Sox trying to fix Vargas

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Basically the Sox got Vargas and the 2 minor leaguers and the money they saved on Fedde's , Pham's and Kopech's contracts . They got rid of $10M from Fedde's $15M . Kopech's salary was $3M maybe they paid him a little more than $1M and saved $2M this year perhaps and what he might have got in 2025 He'll likely make more with the Dodgers than he would have  with the Sox since he's been great with them.

Sox signed Pham for $3M but his base salary was a litte less than $468K. Not sure how much  Cards took on.

We all know the trade sucked but with the Sox you have to consider what they invested in the players and how much they saved by trading them. With JR that's equally or more important than the players acquired. When you do the owner's bidding you do the best you can under the circumstances and keep your job.  3 players and somewhere around $15M saved.

Barf. I don’t care that they save money on a great, cheap signing. I don’t care that Jerry saves money here.

Edited September 8 by Bob Sacamano

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Barf. I don’t care that they save money on a great, cheap signing.

Exactly.  Getz got some props for the Fedde signing when he panned out and pitched great.  Well, all of those accolades should have been negated when Getz traded a 4 WAR starting pitcher (now at 5.3 WAR) for the biggest piece of junk in the dumpster.  Ultimately, the great Fedde signing meant absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things, which should be improving the Sox.

Edited September 8 by WhiteSox2023

[Tnetennba]

On 9/5/2024 at 2:58 PM, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah, I'd say the pessimistic view is the realist view and any optimism from anyone is just blind faith ha

There's optimism, and then there is complete disconnect from reality...

[Paulie4Pres]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Basically the Sox got Vargas and the 2 minor leaguers and the money they saved on Fedde's , Pham's and Kopech's contracts . They got rid of $10M from Fedde's $15M . Kopech's salary was $3M maybe they paid him a little more than $1M and saved $2M this year perhaps and what he might have got in 2025 He'll likely make more with the Dodgers than he would have  with the Sox since he's been great with them.

Sox signed Pham for $3M but his base salary was a litte less than $468K. Not sure how much  Cards took on.

We all know the trade sucked but with the Sox you have to consider what they invested in the players and how much they saved by trading them. With JR that's equally or more important than the players acquired. When you do the owner's bidding you do the best you can under the circumstances and keep your job.  3 players and somewhere around $15M saved.

I'm sorry, but what fucking fan cares at all about this?

[Rusty]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Basically the Sox got Vargas and the 2 minor leaguers and the money they saved on Fedde's , Pham's and Kopech's contracts . They got rid of $10M from Fedde's $15M . Kopech's salary was $3M maybe they paid him a little more than $1M and saved $2M this year perhaps and what he might have got in 2025 He'll likely make more with the Dodgers than he would have  with the Sox since he's been great with them.

Sox signed Pham for $3M but his base salary was a litte less than $468K. Not sure how much  Cards took on.

We all know the trade sucked but with the Sox you have to consider what they invested in the players and how much they saved by trading them. With JR that's equally or more important than the players acquired. When you do the owner's bidding you do the best you can under the circumstances and keep your job.  3 players and somewhere around $15M saved.

This is insanity.  It’s a 2 billion dollar franchise.  $15m is nothing,  they gave away three MLB players for a guy that is below replacement level in nearly every metric while charging fans $50 for parking, not paying rent on a state facility, and attempting to threaten taxpayers with re-location if politicians don’t give them a billion dollars for a new stadium.

Edited September 8 by Rusty

[Jerry McNertney]

Why would anyone think Vargas is "fixable".

[Bob Sacamano]

9 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

I'm sorry, but what fucking fan cares at all about this?

Whoo!! Jerry saves money on the Fedde deal!!! Whoooooo!!!

[Dick Allen]

12 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Basically the Sox got Vargas and the 2 minor leaguers and the money they saved on Fedde's , Pham's and Kopech's contracts . They got rid of $10M from Fedde's $15M . Kopech's salary was $3M maybe they paid him a little more than $1M and saved $2M this year perhaps and what he might have got in 2025 He'll likely make more with the Dodgers than he would have  with the Sox since he's been great with them.

Sox signed Pham for $3M but his base salary was a litte less than $468K. Not sure how much  Cards took on.

We all know the trade sucked but with the Sox you have to consider what they invested in the players and how much they saved by trading them. With JR that's equally or more important than the players acquired. When you do the owner's bidding you do the best you can under the circumstances and keep your job.  3 players and somewhere around $15M saved.

I don’t understand this. Didn’t the Sox basically sign Pham to flip at the deadline? Now not paying him the last 2 months is great business? Wouldn’t they have been better off saving even more money and not signing him at all? I just read an article about the Dodgers stealing Kopech. The price was small, Vargas, and a couple of guys who may never  get to AAA. And the Cardinals got Fedde for next year. And the Sox sent cash.  Getz got pantsed. The organization didn’t improve….

Personally, I think JR is starting to remember the profits the team was making when they weren’t trying to win, and it appeals to him. It’s disgusting what this team has become. A national joke, a laughingstock. Ken Rosenthal called them a sad sack franchise. Where’s any fucking pride?

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don’t understand this. Didn’t the Sox basically sign Pham to flip at the deadline? Now not paying him the last 2 months is great business? Wouldn’t they have been better off saving even more money and not signing him at all? I just read an article about the Dodgers stealing Kopech. The price was small, Vargas, and a couple of guys who may never  get to AAA. And the Cardinals got Fedde for next year. And the Sox sent cash.  Getz got pantsed. The organization didn’t improve….

Personally, I think JR is starting to remember the profits the team was making when they weren’t trying to win, and it appeals to him. It’s disgusting what this team has become. A national joke, a laughingstock. Ken Rosenthal called them a sad sack franchise. Where’s any fucking pride?

It’s just yet another BS post to try to claim that no other GM than Getz could have done any better, and that Getz did exactly what JR wanted — dumped salary.  It’s fake news.

A real GM could have gotten back value for a 4 WAR starting pitcher on a cheap contract as well as a relief pitcher thrown in.  Getz got back yet another pile of crap, just like the Bummer trade.

Edited September 8 by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

But that money means nothing to Sox fans or the team actually improving.  Fedde’s salary wasn’t bad money, and now the Dodgers are proving that Kopech’s salary isn’t either.

I never made any statement  about the money helping the team improve. I'm just pointing out when you  talk about how bad Getz is you need to understand things are are not as cut and dried as "he sucks so fire him". No experienced GM would work for JR. Hahn ,Williams and now Getz had never been GMs before. Each had areas that were strengths but they all just worked  around JRs interference. We know Hahn sucked at signing the Free Agents who could just come in here and start producing right away especially hitters. He got to spend more money than Getz so far. But really it didn't make much of a difference. Whether you're spending in the dumpster dive range or the kiddie pool range the more you spend only slightly increases your chances of success .$1-$10M is nothing to spend and is where you will have mostly failures. But the successes you have that will have the most value, like Rodon , is in the under $5M range . They are usually short term. Trades and other ways to pick up low cost youth like the draft are the most likely ways to add long lasting impact talent. JR has never liked to spend on youth, scouting or it's development. But this is an area that he likes to stick his nose in the most be it the regular draft or international. He won't pay for the manpower , modern equipment and these decisions have the longest lasting major negative impact on player development. You start with worse players which makes developing them harder, while your coaches and staff and analytics are all inferior which makes development harder. While you might run into some good players and personell along the way they are fewer and farther between than teams who put resources into the vital areas needed to identify and develop youth that consistently works over a long period of time. JR hasn't done it in 40+ years and he isn't going to do it now .

Any success any GM has with the Sox cannot be sustained. Hahn was blowing smoke up our asses always talking about sustained success. JR loves spending money in this area. He loves putting pie in the sky dreams out there hyping his inferior product to make it look better than it really is. Typical real estate fraud stuff. Put flowers and plants around and a new coat of paint while the foundation is crumbling or the roof is about to fall in.

 

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

40 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I don’t understand this. Didn’t the Sox basically sign Pham to flip at the deadline? Now not paying him the last 2 months is great business? Wouldn’t they have been better off saving even more money and not signing him at all? I just read an article about the Dodgers stealing Kopech. The price was small, Vargas, and a couple of guys who may never  get to AAA. And the Cardinals got Fedde for next year. And the Sox sent cash.  Getz got pantsed. The organization didn’t improve….

Personally, I think JR is starting to remember the profits the team was making when they weren’t trying to win, and it appeals to him. It’s disgusting what this team has become. A national joke, a laughingstock. Ken Rosenthal called them a sad sack franchise. Where’s any fucking pride?

I don't disagree with any of this . Signing Pham was because the Sox needed offense and to flip him .Obviously you have to make some token efforts to show you want to try to get better even though we all know signing a guy for $3M that no one else wanted was likely to fail.

There really nothing to understand about my post except that JR is the main culprit. People can cry about Getz all they want but the next GM is working in the  same system. The same system and way of running things that can't sustain success on any level except to bamboozle you into actually thinking a new GM could've gotten better results this year and next year and maybe the year after untill you're close to .500 and second or 3rd place again. Yay JR got the fans back in the ballpark with his Barnum and Bailey "there's a sucker born every minute" strategy. This isn't a sports franchise to be enjoyed by fans this is buying and selling real estate and empire building to pass onto your progeny. It's JRs Circus.

[reiks12]

Why in gods name would you trade for a guy who is needing fixing for an organization that hasnt fixed a hitter in over a decade? 

[fathom]

7 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Why in gods name would you trade for a guy who is needing fixing for an organization that hasnt fixed a hitter in over a decade? 

Especially coming from the Dodgers

[fathom]

Cali, how do you know that no experienced GM would work for Jerry?  From all accounts, no one else besides Getz was considered.   And yes, Jerry sucks, but Getz showing that he is truly atrocious at player scouting is really killing this rebuild.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Barf. I don’t care that they save money on a great, cheap signing. I don’t care that Jerry saves money here.

Neither do I . But Jerry does and that's what any GM he hires is working with. You're all hoping for miracles to happen .Some GM to come in and make great moves in a system designed for on field failure but long term profitability.

It's kind of amazing that the majority here cannot see the point of my posts. You're all fans of the wrong team like I am . The best you can hope for is JR dies soon and frankly it's not something I personally like rooting for. It'll happen eventually . If people want to think there's some miracle GM out there that can change JRs mind or make more impactful trades and get the Sox back to .500 in 4 years instead of 5 ,great, more power to your hopes and dreams of a couple of years of competitiveness. Maybe by then the Sox get sold to an owner who cares about winning .

[Bob Sacamano]

16 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Neither do I . But Jerry does and that's what any GM he hires is working with. You're all hoping for miracles to happen .Some GM to come in and make great moves in a system designed for on field failure but long term profitability.

It's kind of amazing that the majority here cannot see the point of my posts. You're all fans of the wrong team like I am . The best you can hope for is JR dies soon and frankly it's not something I personally like rooting for. It'll happen eventually . If people want to think there's some miracle GM out there that can change JRs mind or make more impactful trades and get the Sox back to .500 in 4 years instead of 5 ,great, more power to your hopes and dreams of a couple of years of competitiveness. Maybe by then the Sox get sold to an owner who cares about winning .

Lol we all understand that the problem is JR. Majority, in fact, does. That doesn’t automatically absolve anyone who works for him. Other GMs have done more with less.

Edited September 8 by Bob Sacamano

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Cali, how do you know that no experienced GM would work for Jerry?  From all accounts, no one else besides Getz was considered.   And yes, Jerry sucks, but Getz showing that he is truly atrocious at player scouting is really killing this rebuild.

I don't know that . Has he hired an experienced GM in the last 25 years ? Has he ever ? I don't know if Roland Hemond or Larry Himes had previous GM experience when they were hired . Hawk didn't . Himes didnt last long because he got sick of JR sticking his nose in.

If you want to believe Getz is killing the rebuild it's cool. The rebuild is a lie at this point of JRs life. JR killed the franchise. Keep hope alive hoping for a miracle if that comforts you. I know how condescending that sounds .

Has there ever been a time in the history of Reinsdorfs ownership that scouting and development was a strength. He won't spent on it. Expecting an understaffed and inexperienced and unqualified Getz to get it right isn't likely. It's not necessarily true that no experienced GMs would work for JR. I'm sure there are ex GMs out there who were unsuccessful GMs because they worked for owners similar to JR who might take the job but  are you really expecting JR at this point in his life to actually give a f*** about it. He hired who he wanted in charge. If he fires Getz it's only a scapegoat move to appease fans. I'm hoping it does happen so we can all see what great things happen after that. That was sarcasm.

Edited September 8 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Lol we all understand that the problem is JR. Majority, in fact, does. That doesn’t automatically absolve anyone who works for him. Other GMs have done more with less.

Different times. Yes KW worked a miracle one year where somehow some way everything magically worked. How long was he on the job before that happened ? He sure couldn't sustain it.

We haven't a clue when JR will actually give Getz or your new fantasy GM any funds to work with and even if he does what exactly to you expect ? Do you expect multiple top 100 prospects for remaing assets like Crochet or Robert ? Prying any good players out of GMs currently hoarding anything that isn't a C, 1st Baseman or pitching prospects at the upper levels is nearly impossible for a dead in the water franchise that can't get top picks because of the anti tanking rules and that JR is preparing to sell whenever he does finally pass away. It's harder than it ever has been to rebuild when you take all that's happening into consideration. But again good luck hoping for a miracle.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Lol we all understand that the problem is JR. Majority, in fact, does. That doesn’t automatically absolve anyone who works for him. Other GMs have done more with less.

Could a better GM than Getz gotten back better prospects/players than what Getz did in his deals (Bummer trade, Fletcher, Vargas, etc.)?

Yes, end of story.  Cali is sweeping a broad brush over everything, while there are still ways the team could have been improved.

None of those trades involved a lot of money in which JR was a bottleneck.  These bad trades were all on Getz’s poor assessment of players.

Edited September 8 by WhiteSox2023

[fathom]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Could a better GM than Getz gotten back better prospects/players than what Getz did in his deals (Bummer trade, Fletcher, Vargas, etc.)?

Yes, end of story.  Cali is sweeping a broad brush over everything, while there are still ways the team could have been improved.

Yeah maybe don’t let a guy you’re about to fire be a main voice in why you want to trade for a player 

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yeah maybe don’t let a guy you’re about to fire be a main voice in why you want to trade for a player 

Exactly.  That has nothing to do with the payroll.  That’s just your GM being an idiot.

Why would you trust the recommendation of an assistant hitting coach to acquire Vargas when you fire that same coach a week later?  Did Getz not have any clue he was going to fire Tosar a week after the trade deadline?

Edited September 8 by WhiteSox2023

[Bob Sacamano]

33 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Different times. Yes KW worked a miracle one year where somehow some way everything magically worked. How long was he on the job before that happened ? He sure couldn't sustain it.

We haven't a clue when JR will actually give Getz or your new fantasy GM any funds to work with and even if he does what exactly to you expect ? Do you expect multiple top 100 prospects for remaing assets like Crochet or Robert ? Prying any good players out of GMs currently hoarding anything that isn't a C, 1st Baseman or pitching prospects at the upper levels is nearly impossible for a dead in the water franchise that can't get top picks because of the anti tanking rules and that JR is preparing to sell whenever he does finally pass away. It's harder than it ever has been to rebuild when you take all that's happening into consideration. But again good luck hoping for a miracle.

 

I’m not even taking about just KW and the Sox. Other organizations with less resources and spending ability.

Edited September 8 by Bob Sacamano

[Soxfest]

Sox have absolutely nobody to fix any hitters in the organization 

[southsider2k5]

47 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yeah maybe don’t let a guy you’re about to fire be a main voice in why you want to trade for a player 

Multiple times.

[Tnetennba]

52 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  That has nothing to do with the payroll.  That’s just your GM being an idiot.

Why would you trust the recommendation of an assistant hitting coach to acquire Vargas when you fire that same coach a week later?  Did Getz not have any clue he was going to fire Tosar a week after the trade deadline?

That particular detail makes me question how much power Getz actually has over staff. Not that it absolves him of anything, but if he really were unaware that Tosar would soon be getting the ax, yikes. Neither scenario shines a particularly good light on the man's smarts, baseball or otherwise.