wrathofhahn Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/13/2024 at 11:16 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: No, and not even because he can’t stay healthy. Eloy is at -0.3 WAR. I would be surprised if the Orioles pick up his $16.5 million dollar option. He will likely be a free agent. Meanwhile, Burger is earning $760K with 4 more years of control. How valuable do you think Burger would be if he were traded in the upcoming offseason? Burger's only position of WAR value is third base, but he performs it so poorly defensively that you should constantly look to upgrade. If not, he is roughly a 730 to 770 OPS DH. In today's MLB, those are not particularly valuable. From my perspective we sold high even if the trade doesn't work out we should be doing more of these moves in the hopes 1 or 2 guys hit because the upside of Jake Eder before his injury was a front line starter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/14/2024 at 7:08 AM, hogan873 said: How many threads do we need crying about the Burger trade? I hate that the message boards force us to click on threads we know we hate simply from reading the title. I wish the board would create a way for us to skip threads we don’t like. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 6 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: I hate that the message boards force us to click on threads we know we hate simply from reading the title. I wish the board would create a way for us to skip threads we don’t like. Once you've read the threads you want, there's a "mark as read" button in the top-right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 12 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: I hate that the message boards force us to click on threads we know we hate simply from reading the title. I wish the board would create a way for us to skip threads we don’t like. Huh? You're being forced against your will to click into a thread you don't want to read? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 24 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: How valuable do you think Burger would be if he were traded in the upcoming offseason? Burger's only position of WAR value is third base, but he performs it so poorly defensively that you should constantly look to upgrade. If not, he is roughly a 730 to 770 OPS DH. In today's MLB, those are not particularly valuable. From my perspective we sold high even if the trade doesn't work out we should be doing more of these moves in the hopes 1 or 2 guys hit because the upside of Jake Eder before his injury was a front line starter It's a sad state of affairs when we are even discussing this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 Eder get get one guy out last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/14/2024 at 8:53 PM, southsider2k5 said: Be curious how much of that is Carlos Perez. Probably some, but 5 steals in 2 innings sort of tells you too many have the opportunity to steal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie for Manager Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 It's about time to acknowledge Eder is not a SP. Make the transition to RP and hope for the best. Just an awful trade overall. Hopefully we can salvage something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 59 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said: How valuable do you think Burger would be if he were traded in the upcoming offseason? Burger's only position of WAR value is third base, but he performs it so poorly defensively that you should constantly look to upgrade. If not, he is roughly a 730 to 770 OPS DH. In today's MLB, those are not particularly valuable. From my perspective we sold high even if the trade doesn't work out we should be doing more of these moves in the hopes 1 or 2 guys hit because the upside of Jake Eder before his injury was a front line starter Burger would be worth more to this team than both Eloy and Eder whether or not he was traded. Eloy is going to be a free agent once he is bought out and Eder may never even see the major leagues. Yes, with Eder, that is using hindsight but oh well. Maybe the Sox did sell Burger high but they got back crap. And Burger is currently at .770 OPS with a career OPS of .795. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 minutes ago, Ozzie for Manager said: It's about time to acknowledge Eder is not a SP. Make the transition to RP and hope for the best. Just an awful trade overall. Hopefully we can salvage something. In the grand scheme of things if we had Jake Burger we'd have 1 more win this year. On any sort of real franchise this would just be a deal that gets done every year and nobody really cares either way how it turns out. On our pathetic franchise it sticks out I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: It's a sad state of affairs when we are even discussing this. As far as state of affairs, the state of the White Sox couldn’t be any sadder. Edited August 21 by The Mighty Mite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 52 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: In the grand scheme of things if we had Jake Burger we'd have 1 more win this year. On any sort of real franchise this would just be a deal that gets done every year and nobody really cares either way how it turns out. On our pathetic franchise it sticks out I guess. He’s just one more asset they don’t have to trade now. As I mentioned last night, they have very little to show for a lot of players moved. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, fathom said: He’s just one more asset they don’t have to trade now. As I mentioned last night, they have very little to show for a lot of players moved. I never viewed him as a huge asset. On a good roster he's a DH. On a bad roster he plays 3B. To me he was always a marginal asset. It shouldn't be hard to find his replacement every year there are guys with his archetype available for minimal cost either via free agency, waiver wire, or minimal cost in a trade. Gio Urshela was just signed for free by the braves and he's a guy I would have preferred at 3B to Burger. To me the issue isn't trading Burger is we have wasted the year giving jobs to guys who have no buisness playing MLB baseball this was an opportunity to give guys looking to rebuild their career jobs and opportunities with the idea that if they had a good year they would be moved to a contender. Instead we signed trash and the few players that had bounceback years we got nothing in return. But yeah not just Gio but guys like Amed Rosario were available off the scrap heap too. It's not hard for smart teams to find useful players who can play positions I just don't put much value on a sub 1 WAR DH. Just because we suck at it doesn't mean we should irrationally value a player like Burger Edited August 21 by wrathofhahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 On 8/14/2024 at 2:08 AM, Dominikk85 said: I still understand trading him. When he is hot he is great but he also is a low on base percentage slugger with little defensive value and an extensive injury history. That type of Player usually doesn't age very well and even in their prime they can have long slumps. One month he might hit .190 with 1 homer and the next hit .300 with 9 homers. For now the bottom line has been fine (like 250 with 25-30 homers) but in his early 30s the 190 months could become more frequent and the 300 months less frequent and then he quickly is a replacement level player. The return for burger doesn't look good and they probably should have gotten a better return but the trade market for low OBP corner mashers is not really good in the modern game. I kinda understand the trade. Eder was struggling coming off surgery but before he was considered a high level pitching prospect. The alternative probably would have been to get a pair of lower variance high 40 fv guys (sox current 10-15 range in system) and maybe that would look better now but the ceiling of that is probably getting two bench bats or low leverage relievers. At least with Eder there was a chance he bounces back to #3 starter ceiling but of course also the risk he flames out of baseball and has no mlb career. The best option was to keep Burger with all that control. His slugging is very suitable for GRF. He is still hitting homers in Miami which is a pitcher friendly park. IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankchifan Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, fathom said: He’s just one more asset they don’t have to trade now. As I mentioned last night, they have very little to show for a lot of players moved. I agree. We got poor returns for trAding stars like Cease, Fedde and useful players like Kopech, Eloy and letting ReyLo, Bummer go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 hours ago, fathom said: He’s just one more asset they don’t have to trade now. As I mentioned last night, they have very little to show for a lot of players moved. I surmise that Williams wanted him gone for whatever reason. So he moved him out at the same time Hahn was dispatching the expiring contracts and other bullpen riffraff. I just consider him part of a big group that was moved out, the aggregate of which was positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrathofhahn Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 hours ago, GreenSox said: I surmise that Williams wanted him gone for whatever reason. So he moved him out at the same time Hahn was dispatching the expiring contracts and other bullpen riffraff. I just consider him part of a big group that was moved out, the aggregate of which was positive. Eder had value when we traded for him. Teams like the marlins don't make these kind of deals in the offseason. In the offseason they can bring in guys without having to surrender an asset. I know we suck at identifying talent in free agency but a sub .800 OPS DH isn't that valuable in todays MLB. We capitialized on an opportunity yes Eder hasn't worked out but the thought process of the trade was sound. We traded a sub 1 WAR DH for a former top pitching prospect who was coming back from injury, It was a gamble worth taking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: Eder had value when we traded for him. Teams like the marlins don't make these kind of deals in the offseason. In the offseason they can bring in guys without having to surrender an asset. I know we suck at identifying talent in free agency but a sub .800 OPS DH isn't that valuable in todays MLB. We capitialized on an opportunity yes Eder hasn't worked out but the thought process of the trade was sound. We traded a sub 1 WAR DH for a former top pitching prospect who was coming back from injury, It was a gamble worth taking Agreed on the trade making sense at the time. They should be held accountable for his regression, though. Maybe it's just a result of the TJ surgery, but Eder is looking like a release candidate right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 18 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: I never viewed him as a huge asset. On a good roster he's a DH. On a bad roster he plays 3B. To me he was always a marginal asset. It shouldn't be hard to find his replacement every year there are guys with his archetype available for minimal cost either via free agency, waiver wire, or minimal cost in a trade. Gio Urshela was just signed for free by the braves and he's a guy I would have preferred at 3B to Burger. To me the issue isn't trading Burger is we have wasted the year giving jobs to guys who have no buisness playing MLB baseball this was an opportunity to give guys looking to rebuild their career jobs and opportunities with the idea that if they had a good year they would be moved to a contender. Instead we signed trash and the few players that had bounceback years we got nothing in return. But yeah not just Gio but guys like Amed Rosario were available off the scrap heap too. It's not hard for smart teams to find useful players who can play positions I just don't put much value on a sub 1 WAR DH. Just because we suck at it doesn't mean we should irrationally value a player like Burger Urshela was horrible with the Tigers and got released, and he was alright last year in limited playing time either with the Angels. He wouldn't help anything. Rosario is an odd case. He can still hit, apparently, but his defense has been awful. He was traded for basically nothing to the Dodgers (again), then put on waivers and claimed by Cincinnati. Either his defense is that terrible, or there are some locker room concerns with him. DeJong was also a better signing by both bWAR and fWAR. Edited August 22 by almagest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, almagest said: Agreed on the trade making sense at the time. They should be held accountable for his regression, though. Maybe it's just a result of the TJ surgery, but Eder is looking like a release candidate right now. And god help us if Thorpe needs Tommy John. When Getz's one definitive win on the trade market is a 24-year-old AA reliever (Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa), that doesn't bode well for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 21 hours ago, wrathofhahn said: How valuable do you think Burger would be if he were traded in the upcoming offseason? Burger's only position of WAR value is third base, but he performs it so poorly defensively that you should constantly look to upgrade. If not, he is roughly a 730 to 770 OPS DH. In today's MLB, those are not particularly valuable. From my perspective we sold high even if the trade doesn't work out we should be doing more of these moves in the hopes 1 or 2 guys hit because the upside of Jake Eder before his injury was a front line starter Where is that range of OPS coming from? Hate to see hat you would extrapolate Eder's numbers to in the majors already discounting performance at the big league level now. Joke of a steal by the Marlins...who had to have a pretty strong belief that he had already peaked with them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Quin said: And god help us if Thorpe needs Tommy John. When Getz's one definitive win on the trade market is a 24-year-old AA reliever (Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa), that doesn't bode well for the future. I don't think we can say Thorpe is doomed if he gets TJ since the general success rate of pitchers who get it is so high. Eder just might be in that outlier bucket. Or, maybe he's the "wrong kind" of lefty starter and the Sox can't reach him, which is either a player dev problem, or Eder just sucks now. Given the Sox general strength with pitching this year and the job Bannister has been doing, I'd lean more on the latter. I also think the Thorpe trade was solid at the time. Thorpe was MiLB pitcher of the year and a top 50-ish prospect. Zavala has talent and had a great year last year. The Sox just need to figure out how to work with him. Wilson was questionable but I see the rationale. He's arb eligible and I assume they'll give him another year to build some value/hopefully provide a more stable bullpen presence next year. We'll see what Getz does in the offseason with Crochet and maybe Robert, though I suspect Robert stays one more year at least given his bad 2024 so far. Edited August 22 by almagest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zisk Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Jake is better than Vaughn or Sheets. He is 4-5 inches taller than AV and should have been our 1B this year. He is better than anyone we've played at 3B as well. Plus he's not a sourpuss. One thing about this years team is every player on it has under achieved. Jake plays hard and with a smile. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 10 minutes ago, zisk said: Jake is better than Vaughn or Sheets. He is 4-5 inches taller than AV and should have been our 1B this year. He is better than anyone we've played at 3B as well. Plus he's not a sourpuss. One thing about this years team is every player on it has under achieved. Jake plays hard and with a smile. I liked the guy and his attitude and was sad to see him go. As you said he would be the best player on the 2024 White Sox. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 On 8/21/2024 at 12:53 PM, Bob Sacamano said: Huh? You're being forced against your will to click into a thread you don't want to read? Cough … sarcasm … cough 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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