Lip Man 1 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 It would help if ownership cared enough to invest in proper scouting and development in my opinion: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 If I was suddenly in charge I would double or triple the going salaries for top FO & scouting talent and poach from the best organizations. Take the $35M or whatever wasted on vets every year and pump it directly into the infrastructure instead. Let Corlas, Baldwin, Dickman type guys start. You never know 5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 1 hour ago, Jerksticks said: If I was suddenly in charge I would double or triple the going salaries for top FO & scouting talent and poach from the best organizations. Take the $35M or whatever wasted on vets every year and pump it directly into the infrastructure instead. Let Corlas, Baldwin, Dickman type guys start. You never know It wouldn't cost but a small fraction of that much. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 13 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: It wouldn't cost but a small fraction of that much. How big of a raise would it take for someone from a top organization to leave to that over the Sox in the same role? That's one person. I think by the end of the process of hiring many more it would be a considerable amount of money. We're not even a good stepping stone for talented people to fast track their careers. There is a high price for being an historically bad franchise. Then the next problem. Explaining that after we invested all this money on FO talent there is no money left over to pay for top players. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 41 minutes ago, Texsox said: How big of a raise would it take for someone from a top organization to leave to that over the Sox in the same role? That's one person. I think by the end of the process of hiring many more it would be a considerable amount of money. We're not even a good stepping stone for talented people to fast track their careers. There is a high price for being an historically bad franchise. Then the next problem. Explaining that after we invested all this money on FO talent there is no money left over to pay for top players. It likely still wouldn’t cost $25 million. And even if it did, many people would be happy that it would be $25 million less that Getz would have a chance to burn on terrible player acquisitions like he did last offseason. I’ve already listed out all of the bums he acquired in other threads, and yes they all cost a combined $25 million for a combined negative WAR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reiks12 Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 16 hours ago, Jerksticks said: If I was suddenly in charge I would double or triple the going salaries for top FO & scouting talent and poach from the best organizations. Take the $35M or whatever wasted on vets every year and pump it directly into the infrastructure instead. Let Corlas, Baldwin, Dickman type guys start. You never know Jerry wouldn't do that because then the teams have the chance to be good. He doesn't want the franchise to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 As I listened to this, my feeling was that he sounds like he knows what he’s doing. And then I got to the 27 minute mark where he said that Jacob Gonzalez has had a good year….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 30 minutes ago, reiks12 said: Jerry wouldn't do that because then the teams have the chance to be good. He doesn't want the franchise to succeed. Also Jerry wouldn’t do that because it takes work. He’s essentially a shitty landlord who only wants to do the bare minimum. Here’s a piece of scotch tape for the crack in your foundation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 3 minutes ago, Snopek said: Also Jerry wouldn’t do that because it takes work. He’s essentially a shitty landlord who only wants to do the bare minimum. Here’s a piece of scotch tape for the crack in your foundation. I think this is totally correct, and he also doesn’t want to do things than the way they are done now. He doesn’t want to meet a bunch of new people, doesn’t want new voices, doesn’t want to change the “fabric” on the White Sox. Frustrating as hell, but I believe that’s the case 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 20 hours ago, Jerksticks said: If I was suddenly in charge I would double or triple the going salaries for top FO & scouting talent and poach from the best organizations. Take the $35M or whatever wasted on vets every year and pump it directly into the infrastructure instead. Let Corlas, Baldwin, Dickman type guys start. You never know No one in the sport would ever do this because it would go against the collusion that exists across all industry. Baseball analytics/leadership has an expected pay-band same as any other profession and those pay bands are the culmination of - in my opinion - illegal salary setting guidance from "survey" data gathered by consulting agencies and etc. I know because I work in this space. There are some legal challenges finally coming forward very recently about pay bands and survey gathering. This does two things - it assures that employees don't ever have the ability to do exactly what you're stating, because no competitor would ever pay 200-300% of a given pay band range because you then don't fit in the range, and it artificially suppresses wages across all industry as it sets your value to a company not based on what you provide, but based on what people that are not you provide in completely different roles in different orgs. So while this is a great idea, the reality is the Sox can offer maybe 25% more than the median salary of that position and Jerry is probably the guy fighting to keep those bands lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 4 hours ago, Tony said: I think this is totally correct, and he also doesn’t want to do things than the way they are done now. He doesn’t want to meet a bunch of new people, doesn’t want new voices, doesn’t want to change the “fabric” on the White Sox. Frustrating as hell, but I believe that’s the case Both of you hit the nail on the head. My hope is the current trainwreck forces a different view and a willingness to adept but I'm not optimistic on that path. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 14 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It likely still wouldn’t cost $25 million. And even if it did, many people would be happy that it would be $25 million less that Getz would have a chance to burn on terrible player acquisitions like he did last offseason. I’ve already listed out all of the bums he acquired in other threads, and yes they all cost a combined $25 million for a combined negative WAR. So the key to success is less money to spend on players? JR approves of this message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 14 minutes ago, Texsox said: So the key to success is less money to spend on players? JR approves of this message. What do the Sox have to show right now for Getz spending $25+ million last offseason on mostly bad players? Miguel Vargas? Oh joy… I’d rather the Sox spend that money on their minor league system so they can actually develop and churn out their own players rather than let Getz waste another $25+ million next offseason on bums. We’ve seen the dumpster diving strategy employed year after year and it doesn’t work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 And what would that minor league money go to? How would they spend it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 hours ago, Texsox said: And what would that minor league money go to? How would they spend it? The best instructors. The best talent evaluators. Fixing the Latin America facilities. Using all of the international allotment instead of trading it for salary relief. Better personnel means better players. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joejoesox Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 On 8/20/2024 at 5:16 PM, southsider2k5 said: It wouldn't cost but a small fraction of that much. exactly, head coaches barely make anything at the MLB level outside of maybe 5 guys, scouts/development guys probably don't come close to a million/year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, Dick Allen said: The best instructors. The best talent evaluators. Fixing the Latin America facilities. Using all of the international allotment instead of trading it for salary relief. Better personnel means better players. And what happens when we have to pay those better players? They leave. My point is taking money from one area to fix the other just digs another hole. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 31 minutes ago, Texsox said: And what happens when we have to pay those better players? They leave. My point is taking money from one area to fix the other just digs another hole. Poor Jerry. 😢 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Texsox said: And what happens when we have to pay those better players? They leave. My point is taking money from one area to fix the other just digs another hole. I know this is a troll reponse, but the one time JR really committed to a rebuild and draft and development, he had the best run of success of his tenure. Of course he had to ruin it by making sure a strike cancelled a World Series. Then he went to the current model and brought in John Kruk and Chris Sabo. They could pay the best guys ,and draft better players, and over a 5 year stretch, it would be cheaper than Andrew Benintendi. But yes men rule at 35th and Shields. Kiss the ring, job for close to life. Just think how bad Rick Hahn had to be to get fired, Edited August 22 by Dick Allen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, Texsox said: And what happens when we have to pay those better players? They leave. My point is taking money from one area to fix the other just digs another hole. I get your point but it seems like the one path to sustained success is the pipeline. That’s it. Having the best pipeline should be the investment 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 hours ago, Texsox said: And what happens when we have to pay those better players? They leave. My point is taking money from one area to fix the other just digs another hole. They leave, and they are replaced by the next batch of young, cheap players. You invest in the pipeline, and you get a constant churn of young, controllable talent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 hours ago, JoeC said: They leave, and they are replaced by the next batch of young, cheap players. You invest in the pipeline, and you get a constant churn of young, controllable talent. The most maddening thing is that there is no reason why the Chicago White Sox couldn't draft & develop MLB talent regularly while also carrying a $150M payroll and be in the postseason hunt year after year. JR is the sole roadblock. His chairmanship has destroyed the team, the org, and the fanbase; possibly irreparably. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 15 hours ago, Dick Allen said: I know this is a troll reponse, but the one time JR really committed to a rebuild and draft and development, he had the best run of success of his tenure. Of course he had to ruin it by making sure a strike cancelled a World Series. Then he went to the current model and brought in John Kruk and Chris Sabo. They could pay the best guys ,and draft better players, and over a 5 year stretch, it would be cheaper than Andrew Benintendi. But yes men rule at 35th and Shields. Kiss the ring, job for close to life. Just think how bad Rick Hahn had to be to get fired, Not a troll at all. We never build. If we have something of value we use it to fill a hole. The answer of course is to invest in the system WITHOUT taking money away from the payroll. The reason we suck year after year is the constant taking away from areas that are barely good to eliminate the problem areas. It's literally rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 15 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Poor Jerry. 😢 Exactly. Taking money from salaries to do what is necessary in the rest of system is an idiot Jerry move to protect his profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 11 hours ago, Texsox said: Exactly. Taking money from salaries to do what is necessary in the rest of system is an idiot Jerry move to protect his profits. Initials costs to beef up scouting and player development would be more expensive but the continuing cost once everything is in place would be less. Yes personnel will need annual COLA but computer , biomechanical and other machines and facilities would only need periodical changes when they become outdated every 5 yrs or so. In every system there is personnel to do grunt work which goes to interns but there are intelligent people graduating with degrees in these areas too with a passion for sports sciences. You'd need a good headhunter and competitive wage scale with good benefits. I don't know how it works as far as number of year round full time employees there are but Tampa Bay has been doing it for years and always does pretty well. I'm pretty sure JR could make it work and would have more money to spend then the Rays ownership does The Rays have never won a World Series yet. But if the Sox could emulate TB success in the toughest division in baseball with top spending teams like the Yankees and Red Sox , surely it can be done against teams in the Central who don't spend top money. Cleveland is already trying to become the TB of the AL Central. They're winning and have a top farm system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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