Getz’s Hilarious Hypocrisy

[spiderman]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

If they cannot develop their own players, then this rebuild will turn out worse than the last one, as they got an impressive set of talent in the trades last time and they had multiple top 5 draft picks. 

So yes, they will have to go through a few cycles of this process, developing guys and trading them away hunting for even better returns, to find enough talent to be competitive, which is why this could easily be a 5+ year process.

And if they continue to be unable to develop position player talent and unwilling to spend on top flight performers, this process could easily continue forever - there have been more than a few franchises that have been stuck in the waste bin for a decade+ - the Rockies, Pirates, Marlins, and Royals come to mind, and yeah the White Sox are pretty regularly getting compared to those teams. A team that can develop pitching but can't develop hitters to save their jobs is the Mariners, and they had about a 20 year playoff drought.

Yep, can't disagree. If they are going to sell us on being a small market team, they need to develop talent everywhere, not just left handed pitchers. Else they will be a continuous uncompetitive team.

White Sox should be doing both though - spending and developing,

[Tony]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Crochet isn't really making any money right now, so probably another minimum wage guy.  My guess is they aren't doing any real spending until at least .500 is in sight.

Which is basically chicken or the egg, because with their historically bad farm system development, without spending, will they ever sniff .500?

It's why I don't agree with Balta on the "Crochet Formula." 

He's 25 years old. Noah Schultz and Hagen Smith are probably both on this team in 2026. As I have said before, if Crochet was at all open to signing a 5 year extension, I'd front load the hell out of hit, pay the bulk of it while this team has a very small payroll, and still have Crochet during his 28-30 year old seasons at a below market rate. 

I understand that this organization doesn't have any offensive hitting depth, and one of the easiest ways to obtain that is by trading Crochet and obtaining 2-3 pieces that can help fill the diamond, but it still is, imo, a very poor use of Garret Crochet as a player. He is what every team dreams of having their 1st round pick develop into. Trading him at 25 is not how you turn into a better franchise. 

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Which is basically chicken or the egg, because with their historically bad farm system development, without spending, will they ever sniff .500?

It's why I don't agree with Balta on the "Crochet Formula." 

He's 25 years old. Noah Schultz and Hagen Smith are probably both on this team in 2026. As I have said before, if Crochet was at all open to signing a 5 year extension, I'd front load the hell out of hit, pay the bulk of it while this team has a very small payroll, and still have Crochet during his 28-30 year old seasons at a below market rate. 

I understand that this organization doesn't have any offensive hitting depth, and one of the easiest ways to obtain that is by trading Crochet and obtaining 2-3 pieces that can help fill the diamond, but it still is, imo, a very poor use of Garret Crochet as a player. He is what every team dreams of having their 1st round pick develop into. Trading him at 25 is not how you turn into a better franchise. 

The problem is Jerry is Jerry, and he won't approve a long term contract to a pitcher, let alone an injury prone one.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

Which is basically chicken or the egg, because with their historically bad farm system development, without spending, will they ever sniff .500?

It's why I don't agree with Balta on the "Crochet Formula." 

He's 25 years old. Noah Schultz and Hagen Smith are probably both on this team in 2026. As I have said before, if Crochet was at all open to signing a 5 year extension, I'd front load the hell out of hit, pay the bulk of it while this team has a very small payroll, and still have Crochet during his 28-30 year old seasons at a below market rate. 

I understand that this organization doesn't have any offensive hitting depth, and one of the easiest ways to obtain that is by trading Crochet and obtaining 2-3 pieces that can help fill the diamond, but it still is, imo, a very poor use of Garret Crochet as a player. He is what every team dreams of having their 1st round pick develop into. Trading him at 25 is not how you turn into a better franchise. 

I think that holding him on a roster this barren and with clear salary limits in the next few years gets you a strong chance at a "Felix Hernandez", a guy who was the best pitcher in the league for a decade, hall of famer, and Garret Crochet has more postseason pitching experience than him. 

But hell, if their returns are as weak as the ones Domestic Violence Enthusiast Chris Getz has been getting for his other trades, it's probably not worth arguing about.

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, spiderman said:

That's the flaw in this "rebuild". If Noah Schultz, Drew Thorpe or Hagan Smith work out, we'll be talking about trading them in 2-3 years as well. I'm not sure how sustainable building a team around pitching that will be traded if they are good will be.

The problem is pitchers get hurt, and when they do, it usually is for a year or more. So you have to figure some of their better guys are going to go down at some point,.Hopefully, the timing is when the team sucks and is going to suck anyway, and not when their presence can make a difference in contenting or not. 

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The problem is pitchers get hurt, and when they do, it usually is for a year or more. So you have to figure some of their better guys are going to go down at some point,.Hopefully, the timing is when the team sucks and is going to suck anyway, and not when their presence can make a difference in contenting or not. 

It's honestly crazy how much better the Sox are keeping pitchers healthy, than they are keeping hitters healthy.

[baseball_gal_aly]

31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If they cannot develop their own players, then this rebuild will turn out worse than the last one, as they got an impressive set of talent in the trades last time and they had multiple top 5 draft picks. 

So yes, they will have to go through a few cycles of this process, developing guys and trading them away hunting for even better returns, to find enough talent to be competitive, which is why this could easily be a 5+ year process.

And if they continue to be unable to develop position player talent and unwilling to spend on top flight performers, this process could easily continue forever - there have been more than a few franchises that have been stuck in the waste bin for a decade+ - the Rockies, Pirates, Marlins, and Royals come to mind, and yeah the White Sox are pretty regularly getting compared to those teams. A team that can develop pitching but can't develop hitters to save their jobs is the Mariners, and they had about a 20 year playoff drought.

Yeah this is where we're at. It's pretty bleak to the point where idgaf if they move anymore. 

We're looking at at least 7-10 years to get out of this, unless there is new ownership and they actually start acting like a big market club. 

That being said, it could easily take 20 years to recover from this. 

Edited September 3 by baseball_gal_aly

[Dick Allen]

1 hour ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Yeah this is where we're at. It's pretty bleak to the point where idgaf if they move anymore. 

We're looking at at least 7-10 years to get out of this, unless there is new ownership and they actually start acting like a big market club. 

That being said, it could easily take 20 years to recover from this. 

I think they are going to have to be crazy lucky to ever be in contention with Getz and his crew. JR needs to admit his mistake and try again. It won't happen for many more years. 

[baseball_gal_aly]

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I think they are going to have to be crazy lucky to ever be in contention with Getz and his crew. JR needs to admit his mistake and try again. It won't happen for many more years. 

Yeah I got so depressed that I can't even follow the minors because those guys will just be trade bait. 

I feel like I could follow if there was a small group of promising young players but there isn't anything outside of Schultz and Hagens and nothing on the position player side. 

Every team has a Thorpe and Iriarte. 

Edited September 3 by baseball_gal_aly

[wrathofhahn]

Hiring from outside the company is meaningless if the candidates are not qualified and have a common understanding of the direction the organization should take.

Above all, I am interested in seeing good outcomes. Whether it comes from someone buried inside the organization or it comes from outside, I quite frankly don't care. Rather than worry whether someone or not works for this dumpster fire of an organization, we ought to be evaluating people based on the quality of their actual work.

For me, it's more important we have an open process, something we didn't have when Getz was hired. I do not mind if it leads to an internal or external hire as long as the person making the choice thinks they selected the best candidate. To me, saying I am hiring outside the organization without going through the process is nothing to elevate. 

To me, that indicates he is more worried about optics than actually doing a good job.

Edited September 3 by wrathofhahn

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Hiring from outside the company is meaningless if the candidates are not qualified and have a common understanding of the direction the organization should take.

Above all, I am interested in seeing good outcomes. Whether it comes from someone buried inside the organization or it comes from outside, I quite frankly don't care. Rather than worry whether someone or not works for this dumpster fire of an organization, we ought to be evaluating people based on the quality of their actual work.

For me, it's more important we have an open process, something we didn't have when Getz was hired. I do not mind if it leads to an internal or external hire as long as the person making the choice thinks they selected the best candidate. To me, saying I am hiring outside the organization without going through the process is nothing to elevate. 

To me, that indicates he is more worried about optics than actually doing a good job.

It makes more sense than hiring Getz. Considering his previous titles, Getz either bears some responsibility for the previous failure, or was a coffee boy. Either way, it should have made him unqualified, and he is proving that in real time.

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Hiring from outside the company is meaningless if the candidates are not qualified and have a common understanding of the direction the organization should take.

Above all, I am interested in seeing good outcomes. Whether it comes from someone buried inside the organization or it comes from outside, I quite frankly don't care. Rather than worry whether someone or not works for this dumpster fire of an organization, we ought to be evaluating people based on the quality of their actual work.

For me, it's more important we have an open process, something we didn't have when Getz was hired. I do not mind if it leads to an internal or external hire as long as the person making the choice thinks they selected the best candidate. To me, saying I am hiring outside the organization without going through the process is nothing to elevate. 

To me, that indicates he is more worried about optics than actually doing a good job.

Hiring from within a company is meaningless if the candidates are not qualified and had failed at their previous jobs which feed into their promotional job.

[spiderman]

13 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It makes more sense than hiring Getz. Considering his previous titles, Getz either bears some responsibility for the previous failure, or was a coffee boy. Either way, it should have made him unqualified, and he is proving that in real time.

Given the lack of player development, it's still ridiculous that Getz got this job.

It's just another example of how bad this organization is.

I don't think it's a reach to suggest a team that is about to lose 120 games should clean house, including the GM, but in this organization, it's Getz's job until Reinsdorf sells the team.

[kitekrazy]

48 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It makes more sense than hiring Getz. Considering his previous titles, Getz either bears some responsibility for the previous failure, or was a coffee boy. Either way, it should have made him unqualified, and he is proving that in real time.

I bet it doesn't work that way.  We already have to habit of pushing the blame above. Getz will say it's Hahn/KW. As for position players that can't keep duplicating those mistakes 1st round.

[kitekrazy]

1 hour ago, wrathofhahn said:

Hiring from outside the company is meaningless if the candidates are not qualified and have a common understanding of the direction the organization should take.

Above all, I am interested in seeing good outcomes. Whether it comes from someone buried inside the organization or it comes from outside, I quite frankly don't care. Rather than worry whether someone or not works for this dumpster fire of an organization, we ought to be evaluating people based on the quality of their actual work.

For me, it's more important we have an open process, something we didn't have when Getz was hired. I do not mind if it leads to an internal or external hire as long as the person making the choice thinks they selected the best candidate. To me, saying I am hiring outside the organization without going through the process is nothing to elevate. 

To me, that indicates he is more worried about optics than actually doing a good job.

I think JR doesn't like to interview outside because it would be another ignored reality how weak the organization is.

[bmags]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I think that holding him on a roster this barren and with clear salary limits in the next few years gets you a strong chance at a "Felix Hernandez", a guy who was the best pitcher in the league for a decade, hall of famer, and Garret Crochet has more postseason pitching experience than him. 

But hell, if their returns are as weak as the ones Domestic Violence Enthusiast Chris Getz has been getting for his other trades, it's probably not worth arguing about.

i don't know. 2007-2013 mariners seem like a dream compared to what i'm expecting.

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

i don't know. 2007-2013 mariners seem like a dream compared to what i'm expecting.

In 2007 they finished 2nd, but they finished in last place 9 times in 12 years from 2004-2015, averaged 73 wins a year, and averaged finishing 21 games out of first in their division. 8 managers in 12 years, 0 playoff appearances.

I guess losing 120+ is truly something special and we should be impressed at Domestic Violence Enthusiast Chris Getz for his novelty in this campaign, but last place 9 times in 12 years - even Rick Hahn couldn't pull that off. 

[caulfield12]

At least with KW there was offensive fireworks big numbers put up on the board from 2000~2012 for the most part.

Slugfests and second to Minnesota.

 

Now it's 90% build around starting pitching...and hope enough pan out before getting either too expensive or injured.

Defense and speed?  Well not really.  Maybe Fletcher is a fourth or fifth outfielder.  Maybe.

Fundamentals/execution?

Cohesion with wave after wave of winning minor league teams advancing?

Bullpen  even a remote resemblance to a major league quality one?

So we have the worst of all worlds, no comeback-ability but the almost innate fear or presumption of blowing every single lead late.

Edited September 4 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

1st 2nd 3rd eight times from 2004-20015.

Chop off Ventura's 2013-2015 sleep walk and things look much better.

2000-2004 was by and large fine too except for the 2001 letdown aka massive disappointment.

Then 2016 following the Semien trade was the real false hope disaster of a gut punch.  Following Adam Dunn's 2011.

If only we had never heard of Samardzija or Swisher around here.

[wrathofhahn]

21 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Hiring from within a company is meaningless if the candidates are not qualified and had failed at their previous jobs which feed into their promotional job.

That came happen when hiring from outside the organization as well. That is why I stated that hiring the best candidate through an open process is what matters to me the most.

For that, you can see how we hired TLR. I still think he is a fantastic manager, but it is clear that his physical limitations should have prevented him from managing. He was hired through a closed process but outside the organization. Furthermore, our organization is a dumpster fire we need to balance the two of keeping guys who are talented working here and also bringing in more qualified people.

Have you ever worked for a sinking ship? I have one of the first things you question is why should you remain there? If there is no chance of advancement and they are only considering outside candidates, why would someone who is performing well in a poor performing group want to stay on staff?

 

Edited September 4 by wrathofhahn

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

That came happen when hiring from outside the organization as well. That is why I stated that hiring the best candidate through an open process is what matters to me the most.

For that, you can see how we hired TLR. Though I think he is a fantastic manager, it is clear that his physical limitations prevented him from managing as effectively. He was hired through a closed process but outside the organization. Furthermore, our organization is a dumpster fire we need to balance the two of keeping guys who are talented working here and also bringing in more qualified people.

There has to be opportunities for advancement but you also have to promote people who are qualified. Have you ever worked for a sinking ship? I have one of the first things you question is should you remain there? Why would anyone who is doing a good job with the whitesox want to remain an employee if they know they are only looking at outside candidates? 

Tony wasn't hired by a "process" at all.  Jerry told Rick to bring him in, because of his history INSIDE of the White Sox.  I guess you could try to call that an external hire because at the time Tony was drawing a paycheck from someone else, but he also literally is never hired but for his extensive history with Jerry Reinsdorf INSIDE the White Sox.  This is the kind of incest that leads to sinking ships.

[Harry Chappas]

Yermin swinging on 3-0 was White Sox Pearl Harbor. 

[wrathofhahn]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Tony wasn't hired by a "process" at all.  Jerry told Rick to bring him in, because of his history INSIDE of the White Sox.  I guess you could try to call that an external hire because at the time Tony was drawing a paycheck from someone else, but he also literally is never hired but for his extensive history with Jerry Reinsdorf INSIDE the White Sox.  This is the kind of incest that leads to sinking ships.

Yes, that was my point. Going outside the organization does not ensure anything. Chris Getz was employed by the Royals before coming here, and I do not want him to hire a bunch of inexperienced flunkies from the Royals just because it is not within the organization.

What I want is qualified candidates and the best fit for the organization. Let us wait and see what he does, but I would have felt much more at ease if he had simply stated that we would be implementing an open process to hire the best talent available, whether from within or outside the organization.

But like you said that is not how he was hired and he benefited by the current process so expecting him to make these kinds of changes is wishful thinking. 

[Chimpton]

2 hours ago, Harry Chappas said:

Yermin swinging on 3-0 was White Sox Pearl Harbor. 

The only difference being that America turned it round 4 years after Pearl Harbour and went on to win the war, somehow I don't see the White Sox turning it round and winning anything in the next 4 years.

[southsider2k5]

48 minutes ago, wrathofhahn said:

Yes, that was my point. Going outside the organization does not ensure anything. Chris Getz was employed by the Royals before coming here, and I do not want him to hire a bunch of inexperienced flunkies from the Royals just because it is not within the organization.

What I want is qualified candidates and the best fit for the organization. Let us wait and see what he does, but I would have felt much more at ease if he had simply stated that we would be implementing an open process to hire the best talent available, whether from within or outside the organization.

But like you said that is not how he was hired and he benefited by the current process so expecting him to make these kinds of changes is wishful thinking. 

So instead we are supposed to wait for inexperienced failures as flunkies to see what they do?  So much better.