WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 6 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The guy who calls every move a disaster evaluates this trade as ..... a disaster!! I am surprise. Are you surprise? I am not surprise. Vargas is dreadful to watch. Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 54 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Larry Himes may have been the last Sox GM to actually stand up to him. It's probably why he was fired . @Lip Man 1 Did Himes ever disclose why he was fired .He was pretty successful as I recall drafting some big names that turned the Sox into a very strong team. He was fired because JR didn’t like him and probably didn’t consider his personnel advice. The So.x won 94 games with the lowest payroll in baseball in 1990. Then they let him go. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 56 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Larry Himes may have been the last Sox GM to actually stand up to him. It's probably why he was fired . @Lip Man 1 Did Himes ever disclose why he was fired .He was pretty successful as I recall drafting some big names that turned the Sox into a very strong team. Cali: I been told some things over the years. The biggest one was that JR wanted Himes to trade some of the top prospects to get help for the stretch run in 1990. Himes refused. The last straw perhaps centered around JR wanting to get pitcher Mike Scott. When I asked Jeff Torborg about this situation and rumor, this is what he said: ML: At the trade deadline the Sox were only three games behind the A’s yet the only thing the organization did was get reserve outfielder Phil Bradley from the Orioles. Were you disappointed especially since there was a lot of talk about the Sox getting guys like pitcher Mike Scott? JT: “Sure we were disappointed especially since that same day the A’s picked up Harold Baines and Willie McGee. I was sitting in my hotel room when I saw the news come across the TV and I thought ‘how did that happen?’ because we were behind Oakland, we could have put in a claim. At almost the same time I was thinking this I got a call from Jerry Reinsdorf and he asked me “what’s going on?” All I could tell him was that I didn’t know.” “And you mentioned Mike Scott…this is the first time I’ve ever heard anything like that. If that’s true that just goes to show you that I wasn’t involved in everything that may have been going on. (Author’s Note: ESPN’s “Baseball Tonight’s” lead anchor Dave Marash reported when Larry Himes was fired in mid-September, that part of the reason was, that he wasn’t interested in trading any of his minor league talent for more highly regarded players for the stretch drive. This apparently caused a wedge between him and ownership.) ML: Larry Himes was fired by the White Sox on September 15, 1990. Many people didn’t understand the move but apparently things were going on behind the scenes. As I mentioned earlier, the failure to get players for the stretch run may have driven a wedge between him and ownership and Jerry Reinsdorf had some very strong things to say about Himes on Chet Coppock’s radio show. (Author’s Note: Among Reinsdorf’s comments was the following “The fact is, Larry Himes cannot get along with anybody. You can hardly find anybody in the Sox organization that wasn’t happy when Larry Himes left.”) Your thoughts when you heard the news? JT: “It was an odd time to make that kind of change. Larry hired me; we shared the same ideas on a lot of things. I appreciated the confidence that he had in me and I always tried to be loyal to him.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: Yeah everything that has worked out thus far proves he’s a genius. Everything where’s he come up short, he was told to hold off. He’s responsible for the organization as the GM. They are 68 games under .500 The Angels have the 144th worst record in the AL. They are 22. games worse than the best record. The Sox are 23 games worse than the Angels. How’s your boy Nastrini doing? Or the lockdown bullpen you told us Getz has assembled? Nastrini has actually been doing better his last few outings. I'm not sure how he became "my boy". Had I been carpet posting positive assessments of him all year? Getz focused on one area, and that move looks like a winner. Do you know that JR wanted Grifol fired and Getz went to the mat for him? And are you actually trying to say that while Getz was playing 2B for the Royals, he hired Marco Paddy as White Sox head of international scouting? You don't seem to be arguing anything other than you don't like Chris Getz. I am truly sorry that I hurt you by looking for a positive in our bullpen during spring training, and calling them "lockdown" once. I agree with you that the Sox' record is 31-99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 13 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: I guess. But most baller GMs know exactly what they need to function the way they need in order to do a good job, and they just move everything they need into the building, and everyone else has to GTFO. There’s no universe in my mind that Getz shouldn’t know how the people around him would fit into his vision if he ever got the chance to run the team. And he knows people out there in the league too. If he’s that unsure of what he is doing, it’s not a positive for me. Well, having managed people in my life, and having taken over other managers' messes, I understand giving the people who report to me some guidance, and seeing if they can be untracked. It seems to me he started his vision with the pitching situation, hired his guy, implemented his system, and brought in a bunch of cheap projects to try it out on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 19 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: This was just one single Google search. I’m sure I can find even more… https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-mlb-trade-deadline-winners-and-losers/ https://amp.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/mlbs-biggest-winners-losers-from-trade-deadline https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2024/07/30/mlb-trade-deadline-2024-winners-losers/74610915007/ https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/2024-mlb-trade-deadline-winners-and-losers-dodgers-make-key-moves-but-baseball-blockbuster-never-develops/live/amp/ Don't bother. I'm not trying to "prove" that Getz hosed all of baseball in the Fedde trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 3 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Nastrini has actually been doing better his last few outings. I'm not sure how he became "my boy". Had I been carpet posting positive assessments of him all year? Getz focused on one area, and that move looks like a winner. Do you know that JR wanted Grifol fired and Getz went to the mat for him? And are you actually trying to say that while Getz was playing 2B for the Royals, he hired Marco Paddy as White Sox head of international scouting? You don't seem to be arguing anything other than you don't like Chris Getz. I am truly sorry that I hurt you by looking for a positive in our bullpen during spring training, and calling them "lockdown" once. I agree with you that the Sox' record is 31-99. He sucks at his job. What you are saying is JR , who never speaks on the record, held a press conference and said he hired Getz because he knew the organization, knew where the bodies were buried, and wouldn’t waste a year figuring out what needs.fixing. Now you are saying JR told him to hold off a year on several moves. That’s as ridiculous as your quote about no one panning Getz deadline. He was panned plenty. If you are reading Keith Law, you have access to Jim Bowden. Read his analysiis. im sure Chris is a nice person, but he’s a terrible GM. He’s employed by the only ream in the league that would give him that position. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Are you surprise? I am not surprise. Vargas is dreadful to watch. Then don't watch him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Then don't watch him. I try not to. 👍🏻 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: He sucks at his job. What you are saying is JR , who never speaks on the record, held a press conference and said he hired Getz because he knew the organization, knew where the bodies were buried, and wouldn’t waste a year figuring out what needs.fixing. Now you are saying JR told him to hold off a year on several moves. That’s as ridiculous as your quote about no one panning Getz deadline. He was panned plenty. If you are reading Keith Law, you have access to Jim Bowden. Read his analysiis. im sure Chris is a nice person, but he’s a terrible GM. He’s employed by the only ream in the league that would give him that position. Bowden is roundly dismissed as an idiot. You can tell me as many times as you need to that your opinion is that Getz sucks. You can also punctuate it with the lockdown thing I said once in spring training. I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon because I'm angry about a press conference a year ago. I don't know what JR told Getz to do. Neither do you. Whereas a bunch of people here make up their own reality about Getz's thinking, I get to believe there's a reasonable explanation for the weird decisions around this club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: He sucks at his job. What you are saying is JR , who never speaks on the record, held a press conference and said he hired Getz because he knew the organization, knew where the bodies were buried, and wouldn’t waste a year figuring out what needs.fixing. Now you are saying JR told him to hold off a year on several moves. That’s as ridiculous as your quote about no one panning Getz deadline. He was panned plenty. If you are reading Keith Law, you have access to Jim Bowden. Read his analysiis. im sure Chris is a nice person, but he’s a terrible GM. He’s employed by the only ream in the league that would give him that position. That was definitely the sales job we were given. I don’t fully understand why Jerry put that out there. It was completely unnecessary at a point where 99% of Sox fans knew in great detail why this team was never gonna have a quick turnaround. If Jerry didn’t know that Getz was this unprepared to execute Jerry’s delusional vision from day 1, he does now. And Jerry still won’t fire Getz, because Jerry is completely dysfunctional. What Jerry is is an owner who never demands accountability. Now every observer should be able to see that Jerry does NOT want to win. Jerry does NOT demand accountability to what Jerry says needs to be done. What Jerry wants is money. Edited August 25 by Chick Mercedes 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 minute ago, WestEddy said: Bowden is roundly dismissed as an idiot. You can tell me as many times as you need to that your opinion is that Getz sucks. You can also punctuate it with the lockdown thing I said once in spring training. I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon because I'm angry about a press conference a year ago. I don't know what JR told Getz to do. Neither do you. Whereas a bunch of people here make up their own reality about Getz's thinking, I get to believe there's a reasonable explanation for the weird decisions around this club. His teams were never 31-99. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 minute ago, Dick Allen said: His teams were never 31-99. W-L records don't matter this year, until they do. While I find it frustrating, I don't take on some deep level of humiliation that you appear to. I hope you get over it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: W-L records don't matter this year, until they do. While I find it frustrating, I don't take on some deep level of humiliation that you appear to. I hope you get over it. What about if they attain the prestigious accomplishment of the worst record in MLB history? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 4 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: That was definitely the sales job we were given. I don’t fully understand why Jerry put that out there. It was completely unnecessary at a point where 99% of Sox fans knew in great detail why this team was never gonna have a quick turnaround. If Jerry didn’t know that Gets was this unprepared to execute Jerry’s delusional vision from day 1, he does now. And still won’t fire Getz, because Jerry is completely dysfunctional as an owner they never demands accountability. Nobody has a problem accepting that JR is old, doesn't want to start all over with a bunch of strangers, so he hired Getz, said some BS he didn't even believe, and then went back to work trying to get Illinois to give him free money. I never even went back to listen to the press conference. I don't care what Reinsdorf said. Getz is saying the organization needs to be overhauled, they need to bring people in from outside to immerse themselves in the current trends, etc. Getz is the GM. He is saying the right things. This is a lost season. I'd rather they didn't break the Mets' record, but it won't change my life one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: What about if they attain the prestigious accomplishment of the worst record in MLB history? Celebrate greatness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Just now, WhiteSox2023 said: What about if they attain the prestigious accomplishment of the worst record in MLB history? Who cares? My Met-fan friends are often happy when I'm with them, and we have a good time. They don't spend our time together being inconsolable about 1962. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 17 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Who cares? My Met-fan friends are often happy when I'm with them, and we have a good time. They don't spend our time together being inconsolable about 1962. Something that happened 62 years ago in 1962 is not a recent feeling like 2024 would be. Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 49 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Are you surprise? I am not surprise. Vargas is dreadful to watch. Everything is a disaster in this organization outside of Crochet, Schultz and Smith. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Something that happened 62 years ago in 1962 is not a recent feeling like 2024 would be. Then I hope you talk to a professional about this so it doesn't ruin the next 10 years of your life. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 25 Author Share Posted August 25 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Then I hope you talk to a professional about this so it doesn't ruin the next 10 years of your life. I’m actually rooting for Jerry and Getz to own the record. It couldn’t happen to a worse owner and a more unqualified GM. It would be very fitting for them both to own it. Edited August 25 by WhiteSox2023 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Nobody thought this team was going to be good. Maybe the complete tank was a way to get JR to focus on modernization. At least that's what I'm hoping. That's a long long stretch. Especially when you're not getting a good draft choice. Getz isn't changing JRs mind in anything nor will having the worst record in modern baseball history. JR has this whole thing planned out and it has nothing to do with winning baseball games. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: I agree with you that the Sox' record is 31-99. Yeah but you see if they completely overhauled the roster by getting rid of Vaughn, Robert, Benintendi, Eloy, and Moncada in the offseason, kept Cease, predicted which terrible relievers they let go would have a bounce back year, and had a time machine to know that guys like Jurickson Profar would post the best stats of their careers... They would win about many games as they did last year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 36 minutes ago, WestEddy said: W-L records don't matter this year, until they do. While I find it frustrating, I don't take on some deep level of humiliation that you appear to. I hope you get over it. I’m fine. I’m not living in fantasyland thinking everyone in the Sox front office should be replaced except for Getz. You’re the one we should be concerned about. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 I think Getz has done a crap job overall so far, but I fail to see the humor in realizing that they should go outside the org for hiring. Of all if the things to criticize him for, this shouldn’t be one of them. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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