fathom Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 It’s insane that they’re going to break the record for the worst team ever, and our asshole of an owner has barely said a word to the fan base. What a piece of s%*# he is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 4 minutes ago, fathom said: It’s insane that they’re going to break the record for the worst team ever, and our asshole of an owner has barely said a word to the fan base. What a piece of s%*# he is. The GM barely shows his face. The owner rarely does. They both know what’s up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: The GM barely shows his face. The owner rarely does. They both know what’s up. Just move the team if this is how it’s going to be. There’s nothing positive about this organization. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydanks Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) Watching the Cubs still try to get themselves back into the wild card race even if it's a longshot is the team we were told that Getz would put out there. If this team was filled with pimps and salma hayek they still wouldn't hustle. Edited August 27 by bobbydanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 19 minutes ago, bobbydanks said: Watching the Cubs still try to get themselves back into the wild card race even if it's a longshot is the team we were told that Getz would put out there. If this team was filled with pimps and salma hayek they still wouldn't hustle. Salma Hayek is, or at least can be, very entrepreneurial and a business hustler when she sees the right opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 4 hours ago, fathom said: It’s insane that they’re going to break the record for the worst team ever, and our asshole of an owner has barely said a word to the fan base. What a piece of s%*# he is. Do they cancel Soxfest before or after the last game of the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 6 hours ago, fathom said: It’s insane that they’re going to break the record for the worst team ever, and our asshole of an owner has barely said a word to the fan base. What a piece of s%*# he is. Last year, after a 101-loss season, JR didn't talk about what could be done about improving the team. His only concern was getting the taxpayers to build a new stadium. He doesn't care about leaving a legacy of winning. He wants that new stadium to be his legacy. So, he won't say anything, even in the face of this failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 8 hours ago, fathom said: Just move the team if this is how it’s going to be. There’s nothing positive about this organization. The pitching infrastructure and development is really good and they’re building a new Dominican Academy. That’s about all I got right now though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 8 hours ago, fathom said: It’s insane that they’re going to break the record for the worst team ever, and our asshole of an owner has barely said a word to the fan base. What a piece of s%*# he is. The only good news is he may never see a winning Sox team again in his life and he has certainly hurt the value of the franchise some which means less proceeds for his heirs. Sucks to be so petty, but hope is at an all-time low for Sox fans right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 9 hours ago, Rusty said: Do they cancel Soxfest before or after the last game of the season? No way. Gotta milk the 20 year anniversary of the 05 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 I heard Barfield say that the White Sox would be looking to address their offense in the off-season.... OK, makes sense. The offense has at least 6 for sure outs almost every day and their better hitters would be amongst the worst on most average hitting teams. It's a historically bad offense capable of being shut out everyday and scoring 3 runs in a game is considered an outburst. Questions.... How is this going to happen? By all accounts, they don't appear interested in spending this off-season. Are there any realistic off-season free agent signings that aren't light hitting IF types? Is there any chance they would sign a veteran, even overpay, to improve the offense? Who are realistic candidates? They may trade Luis Robert this off-season. He has had a bad season. His trade value is probably down significantly and he is now seen as a talented player who is also injury prone and an underachieving OF with a questionable contract....If they trade him, it will probably be motivated by saving $$$ than it is returning talent. Their best bet is to hold Robert and move him next trading deadline if he stays healthy and returns to an elite level. That's probably the best way to improve the offense is to get him right, but will they do that with a motivation to move $$$? They will likely trade Crochet and that's probably the best guess as to how they plan to improve their offense, but teams are reluctant to trade top young talent these days. Even if the Sox got what is considered to be a good return, we're still talking about young players who may/may not be ready for the majors and/or who are still unproven talent. If he traded, I would guess that 1 player in return would be ready for next season and maybe they get a 2nd player who isn't far away. Can they count on Montgomery for next season given his struggles for this season? When will Quero be on the major league roster? Is he likely to start the season in the majors or will he be up in May+? If he a full-time catcher or will they let him DH/1B at times and pair him with Lee? Is there anyone else from the minor league system that is a legitimate prospect and not an average one who may/may not pan out? I consider guys like Baldwin, Ramos (and Bush, Nastrini, probably Cannon from the pitching side).... Pitching is the strength of their minor leagues. Do they plan on trading from strength to address their hitting? Why not keep Crochet and go with him, Thorpe, Shultz, Hagen Smith (both later in the season), Cannon and some veteran on a year deal (similar to what they did this past off-season)? Most expect next season to be similar to this season. Over 100 losses, maybe not an all-time bad season....but I think we have become conditioned to expect the White Sox to operate like they are a smaller market type team. Why not actually consider keeping a young rotation intact (meaning keep Crochet) and actually look to bring in a few free agents to improve the offense? They can still keep building their farm system through the draft, but they are busy selling us on a 5 year plan that will eventually lead them to trading any young pitchers who work out from this rebuild, meaning they wont' have more than than 2 year window before we're back to this again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 6 minutes ago, spiderman said: I heard Barfield say that the White Sox would be looking to address their offense in the off-season.... OK, makes sense. The offense has at least 6 for sure outs almost every day and their better hitters would be amongst the worst on most average hitting teams. It's a historically bad offense capable of being shut out everyday and scoring 3 runs in a game is considered an outburst. Questions.... How is this going to happen? By all accounts, they don't appear interested in spending this off-season. Are there any realistic off-season free agent signings that aren't light hitting IF types? Is there any chance they would sign a veteran, even overpay, to improve the offense? Who are realistic candidates? They may trade Luis Robert this off-season. He has had a bad season. His trade value is probably down significantly and he is now seen as a talented player who is also injury prone and an underachieving OF with a questionable contract....If they trade him, it will probably be motivated by saving $$$ than it is returning talent. Their best bet is to hold Robert and move him next trading deadline if he stays healthy and returns to an elite level. That's probably the best way to improve the offense is to get him right, but will they do that with a motivation to move $$$? They will likely trade Crochet and that's probably the best guess as to how they plan to improve their offense, but teams are reluctant to trade top young talent these days. Even if the Sox got what is considered to be a good return, we're still talking about young players who may/may not be ready for the majors and/or who are still unproven talent. If he traded, I would guess that 1 player in return would be ready for next season and maybe they get a 2nd player who isn't far away. Can they count on Montgomery for next season given his struggles for this season? When will Quero be on the major league roster? Is he likely to start the season in the majors or will he be up in May+? If he a full-time catcher or will they let him DH/1B at times and pair him with Lee? Is there anyone else from the minor league system that is a legitimate prospect and not an average one who may/may not pan out? I consider guys like Baldwin, Ramos (and Bush, Nastrini, probably Cannon from the pitching side).... Pitching is the strength of their minor leagues. Do they plan on trading from strength to address their hitting? Why not keep Crochet and go with him, Thorpe, Shultz, Hagen Smith (both later in the season), Cannon and some veteran on a year deal (similar to what they did this past off-season)? Most expect next season to be similar to this season. Over 100 losses, maybe not an all-time bad season....but I think we have become conditioned to expect the White Sox to operate like they are a smaller market type team. Why not actually consider keeping a young rotation intact (meaning keep Crochet) and actually look to bring in a few free agents to improve the offense? They can still keep building their farm system through the draft, but they are busy selling us on a 5 year plan that will eventually lead them to trading any young pitchers who work out from this rebuild, meaning they wont' have more than than 2 year window before we're back to this again.... The Sox can say what they want, but they could go out and spend a billion dollars in free agency and still not be able to put together a league average offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 Their attempts to address the offense thus far gives every indication they don’t have the ability to recognize that particular skill. Since Getz was hired initially, who have the White Sox developed that has come to the major leagues and met or surpassed what was originally projected? Maybe Burger, and they flipped him for garbage. Not Vaughn. Not Eloy. Not Moncada. Not even Robert. And just about everyone else has been below replacement level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 18 minutes ago, spiderman said: I heard Barfield say that the White Sox would be looking to address their offense in the off-season.... OK, makes sense. The offense has at least 6 for sure outs almost every day and their better hitters would be amongst the worst on most average hitting teams. It's a historically bad offense capable of being shut out everyday and scoring 3 runs in a game is considered an outburst. Questions.... How is this going to happen? By all accounts, they don't appear interested in spending this off-season. Are there any realistic off-season free agent signings that aren't light hitting IF types? Is there any chance they would sign a veteran, even overpay, to improve the offense? Who are realistic candidates? They may trade Luis Robert this off-season. He has had a bad season. His trade value is probably down significantly and he is now seen as a talented player who is also injury prone and an underachieving OF with a questionable contract....If they trade him, it will probably be motivated by saving $$$ than it is returning talent. Their best bet is to hold Robert and move him next trading deadline if he stays healthy and returns to an elite level. That's probably the best way to improve the offense is to get him right, but will they do that with a motivation to move $$$? They will likely trade Crochet and that's probably the best guess as to how they plan to improve their offense, but teams are reluctant to trade top young talent these days. Even if the Sox got what is considered to be a good return, we're still talking about young players who may/may not be ready for the majors and/or who are still unproven talent. If he traded, I would guess that 1 player in return would be ready for next season and maybe they get a 2nd player who isn't far away. Can they count on Montgomery for next season given his struggles for this season? When will Quero be on the major league roster? Is he likely to start the season in the majors or will he be up in May+? If he a full-time catcher or will they let him DH/1B at times and pair him with Lee? Is there anyone else from the minor league system that is a legitimate prospect and not an average one who may/may not pan out? I consider guys like Baldwin, Ramos (and Bush, Nastrini, probably Cannon from the pitching side).... Pitching is the strength of their minor leagues. Do they plan on trading from strength to address their hitting? Why not keep Crochet and go with him, Thorpe, Shultz, Hagen Smith (both later in the season), Cannon and some veteran on a year deal (similar to what they did this past off-season)? Most expect next season to be similar to this season. Over 100 losses, maybe not an all-time bad season....but I think we have become conditioned to expect the White Sox to operate like they are a smaller market type team. Why not actually consider keeping a young rotation intact (meaning keep Crochet) and actually look to bring in a few free agents to improve the offense? They can still keep building their farm system through the draft, but they are busy selling us on a 5 year plan that will eventually lead them to trading any young pitchers who work out from this rebuild, meaning they wont' have more than than 2 year window before we're back to this again.... Barfield couldn't even recognize the better talent in a system he oversaw. He should be the first to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, spiderman said: Why not actually consider keeping a young rotation intact (meaning keep Crochet) and actually look to bring in a few free agents to improve the offense? Quite Simply, for an organization this bereft of talent, "Players returned in a trade for Gerrit Crochet + having $25 million to spend" is a better situation than having a good Gerrit Crochet and spending $25 million on him. The same calculus was correctly made for Cease and he brought back a couple of the players you think are part of the potential future rotation, it's no different with Crochet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 48 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Their attempts to address the offense thus far gives every indication they don’t have the ability to recognize that particular skill. Since Getz was hired initially, who have the White Sox developed that has come to the major leagues and met or surpassed what was originally projected? Maybe Burger, and they flipped him for garbage. Not Vaughn. Not Eloy. Not Moncada. Not even Robert. And just about everyone else has been below replacement level. Yeah, if their plan is to sign guys like DeJong, trade for borderline MLB backups like Lopez, Fletcher, etc., there's no reason to see this improving. If they trade their best offensive weapon in Robert, and then lean on guys like Montgomery/Quero, just seems like we are asking too much of them early on. Barfield says they need to address (improve) the offense. Just not sure I'm understanding how they plan on doing this without impacting their pitching and not spending money. It's hard to be a White Sox fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 minute ago, Balta1701 said: Quite Simply, for an organization this bereft of talent, "Players returned in a trade for Gerrit Crochet + having $25 million to spend" is a better situation than having a good Gerrit Crochet and spending $25 million on him. The same calculus was correctly made for Cease and he brought back a couple of the players you think are part of the potential future rotation, it's no different with Crochet. And for an non-incestuous organization, it also means you could still bid on him as a FA, just like you could have if you kept him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, spiderman said: By all accounts, they don't appear interested in spending this off-season. Are there any realistic off-season free agent signings that aren't light hitting IF types? Is there any chance they would sign a veteran, even overpay, to improve the offense? Who are realistic candidates? They may trade Luis Robert this off-season. He has had a bad season. His trade value is probably down significantly and he is now seen as a talented player who is also injury prone and an underachieving OF with a questionable contract....If they trade him, it will probably be motivated by saving $$$ than it is returning talent. Their best bet is to hold Robert and move him next trading deadline if he stays healthy and returns to an elite level. That's probably the best way to improve the offense is to get him right, but will they do that with a motivation to move $$$? They will likely trade Crochet and that's probably the best guess as to how they plan to improve their offense, but teams are reluctant to trade top young talent these days. Even if the Sox got what is considered to be a good return, we're still talking about young players who may/may not be ready for the majors and/or who are still unproven talent. If he traded, I would guess that 1 player in return would be ready for next season and maybe they get a 2nd player who isn't far away. Can they count on Montgomery for next season given his struggles for this season? When will Quero be on the major league roster? Is he likely to start the season in the majors or will he be up in May+? If he a full-time catcher or will they let him DH/1B at times and pair him with Lee? Is there anyone else from the minor league system that is a legitimate prospect and not an average one who may/may not pan out? I consider guys like Baldwin, Ramos (and Bush, Nastrini, probably Cannon from the pitching side).... Pitching is the strength of their minor leagues. Do they plan on trading from strength to address their hitting? 1. There are always realistic off-season signings who contribute to teams. Jurickson Profar is being paid $1 million this season and has been amazing. These signing will not reshape a roster, but it is also unusual for the White Sox to be as bad with their signings as they have been. What I have been watching for 1 calendar year now - Domestic Violence Enthusiast Chris Getz will talk about the importance of defense, or of leadership, but I have yet to hear him once talk about the importance of working a count, drawing walks, or getting on base. They should not be so consistently bad at their offense, and I think the reason is that they look for this super aggressive, swing at everything and hit it on the ground player format, you know, like David Eckstein, and this is the offense you get when you try to find 12 of those. 2. No, they cannot currently count on Montgomery and should not do so. He should clearly be back in the minors and he has to earn a callup. Whether it's injury or something else, don't leave spot open for him, he isn't a big leaguer right now. 3. I think Quero probably breaks camp with the big league team. He should catch full time. Maybe he gets sent down for a little time for service time manipulation, but yeah Quero has earned a chance at the big leagues. Go ahead and pencil him in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 hour ago, spiderman said: I heard Barfield say that the White Sox would be looking to address their offense in the off-season.... OK, makes sense. The offense has at least 6 for sure outs almost every day and their better hitters would be amongst the worst on most average hitting teams. It's a historically bad offense capable of being shut out everyday and scoring 3 runs in a game is considered an outburst. Questions.... How is this going to happen? By all accounts, they don't appear interested in spending this off-season. Are there any realistic off-season free agent signings that aren't light hitting IF types? Is there any chance they would sign a veteran, even overpay, to improve the offense? Who are realistic candidates? They may trade Luis Robert this off-season. He has had a bad season. His trade value is probably down significantly and he is now seen as a talented player who is also injury prone and an underachieving OF with a questionable contract....If they trade him, it will probably be motivated by saving $$$ than it is returning talent. Their best bet is to hold Robert and move him next trading deadline if he stays healthy and returns to an elite level. That's probably the best way to improve the offense is to get him right, but will they do that with a motivation to move $$$? They will likely trade Crochet and that's probably the best guess as to how they plan to improve their offense, but teams are reluctant to trade top young talent these days. Even if the Sox got what is considered to be a good return, we're still talking about young players who may/may not be ready for the majors and/or who are still unproven talent. If he traded, I would guess that 1 player in return would be ready for next season and maybe they get a 2nd player who isn't far away. Can they count on Montgomery for next season given his struggles for this season? When will Quero be on the major league roster? Is he likely to start the season in the majors or will he be up in May+? If he a full-time catcher or will they let him DH/1B at times and pair him with Lee? Is there anyone else from the minor league system that is a legitimate prospect and not an average one who may/may not pan out? I consider guys like Baldwin, Ramos (and Bush, Nastrini, probably Cannon from the pitching side).... Pitching is the strength of their minor leagues. Do they plan on trading from strength to address their hitting? Why not keep Crochet and go with him, Thorpe, Shultz, Hagen Smith (both later in the season), Cannon and some veteran on a year deal (similar to what they did this past off-season)? Most expect next season to be similar to this season. Over 100 losses, maybe not an all-time bad season....but I think we have become conditioned to expect the White Sox to operate like they are a smaller market type team. Why not actually consider keeping a young rotation intact (meaning keep Crochet) and actually look to bring in a few free agents to improve the offense? They can still keep building their farm system through the draft, but they are busy selling us on a 5 year plan that will eventually lead them to trading any young pitchers who work out from this rebuild, meaning they wont' have more than than 2 year window before we're back to this again.... Because JR has made it clear as recently as last August at his press conference where he said the Sox won't be giving out long term deals to pitchers. Without one if they don't deal Crochet he leaves as a free agent in two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 19 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Because JR has made it clear as recently as last August at his press conference where he said the Sox won't be giving out long term deals to pitchers. Without one if they don't deal Crochet he leaves as a free agent in two years. That's the flaw in this "rebuild". If Noah Schultz, Drew Thorpe or Hagan Smith work out, we'll be talking about trading them in 2-3 years as well. I'm not sure how sustainable building a team around pitching that will be traded if they are good will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 36 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Quite Simply, for an organization this bereft of talent, "Players returned in a trade for Gerrit Crochet + having $25 million to spend" is a better situation than having a good Gerrit Crochet and spending $25 million on him. The same calculus was correctly made for Cease and he brought back a couple of the players you think are part of the potential future rotation, it's no different with Crochet. Any ideas on who they would spend $$ on if they trade Crochet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 minute ago, spiderman said: Any ideas on who they would spend $$ on if they trade Crochet? Crochet isn't really making any money right now, so probably another minimum wage guy. My guess is they aren't doing any real spending until at least .500 is in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 1 minute ago, spiderman said: That's the flaw in this "rebuild". If Noah Schultz, Drew Thorpe or Hagan Smith work out, we'll be talking about trading them in 2-3 years as well. I'm not sure how sustainable building a team around pitching that will be traded if they are good will be. If they cannot develop their own players, then this rebuild will turn out worse than the last one, as they got an impressive set of talent in the trades last time and they had multiple top 5 draft picks. So yes, they will have to go through a few cycles of this process, developing guys and trading them away hunting for even better returns, to find enough talent to be competitive, which is why this could easily be a 5+ year process. And if they continue to be unable to develop position player talent and unwilling to spend on top flight performers, this process could easily continue forever - there have been more than a few franchises that have been stuck in the waste bin for a decade+ - the Rockies, Pirates, Marlins, and Royals come to mind, and yeah the White Sox are pretty regularly getting compared to those teams. A team that can develop pitching but can't develop hitters to save their jobs is the Mariners, and they had about a 20 year playoff drought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 27 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: 1. There are always realistic off-season signings who contribute to teams. Jurickson Profar is being paid $1 million this season and has been amazing. These signing will not reshape a roster, but it is also unusual for the White Sox to be as bad with their signings as they have been. What I have been watching for 1 calendar year now - Domestic Violence Enthusiast Chris Getz will talk about the importance of defense, or of leadership, but I have yet to hear him once talk about the importance of working a count, drawing walks, or getting on base. They should not be so consistently bad at their offense, and I think the reason is that they look for this super aggressive, swing at everything and hit it on the ground player format, you know, like David Eckstein, and this is the offense you get when you try to find 12 of those. 2. No, they cannot currently count on Montgomery and should not do so. He should clearly be back in the minors and he has to earn a callup. Whether it's injury or something else, don't leave spot open for him, he isn't a big leaguer right now. 3. I think Quero probably breaks camp with the big league team. He should catch full time. Maybe he gets sent down for a little time for service time manipulation, but yeah Quero has earned a chance at the big leagues. Go ahead and pencil him in. If their offense could score 3-4 runs (still not enough) vs. 0-3 most days next season, that is their best path towards being around 100 losses vs. 120 assuming their young pitching is able to keep them in most games. I do agree that I would guess another 2-3 1 year type deals for an OF, maybe a 3B type and another 1-2 starting pitchers to compete next season. That's probably it, but they should be spending. I'm not holding my breath on that happening though and, even when they do, it will be with handcuffs. I would not start the season with any of their young players and would manipulate service time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 3 Share Posted September 3 6 minutes ago, spiderman said: Any ideas on who they would spend $$ on if they trade Crochet? In two years, when he would have been a free agent and making good money? Naw, not worth guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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