CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 hours ago, Chick Mercedes said: Anyone can say they want to win, but only the ones that bleed for winning truly want to win. That isn’t wanting to win. Not really. That’s just a small step higher than, “Doesn’t care at all”. Exactly. Goal 1 is make money for himself his investors and his heirs. Goal 2 is to win. It's a top priority until it interferes with Goal 1 which with his ultra coversative approach, it happens all the time . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 hour ago, Chick Mercedes said: The problem for me, and I will stop saying this, are the implications. We wanted outside hires because the organization itself is so rotten. So, I lament that nothing has changed apparently. And Chris sadly acknowledges the state of the organization. I don’t mind hiring outsiders. You probably have to if you’re being thorough. Chances are the best talent is outside the organization just by the sheer odds. But Getz threw the organization and its people under the bus. Which it probably deserves to be. And this is his bus. That’s the problem. This is his bus. One day, this team will have arrived when it does not say we need outside people. Isn't the main window for hiring the GM meetings, or the owners' meetings in December? Getz was hired in mid-August, giving him about 10 weeks of baseball activity to evaluate the organization. My guess is that he fixed one area with the Bannister hire, and then gave himself a year to evaluate the rest of the operation. I don't see him answering questions honestly (which is what everyone's screaming for) about different areas (hitting development, international scouting, etc) as throwing people under the bus, or admitting that he was at fault for those people being there in the first place. He actually gave everybody in the organization an entire year to either expose or exonerate themselves. Marco Paddy's biggest international signing this cycle (Eduardo Herrera) just OPSed .573 in the Dominican League. It's good that the GM is recognizing areas that aren't producing, and is openly talking about moving on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Exactly. Goal 1 is make money for himself his investors and his heirs. Goal 2 is to win. It's a top priority until it interferes with Goal 1 which with his ultra coversative approach, it happens all the time . Which was confirmed when he tried to extort over$1 billion from the state recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) 3 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Isn't the main window for hiring the GM meetings, or the owners' meetings in December? Getz was hired in mid-August, giving him about 10 weeks of baseball activity to evaluate the organization. My guess is that he fixed one area with the Bannister hire, and then gave himself a year to evaluate the rest of the operation. I don't see him answering questions honestly (which is what everyone's screaming for) about different areas (hitting development, international scouting, etc) as throwing people under the bus, or admitting that he was at fault for those people being there in the first place. He actually gave everybody in the organization an entire year to either expose or exonerate themselves. Marco Paddy's biggest international signing this cycle (Eduardo Herrera) just OPSed .573 in the Dominican League. It's good that the GM is recognizing areas that aren't producing, and is openly talking about moving on. He was the assistant GM. Hasn't he been evaluating the organization for years? He sucks more as an executive than he did as a player. Edited August 25 by Dick Allen 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: 31-99 confirms he is in over his head. So does whatever he ate for breakfast today. I get it. You don't like Chris Getz. What's your point beyond that? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said: As you once told me when I was calling for Hahn’s head, what difference does it make, they will just hire Getz. And you were right about that more ways than one. I don’t think any of this makes much of a difference, at least with building a good team. A correct hire at manager and whatever other positions they decide to change may keep them from setting more records for futility, but will never make them what we want them to be. For that to happen, JR would need to realize he isn’t a baseball genius, and needs something other than a yes man to make his team decent. Larry Himes may have been the last Sox GM to actually stand up to him. It's probably why he was fired . @Lip Man 1 Did Himes ever disclose why he was fired .He was pretty successful as I recall drafting some big names that turned the Sox into a very strong team. Edited August 25 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 17 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Isn't the main window for hiring the GM meetings, or the owners' meetings in December? Getz was hired in mid-August, giving him about 10 weeks of baseball activity to evaluate the organization. My guess is that he fixed one area with the Bannister hire, and then gave himself a year to evaluate the rest of the operation. I don't see him answering questions honestly (which is what everyone's screaming for) about different areas (hitting development, international scouting, etc) as throwing people under the bus, or admitting that he was at fault for those people being there in the first place. He actually gave everybody in the organization an entire year to either expose or exonerate themselves. Marco Paddy's biggest international signing this cycle (Eduardo Herrera) just OPSed .573 in the Dominican League. It's good that the GM is recognizing areas that aren't producing, and is openly talking about moving on. But none of this explains the horrible trade deadline he just had. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: He was the assistant GM. Hasn't he been evaluating the organization for years? He sucks more as an executive than he did as a player. Yeah, he probably has. That's why he picked one area to completely redo as his first act, bring in Bannister, and overhaul pitching development. And that seems to have worked out very well. So you've proven to me that Getz seems to know what he's doing, and is executing well. He probably took a hard look at amateur and international scouting, letting Paddy complete a full scouting cycle with some new direction to see how he proceeded. He probably was told to hold on to Grifol and his coaches, give him a couple "clubhouse leaders" to see how he managed, and that played out. Pretending that Getz was solely responsible for every part of every mess he inherited is silly. The illogic of those assertions make me cut Getz even more slack. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 2 minutes ago, fathom said: But none of this explains the horrible trade deadline he just had. Horrible? Everything I've read says that the Fedde trade looks like he came up one prospect short, and the rest (Eloy, Banks, DeJong) were actually good trades. Miguel Vargas was a top 40 prospect just last year, so I'm going to wait and see on him for a little bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 hour ago, Snopek said: If only there were a huge swath of middle ground where one could rationally exist. You are a Getz defender .Shame on you ! What ? Oh you're in the grey area that's made up of JR is the much bigger problem , were stuck with Getz until JR figures out that Getz is doing things he doesn't like or is incompetent or JR becomes no more , and his heirs sell the team ? Welcome !! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 18 minutes ago, fathom said: But none of this explains the horrible trade deadline he just had. I am still waiting for Getz to trade his other valuable flip candidates including Brebbia, Flexen, and Lopez, along with Sheets… 🤣 Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 5 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: How many different threads are you gonna have the lightbulb come on and say “I don’t think they are gonna spend any money next year” this has to be like 15 Maybe a letter to Jerry is in order? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 16 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Horrible? Everything I've read says that the Fedde trade looks like he came up one prospect short, and the rest (Eloy, Banks, DeJong) were actually good trades. Miguel Vargas was a top 40 prospect just last year, so I'm going to wait and see on him for a little bit. It was a universally panned trade by almost all baseball writers, and that was before Vargas performed as the worst player in baseball. His batted ball metrics make it very unlikely he amounts to anything. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I’m glad that there are more outside hires coming. It’s a huge positive. Chris Getz didn’t hire himself. I’d personally prefer to be optimistic about this plan instead of just bitching and moaning over things I can’t control every day. Maybe that’s just me though. I personally welcome our new overlords! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 49 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: This presumes that Getz is actually the decision maker and not merely a public facing middle manager following orders from above. Absolutely. The reason you hire a Chris Getz is because he’s desperate for the position, and is completely malleable. Would Jerry ever in his life hire someone good that is used to being independent? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 23 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Horrible? Everything I've read says that the Fedde trade looks like he came up one prospect short, and the rest (Eloy, Banks, DeJong) were actually good trades. Miguel Vargas was a top 40 prospect just last year, so I'm going to wait and see on him for a little bit. -His trades have looked short -He has a good eye for scrap heap pitching. other than that, I got nothing. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 10 minutes ago, fathom said: It was a universally panned trade by almost all baseball writers, and that was before Vargas performed as the worst player in baseball. His batted ball metrics make it very unlikely he amounts to anything. Seems pretty obvious that Getz took back exactly whom the Dodgers were looking to dump — a former top prospect whose initial shine had turned to tarnish after almost a full season of awful at bats in the majors. Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 6 minutes ago, fathom said: It was a universally panned trade by almost all baseball writers, and that was before Vargas performed as the worst player in baseball. His batted ball metrics make it very unlikely he amounts to anything. Keith Law had no criticism of the Fedde trade, James Fox felt it was a prospect short. I do think Getz got taken in by the 3-team malarkey. There were no top 100 prospects traded this deadline, and Vargas was a top 40 just last year, so I'm willing to give him an off-season to see if they work with him. Kopech was horrible until about 2 outings before the trade deadline. We could have gotten more if he was traded on his own, but it's not like we were trading a shut down closer with a great track record. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 23 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Yeah, he probably has. That's why he picked one area to completely redo as his first act, bring in Bannister, and overhaul pitching development. And that seems to have worked out very well. So you've proven to me that Getz seems to know what he's doing, and is executing well. He probably took a hard look at amateur and international scouting, letting Paddy complete a full scouting cycle with some new direction to see how he proceeded. He probably was told to hold on to Grifol and his coaches, give him a couple "clubhouse leaders" to see how he managed, and that played out. Pretending that Getz was solely responsible for every part of every mess he inherited is silly. The illogic of those assertions make me cut Getz even more slack. At this point if JR fired Getz it would make me think Getz is actually trying to improve scouting and development and JR would consider that a breach of his trust. What are you doing Gez ? I told you to allocate most of the budget to player acquisitions. What do you mean by I can't get any good players with $50M ? You're fired ! I'm sure it's just me but Getz seems like he's sneakily throwing JR under the bus with some of the things he's been saying. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Seems pretty obvious that Getz took back exactly whom the Dodgers were looking to dump — a former top prospect whose initial shine had turned to tarnish after almost a full season of awful at bats in the majors. The guy who calls every move a disaster evaluates this trade as ..... a disaster!! I am surprise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: At this point if JR fired Getz it would make me think Getz is actually trying to improve scouting and development and JR would consider that a breach of his trust. What are you doing Gez ? I told you to allocate most of the budget to player acquisitions. What do you mean by I can't get any good players with $50M ? You're fired ! I'm sure it's just me but Getz seems like he's sneakily throwing JR under the bus with some of the things he's been saying. Nobody thought this team was going to be good. Maybe the complete tank was a way to get JR to focus on modernization. At least that's what I'm hoping. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 hours ago, Boopa1219 said: What’s the point of this? People here have been clamoring for the Sox to make outside hires for years, and now the team has a GM who’s committed to doing that. Because that GM is an incompetent boob in over his head? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 35 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Yeah, he probably has. That's why he picked one area to completely redo as his first act, bring in Bannister, and overhaul pitching development. And that seems to have worked out very well. So you've proven to me that Getz seems to know what he's doing, and is executing well. He probably took a hard look at amateur and international scouting, letting Paddy complete a full scouting cycle with some new direction to see how he proceeded. He probably was told to hold on to Grifol and his coaches, give him a couple "clubhouse leaders" to see how he managed, and that played out. Pretending that Getz was solely responsible for every part of every mess he inherited is silly. The illogic of those assertions make me cut Getz even more slack. Yeah everything that has worked out thus far proves he’s a genius. Everything where’s he come up short, he was told to hold off. He’s responsible for the organization as the GM. They are 68 games under .500 The Angels have the 144th worst record in the AL. They are 22. games worse than the best record. The Sox are 23 games worse than the Angels. How’s your boy Nastrini doing? Or the lockdown bullpen you told us Getz has assembled? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 54 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Isn't the main window for hiring the GM meetings, or the owners' meetings in December? Getz was hired in mid-August, giving him about 10 weeks of baseball activity to evaluate the organization. My guess is that he fixed one area with the Bannister hire, and then gave himself a year to evaluate the rest of the operation. I don't see him answering questions honestly (which is what everyone's screaming for) about different areas (hitting development, international scouting, etc) as throwing people under the bus, or admitting that he was at fault for those people being there in the first place. He actually gave everybody in the organization an entire year to either expose or exonerate themselves. Marco Paddy's biggest international signing this cycle (Eduardo Herrera) just OPSed .573 in the Dominican League. It's good that the GM is recognizing areas that aren't producing, and is openly talking about moving on. I guess. But most baller GMs know exactly what they need to function the way they need in order to do a good job, and they just move everything they need into the building, and everyone else has to GTFO. There’s no universe in my mind that Getz shouldn’t know how the people around him would fit into his vision if he ever got the chance to run the team. And he knows people out there in the league too. If he’s that unsure of what he is doing, it’s not a positive for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 16 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Keith Law had no criticism of the Fedde trade, James Fox felt it was a prospect short. I do think Getz got taken in by the 3-team malarkey. There were no top 100 prospects traded this deadline, and Vargas was a top 40 just last year, so I'm willing to give him an off-season to see if they work with him. Kopech was horrible until about 2 outings before the trade deadline. We could have gotten more if he was traded on his own, but it's not like we were trading a shut down closer with a great track record. This was just one single Google search. I’m sure I can find even more… https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-mlb-trade-deadline-winners-and-losers/ https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/mlbs-biggest-winners-losers-from-trade-deadline https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/07/30/mlb-trade-deadline-2024-winners-losers/74610915007/ https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2024-mlb-trade-deadline-winners-and-losers-dodgers-make-key-moves-but-baseball-blockbuster-never-develops/live/amp/ Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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