How can Getz and Barfield both be so bad at finding infielders

[caulfield12]

As both are career below-average 2B?

I can understand misdiagnosing pitching, catching and outfield play…

But we doubled down on Moncada when he was leaving at the end of season regardless, wasting $29 million and simultaneously traded away Burger…

Ramos has regressed…

Montgomery has regressed…

Gonzalez and Baldwin were both pushed up too quickly after experiencing a little bit of success.

Lopez and Shewmake were just not good moves.

Have one of the worst defensive 1B in modern baseball in Vaughn.

Sosa despite claims he starts off slow and then adjusts looks mired in the 500s ops-wise yet again.

VargUs?

Well, he might be the worst player in baseball.

And Tim Anderson wasn’t traded last year when that should have been the choice over dumping Burger, pretty much regardless of the projected return. 
 

And we illogically insist on keeping Sheets around yet again for one of his invariable hot swings…name only mentioned as he should be 1B/DH only.

DeJong was the only one we got right…but then we traded him to a divisional rival to help them to the WC.

They better be right NOT acquiring Keaschall AND drafting Bonemer, because they have a truly shitty record on middle infield prospects, where they SHOULD have the MOST expertise but seemingly have the least.  Anyone on SoxTalk could get 1/10 prospect moves right.  ChatBots should be smoking the Sox at this point.

4. Luke

Keaschall

2B/OF, Wichita Wind Surge, AA

Twins
Top 30

 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

Their biggest whiff was actually on an outfielder — choosing Little Person Fletcher over Jake McCarthy.

But yeah, Getz taking Vargas back over Twins prospect Luke Keaschall should just be yet another nail in his career coffin as an MLB GM.

Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Their biggest whiff was actually on an outfielder — choosing Little Person Fletcher over Jake McCarthy.

But yeah, Getz taking Vargas back over Twins prospect Luke Keaschall should just be yet another nail in his career coffin as an MLB GM.

In terms of impact though, getting zero return for Fedde/Kopech/Pham and the possibility of Robert being mostly a salary dump and Crochet bringing back 50-75% of what he should have gotten this past trade deadline.

They had a chance to build a Crochet/Smith/Schultz led rotation for the future OR OR OR building around Crochet’s trade return (position players), Wetherholt/Cags and Robert and will end up going in neither direction, without ANY discernible plan moving forward, a defense or a bullpen.

[Dick Allen]

It doesn’t appear anyone has to ability to either recognize or develop offensive  talent. Since they are not going to be spending, that gives really no hope for the future. You still have to score to win.  I go back to if Crochet and Fedde actually pitched closer to where they were projected, as historically bad as this team has been, they would be even worse.  I don’t see them losing less than 90 games a year for the foreseeable future. They still have to score runs. Even an idiot like me who has never been paid a dime by an MLB team knew from the get go offense was a problem. How do they not see it?

Edited August 25 by Dick Allen

[Chick Mercedes]

Finding outfielders though…

 

 

 

[baseball_gal_aly]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

1 minute ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

 

And we didn't think it could get worse than Maldonado lol

[oldsox]

For Fedde, Pham, and Kopech.

[WhiteSox2023]

25 minutes ago, oldsox said:

For Fedde, Pham, and Kopech.

He succeeded so much on the Fedde acquisition only to botch the return for him so epically bad.  He wasted his own trade asset.

Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

He succeeded so much on the Fedde acquisition only to botch the return for him so epically bad.  He wasted his own trade asset.

Yeah…it really is a punch in the dick.

[Timmy U]

I called it at the time. Fedde trade was a complete and unmitigated disaster. Whoever recommended him should be fired along with Getz. Not like you couldn’t see this when Vargas was a Dodger. You could.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

I called it at the time. Fedde trade was a complete and unmitigated disaster. Whoever recommended him should be fired along with Getz. Not like you couldn’t see this when Vargas was a Dodger. You could.

Maybe those are the scouts they're paying to not scout, right now. 

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

I called it at the time. Fedde trade was a complete and unmitigated disaster. Whoever recommended him should be fired along with Getz. Not like you couldn’t see this when Vargas was a Dodger. You could.

True. Vargas had to have been shoved down Getz's throat.  Quite a bit like the time when Preller shoved Shields down Hahn's throat.  Those SoCal GM's must be laughing.  If this were truly the age of accountability (it isn't), then Getz should tell us how this trade went down.

[WhiteSox2023]

59 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Maybe those are the scouts they're paying to not scout, right now. 

For this decision, Getz likely listened to Mike Tosar, the former Dodgers scout that initially signed Vargas.  Mike Tosar, also the same Sox assistant hitting coach that was fired a week after Vargas was acquired.

 

Edited August 26 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

KW trades Burger for Eder, fired in the following month...

Tosar key influence on Vargas acquisition...

Barfield main influence on Fletcher over McCarthy...

 

"Assistant hitting coach Mike Tosar and third base coach Eddie Rodríguez. The latter two are long-time friends and associates of Grifol, dating back multiple organizations.

"As the season began, it was the first time really with to work closely with Pedro, with this staff from Opening Day on. Recognized there was some misalignments along the way. Some different belief systems, and there was lack of production overall. You look at how many games that we’ve led early and weren’t able to finish or how many games we haven’t been able to come back to get a win. Obviously there was something that was broken.”

https://soxmachine.com/2024/08/pedro-grifol-was-fired-by-the-white-sox-what-did-chris-getz-have-to-say-about-it/

Or how many games they haven't been able to come from behind after training through 5/6 innings??? Truly abysmal numbers.

 

(Also truly surprised Tosar and Pedro didn't go after former Miami Hurricane Zack Collins with all their U connections lol. Or Hostetler to Heyward with the Braves.)

Edited August 26 by caulfield12

[Harry Chappas]

They are both really bad at everything.   I am openly rooting against Vargas and Fletcher at this point in hopes of a house cleaning yet again as a result.

[Dick Allen]

19 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

KW trades Burger for Eder, fired in the following month...

Tosar key influence on Vargas acquisition...

Barfield main influence on Fletcher over McCarthy...

 

"Assistant hitting coach Mike Tosar and third base coach Eddie Rodríguez. The latter two are long-time friends and associates of Grifol, dating back multiple organizations.

"As the season began, it was the first time really with to work closely with Pedro, with this staff from Opening Day on. Recognized there was some misalignments along the way. Some different belief systems, and there was lack of production overall. You look at how many games that we’ve led early and weren’t able to finish or how many games we haven’t been able to come back to get a win. Obviously there was something that was broken.”

https://soxmachine.com/2024/08/pedro-grifol-was-fired-by-the-white-sox-what-did-chris-getz-have-to-say-about-it/

Or how many games they haven't been able to come from behind after training through 5/6 innings??? Truly abysmal numbers.

 

(Also truly surprised Tosar and Pedro didn't go after former Miami Hurricane Zack Collins with all their U connections lol. Or Hostetler to Heyward with the Braves.)

They have yet to win a game this season when trailing after 6 innings. 

[ScootsMcGoots]

This org is screwed. Can someone legitimately explain to me why I should have any hope in this team contending for anything, even a last wildcard spot, in the next 5 years? The minor league system is nothing to get excited about. History suggests good free agents won't sign here even if the Sox knew how to sign good ones (which they don't). Fedde is the exception. The only decent thing about this team is the starting pitching, but that doesn't matter when your bullpen is trash and the rest of the team can't field OR swing the bat. 

[JoeC]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

They have yet to win a game this season when trailing after 6 innings. 

They've also lost (checks notes) 100 games when tied going into the 1st inning.

[wegner]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

They have yet to win a game this season when trailing after 6 innings. 

There are a decent number of bullpens that are just not very good....not as bad as the White Sox but still not very good. It is absolutely astounding that a major league ballclub cannot score against any of those other bullpens.

I know some people here do not want to hear the broken record of fire Getz but the man has absolutely no idea how to evaluate talent. There is no reason he should be employed after this season with the bullpen and offense that he assembled...along with totally screwing the pooch at a trade deadline that was supposed to be a sellers' market.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, wegner said:

There are a decent number of bullpens that are just not very good....not as bad as the White Sox but still not very good. It is absolutely astounding that a major league ballclub cannot score against any of those other bullpens.

I know some people here do not want to hear the broken record of fire Getz but the man has absolutely no idea how to evaluate talent. There is no reason he should be employed after this season with the bullpen and offense that he assembled...along with totally screwing the pooch at a trade deadline that was supposed to be a sellers' market.

I think some have become desensitized to exactly how bad this team.  There are multiple parts which are historically bad, and literally none of it is good, or even mediocre.  They have earned every single bit of the horrible historic events they keep making.

[wegner]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think some have become desensitized to exactly how bad this team.  There are multiple parts which are historically bad, and literally none of it is good, or even mediocre.  They have earned every single bit of the horrible historic events they keep making.

Preach Brother!!!

[kitekrazy]

LOL just LOL!

When has the organization had any luck with position players.  Sad what happened to Anderson.

Drafting a non athletic 1B,  small infielder who thought he was Ricky Henderson on he bases and with base running ability of Florence Henderson, Zack Collins, these choices have long term failure. 

They might revisit that everlasting hole in CF if they get rid of Robert.

Plus the free agent market isn't what it use to be. More and more you see some established players without a contract entering  Spring Training.

I think with the larger amount of injuries you need a good farm just to have players being adequate to fill in while being developed.

Instead of trying to get other team's prospects try getting their scouts.

Maybe the Burger trade was their payback for JR choosing the manager. 

Maybe some of the incompetence is just to sabotage JR.

[Lip Man 1]

35 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

LOL just LOL!

When has the organization had any luck with position players.  Sad what happened to Anderson.

Drafting a non athletic 1B,  small infielder who thought he was Ricky Henderson on he bases and with base running ability of Florence Henderson, Zack Collins, these choices have long term failure. 

They might revisit that everlasting hole in CF if they get rid of Robert.

Plus the free agent market isn't what it use to be. More and more you see some established players without a contract entering  Spring Training.

I think with the larger amount of injuries you need a good farm just to have players being adequate to fill in while being developed.

Instead of trying to get other team's prospects try getting their scouts.

Maybe the Burger trade was their payback for JR choosing the manager. 

Maybe some of the incompetence is just to sabotage JR.

As crazy as it sounds I was told things along the lines you are suggesting in the story I did on the State of the Sox which came out in November 2022. 

“Things started to change when Howard Pizer (Author’s Note: Pizer is the Senior Executive Vice-President) was told that he’d no longer be in charge of everyone, that some folks would no longer have to answer to him. That opened the door and some people are trying to get themselves into position to become a team president. Folks aren’t telling JR everything; in some cases they are lying to him.”

“Howard Pizer was the only guy who could tell JR ‘no’ and stop something. If people are angling to try to become a vice-president or president that’s just embarrassing.”

“I know the friction in the front office just wore Bob Grim down.” (Author’s Note: Grim retired after 30 years with the organization. He was the Senior Director of Business Development and Broadcasting)

“Here’s a story about scouting/development. Nick Hostetler was ‘promoted’ to the Special Assistant to the Vice-President/General Manager. He was ‘promoted’ because he was overheard complaining about a scout in Arizona, Ken Williams Junior. Someone got their revenge. I liked Nick, he was independent, he was his own guy.”  

“People wonder why Dennis Gilbert (Author’s Note: Special Assistant to the Chairman) is around.”

“Mike Shirley is the darling of amateur scouts right now. (Author’s Note: Shirley is the Director of Amateur Scouting) He’s the power broker. I heard him saying that he’s been in baseball a long time, I looked up his career and it was only a couple of years maybe a half season of at-bats.”

“I think Chris Getz (Author’s Note: Getz is an Assistant General Manager and in charge of Player Development) is getting to much power to soon but I like him, he’s got some interesting ideas.”

“There are department heads in the organization who don’t know what they are doing, worse, all they care about is getting ahead themselves, some of them are real snakes.”

“Wintrust offered a much better deal than Guaranteed Rate but part of what Wintrust wanted is the name had to be changed back to Comiskey Park and JR didn’t like that at all. He also wasn’t told some of the details in the agreement that may have made a difference had he knew.”

 

 

[The Mighty Mite]

18 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As crazy as it sounds I was told things along the lines you are suggesting in the story I did on the State of the Sox which came out in November 2022. 

“Things started to change when Howard Pizer (Author’s Note: Pizer is the Senior Executive Vice-President) was told that he’d no longer be in charge of everyone, that some folks would no longer have to answer to him. That opened the door and some people are trying to get themselves into position to become a team president. Folks aren’t telling JR everything; in some cases they are lying to him.”

“Howard Pizer was the only guy who could tell JR ‘no’ and stop something. If people are angling to try to become a vice-president or president that’s just embarrassing.”

“I know the friction in the front office just wore Bob Grim down.” (Author’s Note: Grim retired after 30 years with the organization. He was the Senior Director of Business Development and Broadcasting)

“Here’s a story about scouting/development. Nick Hostetler was ‘promoted’ to the Special Assistant to the Vice-President/General Manager. He was ‘promoted’ because he was overheard complaining about a scout in Arizona, Ken Williams Junior. Someone got their revenge. I liked Nick, he was independent, he was his own guy.”  

“People wonder why Dennis Gilbert (Author’s Note: Special Assistant to the Chairman) is around.”

“Mike Shirley is the darling of amateur scouts right now. (Author’s Note: Shirley is the Director of Amateur Scouting) He’s the power broker. I heard him saying that he’s been in baseball a long time, I looked up his career and it was only a couple of years maybe a half season of at-bats.”

“I think Chris Getz (Author’s Note: Getz is an Assistant General Manager and in charge of Player Development) is getting to much power to soon but I like him, he’s got some interesting ideas.”

“There are department heads in the organization who don’t know what they are doing, worse, all they care about is getting ahead themselves, some of them are real snakes.”

“Wintrust offered a much better deal than Guaranteed Rate but part of what Wintrust wanted is the name had to be changed back to Comiskey Park and JR didn’t like that at all. He also wasn’t told some of the details in the agreement that may have made a difference had he knew.”

 

 

Why would Wintrust want the ballpark named Comiskey and not Wintrust. For me there was only one Comiskey Park and I wasn’t for the new park named Comiskey back when it opened in 1991, it should have been named White Sox Park.

Edited August 27 by The Mighty Mite