sox traded the wrong guy, but Eloy had negative trade value last summer, and the sox obviously were not ready to give up on AV. 

Edited August 14 by ChiSox59

[WhiteSox2023]

2 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, you had to play Eloy if he was healthy this season.  So that means you're playing Burger at 3B where he is terrible if/when Moncada get's hurt, or you're playing him at 1B and sending your past #3 pick to the bench.  Burger, AV and Eloy are far too similar to all be on the same roster.  You can make an argument the Sox traded the wrong guy, but Eloy had negative trade value last summer, and the sox obviously were not ready to give up on AV. 

I agree that Burger would’ve likely been at 3B with Moncada out, and other than a bad glove there, why would that have been so bad in a horrible losing season?  The Sox defense was terrible anyways as well.

Edited August 14 by WhiteSox2023

[T R U]

30 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Then why the hell did we trade for Fletcher at 26???

fWAR tells a completely different story.  Still has him as a negative net defender at third, that hasn’t changed.  But he did battle an oblique/abdominal injury at the very beginning of the season, that’s critical to add for context.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?stats=bat&lg=all&type=8&season=2024&month=0&season1=2024&ind=0&pos=3b&qual=200&pagenum=2&pageitems=30

exactly 21/42 third basemen with 200+ at-bats there

average

we don’t have a single player on the position player side that even comes close to AVERAGE right now

not a solitary one…

maybe worry about how we botched the two biggest opportunities to get ONE or even TWO who could actually be well above average, like Luis Robert in 2023 or Yoan Moncada in 2019

Ok fine, he has a 1.3 fWAR. This is still not great. Being Mike Trout for 28 days doesn't erase the previous 90 days from existence.

The Fletcher trade really has nothing to do with Jake Burger. They don't play the same position, they aren't even remotely similar as players, and it was two different regimes. That trade sucked too by the way.

The fact remains, Jake Burger on the 2024 White Sox doesn't change the outcome of this season one bit. Jake Burger would never have seen the next competitive Sox team no matter what.

[ChiSox59]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I agree that Burger would’ve likely been at 3B with Moncada out, and other than a bad glove there, why would that have been so bad in a horrible losing season?  The Sox defense was terrible anyways as well.

It wouldn't have been terrible in hindsight, but he would have been blocked to start the season.  The reality of the situation is the Sox aren't going to improve as a team until they start valuing defense, OBP and more athletic players.  This is a big reason why moving on from Burger never bugged me.  I did like the guy though.  He's super easy to root for, and its obvious this fanbase appreciated him.  I just don't think he is the type of player the Sox should be trying to acquired or hoard. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

42 minutes ago, Tony said:

It was a stupid trade, but wouldn't have changed the Sox situation. It's a nothing Burger. 

No one move can change the Sox situation so that's kind of CPT.Obvious  stuff.

The Sox have to makes dozens or scores of correct moves which seems impossible while JR prepares for his heirs to sell the Sox . He was incapable of making these moves even in his heyday. Never cared about infrastructure to support and develop youth. He reduces upper managements chances to succeed by  trying to build a contender from a series of moves that must need to have a 80 % success rate from working in the margins like Williams managed to do prior to the 2005 season. You need like 10 or more of your 26 man roster to have career  or near career years.

Kenny Williams probably deserves a lot more credit than we give him for somehow doing the impossible under JR.

[Snopek]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

After every sports championship, an immediate article predicting the following season and even ranking 30-32 teams or even hundreds for NCAA bb and fb.

Right, those are predictions and projections, which is completely different than definitively saying a team made a mistake in a trade while the results are still playing out.

 

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Grifol with his historically horrific managerial record must surely understand that much at least.  We won’t wait five years to declare him worst or Bottom 2-3 manager in franchise history, will we?

No, because his win/loss % literally puts him at the bottom of the list and since he is no longer managing the White Sox, that win/loss % will not be changing.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Eder was a rule 5 candidate roster fodder that we traded a good position player for, something we haven't been able to develop in basically a decade. It was a horrible trade at the time that basically no one defended and looks just as bad now.

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, T R U said:

Ok fine, he has a 1.3 fWAR. This is still not great. Being Mike Trout for 28 days doesn't erase the previous 90 days from existence.

The Fletcher trade really has nothing to do with Jake Burger. They don't play the same position, they aren't even remotely similar as players, and it was two different regimes. That trade sucked too by the way.

The fact remains, Jake Burger on the 2024 White Sox doesn't change the outcome of this season one bit. Jake Burger would never have seen the next competitive Sox team no matter what.

Agreed with everything here.  The biggest problem with the Burger trade looks to be similar to the Fedde trade, and even the Mena trade, thus far.  The Sox didn’t trade three decently valuable trade assets into a sure-fire return that will help the rebuild.  Hopefully, Eder, Vargas, and Fletcher start performing… 

Edited August 14 by WhiteSox2023

[T R U]

11 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Agreed with everything here.  The biggest problem with the Burger trade looks to be similar to the Fedde trade, and even the Mena trade, thus far.  The Sox didn’t trade three decently valuable trade assets into a sure-fire return that will help the rebuild.  Hopefully, Eder, Vargas, and Fletcher start performing… 

Yeah, the return on that trade doesn't look great at the moment. Either way, you just saw the Marlins have a complete fire sale at the deadline and my guess is there weren't many takers for a streaky 28 year old DH who was terrible up to that point.

[Bob Sacamano]

He wouldn't really help this team nor it's trajectory in anyway but at least the dude was likeable. Can't say the same for nearly most of this roster.

Edited August 14 by Bob Sacamano

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, T R U said:

Yeah, the return on that trade doesn't look great at the moment. Either way, you just saw the Marlins have a complete fire sale at the deadline and my guess is there weren't many takers for a streaky 28 year old DH who was terrible up to that point.

Based on the fact he was still there means there was zero market, because they were selling anything that wasn't nailed down.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I still have no problem with the idea of a Burger trade, but obviously the execution of identifying the talent of Eder was awful. 
 

Burger is going to be exciting to watch and root for a 1/3 of the season and then be borderline  unplayable for the other 2/3 of the season. He is what he is at this point, a DH only that will end up with an OPS around .800 that doesn’t really tell the whole story of his season. 

The biggest mistake was probably allowing a GM you know is going to be fired to make a trade at the deadline. That’s was the biggest flaw in the puzzle, not trading Burger in general 
 

[KipWellsFan]

12 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

He has 0.6 WAR. My guess if Eloy manages to stay healthy we are going to regret that deal much more more than Burger. 

This is quite the take...

If we really regret it, a few months from now we can resign Eloy for cheap. Because no one will want him. Cause he's awful.

[46DidIt]

Trading a productive major leaguer under long term control for a solitary B- prospect is never a good idea IMO. If they got two Eders I could buy it. Straight up? nah

Edited August 14 by 46DidIt

[JoeC]

4 hours ago, hogan873 said:

How many threads do we need crying about the Burger trade?

Please start a Jake Burger Thread Tracking Thread

[Quin]

The mistake wasn't trading him, it was how it went down.

1) Hahn was working on a TA to Miami deal. Considering Burger was a last second move to Miami by Kenny, I'm guessing TA for Eder might have been the deal. Note: Pure speculation on my part.

2) Considering Burger was on fire and under a lot of control, they should have gotten more than Eder.

3) Hahn had a wild trade deadline on his way out (Quero, Bush and Lee alone make it a win), but @WhiteSox2023 is right: stop letting dudes about to be fired dictate trades.

 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, Quin said:

The mistake wasn't trading him, it was how it went down.

1) Hahn was working on a TA to Miami deal. Considering Burger was a last second move to Miami by Kenny, I'm guessing TA for Eder might have been the deal. Note: Pure speculation on my part.

2) Considering Burger was on fire and under a lot of control, they should have gotten more than Eder.

3) Hahn had a wild trade deadline on his way out (Quero, Bush and Lee alone make it a win), but @WhiteSox2023 is right: stop letting dudes about to be fired dictate trades.

 

 

Regarding #1, the rumored story behind the Burger trade was a ridiculous one.  The rumor I remember was that Hahn wanted to deal Tim Anderson to the Marlins but only Kenny, and not Hahn, was allowed to make trades with the Marlins (per Jerry’s rules) due to his close relationship with GM Kim Ng.  Hahn wanted to keep Burger but Kenny didn’t like him as a player and dealt him to the Marlins for Eder after finalizing the trade directly with Ng, without Hahn being involved at all.

Edited August 14 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Based on the fact he was still there means there was zero market, because they were selling anything that wasn't nailed down.

I don’t know about this.  Power is expensive and the Marlins still have 4 more years of control over Burger.  He hasn’t gotten expensive yet (only cost them $740K this year).  I’m sure, just like the Rays, the Marlins will be trading Burger once his arbitration years get expensive but he’s not quite there yet.

Edited August 14 by WhiteSox2023

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I don’t know about this.  Power is expensive and the Marlins still have 4 more years of control over Burger.  He hasn’t gotten expensive yet.  I’m sure, just like the Rays, the Marlins will be trading Burger once his arbitration years get expensive but he’s not quite there yet.

Plenty of guys had control who they dealt.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, T R U said:

Ok fine, he has a 1.3 fWAR. This is still not great. Being Mike Trout for 28 days doesn't erase the previous 90 days from existence.

The Fletcher trade really has nothing to do with Jake Burger. They don't play the same position, they aren't even remotely similar as players, and it was two different regimes. That trade sucked too by the way.

The fact remains, Jake Burger on the 2024 White Sox doesn't change the outcome of this season one bit. Jake Burger would never have seen the next competitive Sox team no matter what.

Trout Ohtani Betts and Matsumoto don’t get them to .500 either.

Throw in Soto and Tatis, too.