Sox trying to fix Vargas

[fathom]

52 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I couldn’t watch the game.  Did he swing at any fastballs after they were clearly already in the catcher’s mitt?  That’s my favorite Vargas move.

Of course…anything over 93-94 just blows him away. He will be out of baseball in a few years.

[Tnetennba]

52 minutes ago, fathom said:

Of course…anything over 93-94 just blows him away. He will be out of baseball in a few years.

How the hell was he a highly rated prospect?

[Ozzie for Manager]

Every year teams continue to dump failed prospects on us.  Rutherford, Eder, Vargas. 

Outside of Qero have we really done well in a trade the last 5 years. 

[kitekrazy]

2 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

How the hell was he a highly rated prospect?

That and farm system rankings are overrated. 

Trying to improve a farm system by trading for other team's prospect says you are not good at identifying talent and it's this vicious circle that repeats.  What's worse is thinking you can fix a prospect from a far more superior organization.

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

That and farm system rankings are overrated. 

Trying to improve a farm system by trading for other team's prospect says you are not good at identifying talent and it's this vicious circle that repeats.  What's worse is thinking you can fix a prospect from a far more superior organization.

There’s a reason the Dodgers were probably thrilled to give him up to get what they wanted — Edman and Kopech.  They gave up junk and got what they needed.

The pathetic thing is Vargas can’t even hit as well as Edman.

Edited September 12 by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

8 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

By “everyone” you mean just Kopech right? Orioles fans are ready to launch Eloy into the sun, Fedde has been worse, and Pham was already let go by the Cardinals.

Shh, you're not supposed to try to correct wrong negative statements. Everything you say must be prefaced with I'm not sticking up for ( insert Sox player, coach or FO person or owner) however...

Somehow now the implication is the Orioles would've traded  Norby for Fedde and it's Getz fault that didn't happen ?

Edited September 12 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Balta1701]

45 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Somehow now the implication is the Orioles would've traded  Norby for Fedde and it's Getz fault that didn't happen ?

Trevor Rogers has a 7.33 ERA with the orioles and was sent to AAA after a couple starts so yes Fedde would have been significantly better for them and Chris “smack my b**** up” Getz got substantially less for Fedde than the Marlins got and both the Os and White Sox are worse for it.

[WhiteSox2023]

33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Trevor Rogers has a 7.33 ERA with the orioles and was sent to AAA after a couple starts so yes Fedde would have been significantly better for them and Chris “smack my b**** up” Getz got substantially less for Fedde than the Marlins got and both the Os and White Sox are worse for it.

Exactly.  I can’t believe this is even in question.  Some posters tried to say that Trevor Rogers was more desirable than Fedde because he had an extra year of control over Fedde.  An extra year of control over a bad #5 starter isn’t exactly a plus over simply taking the better starter.  You think the Orioles wouldn’t rather have Fedde right now in their rotation rather than Rogers in AAA?

And even if some posters still stubbornly believe that Norby wasn’t on the table for Fedde, I would also rather have prospect Luke Keaschall, healing from TJ surgery, right now over Vargas.  Getz is a fool.

People giving Getz the benefit of the doubt on his trade deadline is ridiculous.  He has already proven he is a terrible assessor of talent — see the Bummer for a “big pile of crap trade” and choosing Dominic Fletcher over Jake McCarthy.

The same Getz apologists will continue to blame Jerry when there were definitely moves that Getz could have made that would have improved the team.

The Marlins absolutely destroyed what Getz did with Fedde/Kopech with their trades of Puk and Rogers.  Both teams had similar trade assets but only the Marlins came away with a good return at the trade deadline.

Edited September 12 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

https://sports.yahoo.com/los-angeles-angels-2024-offseason-preview-as-the-rebuild-continues-what-should-the-angels-do-about-mike-trout-023547882.html

Even the Angels already have three young and now proven position players to build around...Sox will be at zero with Robert trade.

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  I can’t believe this is even in question.  Some posters tried to say that Trevor Rogers was more desirable than Fedde because he had an extra year of control over Fedde.  An extra year of control over a bad #5 starter isn’t exactly a plus over simply taking the better starter.  You think the Orioles wouldn’t rather have Fedde right now in their rotation rather than Rogers in AAA?

And even if some posters still stubbornly believe that Norby wasn’t on the table for Fedde, I would also rather have prospect Luke Keaschall, healing from TJ surgery, right now over Vargas.  Getz is a fool.

People giving Getz the benefit of the doubt on his trade deadline is ridiculous.  He has already proven he is a terrible assessor of talent — see the Bummer for a “big pile of crap trade” and choosing Dominic Fletcher over Jake McCarthy.

The same Getz apologists will continue to blame Jerry when there were definitely moves that Getz could have made that would have improved the team.

The Marlins absolutely destroyed what Getz did with Fedde/Kopech with their trades of Puk and Rogers.  Both teams had similar trade assets but only the Marlins came away with a good return at the trade deadline.

Asking for those three guys was always going to be a no go.

Twins excel at finding bargain veteran pitching.

[Dick Allen]

If there is any team that can fix Vargas, it's the White Sox said no one ever.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Asking for those three guys was always going to be a no go.

Twins excel at finding bargain veteran pitching.

There is an “or” in the tweet.  Dan Hayes also says in the video that the Sox wanted one of those three prospects, not all three.  Asking for one of those three guys was probably a bit much but I would have gladly taken their #4 prospect back for Fedde in Keaschall.

Edited September 12 by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Trevor Rogers has a 7.33 ERA with the orioles and was sent to AAA after a couple starts so yes Fedde would have been significantly better for them and Chris “smack my b**** up” Getz got substantially less for Fedde than the Marlins got and both the Os and White Sox are worse for it.

Yes Balta I know all that. But you didn't address the issue. Is there any proof that the Orioles actually wanted Fedde over Rogers.

Rogers had 1 more year of control than Fedde. The Orioles were also looking for a LH starter. His last 9 starts he had a 3.17 ERA.

Try becoming familiar with facts of the trade before jumping to any conclusions. You know it is possible other GMs make bad trades. That appears to be the case in this instance. The O's wanted a LH SP and an extra year of control. Until you or anyone else says they have proof the O's made a good offer for Fedde you should probably stop assuming things .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  I can’t believe this is even in question.  Some posters tried to say that Trevor Rogers was more desirable than Fedde because he had an extra year of control over Fedde.  An extra year of control over a bad #5 starter isn’t exactly a plus over simply taking the better starter.  You think the Orioles wouldn’t rather have Fedde right now in their rotation rather than Rogers in AAA?

And even if some posters still stubbornly believe that Norby wasn’t on the table for Fedde, I would also rather have prospect Luke Keaschall, healing from TJ surgery, right now over Vargas.  Getz is a fool.

People giving Getz the benefit of the doubt on his trade deadline is ridiculous.  He has already proven he is a terrible assessor of talent — see the Bummer for a “big pile of crap trade” and choosing Dominic Fletcher over Jake McCarthy.

The same Getz apologists will continue to blame Jerry when there were definitely moves that Getz could have made that would have improved the team.

The Marlins absolutely destroyed what Getz did with Fedde/Kopech with their trades of Puk and Rogers.  Both teams had similar trade assets but only the Marlins came away with a good return at the trade deadline.

Youre funny. Getz apologists ? Im criticizing you and others just assuming the O's would've rather had Fedde just because he was available at the same time as Rogers. The O's got who they wanted at the time. Other GMs make bad trades too. That's it.

Try using some common sense. Bad GM making bad trades does not equal Bad GM could've made imaginary trade that you made up in your head using your great gift of hindsight.

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Yes Balta I know all that. But you didn't address the issue. Is there any proof that the Orioles actually wanted Fedde over Rogers.

Rogers had 1 more year of control than Fedde. The Orioles were also looking for a LH starter. His last 9 starts he had a 3.17 ERA.

Try becoming familiar with facts of the trade before jumping to any conclusions. You know it is possible other GMs make bad trades. That appears to be the case in this instance. The O's wanted a LH SP and an extra year of control. Until you or anyone else says they have proof the O's made a good offer for Fedde you should probably stop assuming things .

While maybe not the Orioles specifically, as you can see above, there's plenty of so-called garbage "Insider proof" that there were offers available for Fedde better than the 0 players they got back for him if you want to believe that.

But, if your whole story relies on "I believe that everything which is leaked has 0 underlying motive and is 100% accurate and I will call you out if you disagree with this so it must be the case", then I have some cats you can eat.

[WhiteSox2023]

32 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Youre funny. Getz apologists ? Im criticizing you and others just assuming the O's would've rather had Fedde just because he was available at the same time as Rogers. The O's got who they wanted at the time. Other GMs make bad trades too. That's it.

Try using some common sense. Bad GM making bad trades does not equal Bad GM could've made imaginary trade that you made up in your head using your great gift of hindsight.

I just posted a tweet from a Twins beat reporter stating Minnesota’s offer for Fedde, which was better than Vargas.  A 22-year old that was the Twins #4 prospect at the time.  Not a guy whose service time had already started who had already shown he couldn’t hit or field with the Dodgers.

The tweet is from August 1st, literally right after the trade deadline, and I remember seeing it when most of this site was pissed off about the garbage Fedde/Kopech return.

Is this hindsight as well?

It’s pretty funny you are trying to make this weak argument when we already have evidence that Getz has picked the wrong guy in a trade just earlier in the season.  Does Dominic Fletcher over Jake McCarthy ring a bell?

Is this enough common sense for you?

Edited September 12 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

The two arguments there are the injury issue with the Twins' kid and the undermanned Sox scouting department overvaluing Vargas based on past versus current year reports on his offense and defense.

Or one can argue that Getz simply wouldn't trade with divisional rival without an overpay of a Top 3/current Top 50 MiLB prospect guy in their system.

That clearly went awry...and the bloom is off the Brooks Lee rose a bit, but still 100x a better prospect at this moment in time than Vargas, who looks more like DAngelo Jimenez for the time being.

Edited September 12 by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The two arguments there are the injury issue with the Twins' kid and the undermanned Sox scouting department overvaluing Vargas based on past versus current year reports on his offense and defense.

Or one can argue that Getz simply wouldn't trade with divisional rival without an overpay of a Top 3/current Top 50 MiLB prospect guy in their system.

That clearly went awry...and the bloom is off the Brooks Lee rose a bit, but still 100x a better prospect at this moment in time than Vargas, who looks more like DAngelo Jimenez for the time being.

TJ surgery is not as big of a deal for hitters as it is for pitchers, and this kid was still raking through his injury.

Also, the Sox are nowhere close to competing so it’s better that Keaschall would have had all of his service time left, while also letting the Sox choose when to start his clock.

Vargas already had only 5 years of control when the Sox acquired him and that will be decreasing while the Sox are still terrible for who knows how long?

Finally, the notion of not trading a pitcher that only has one more year of control within the division while your team will suck is absolutely moronic if true.

Edited September 12 by WhiteSox2023

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

The two arguments there are the injury issue with the Twins' kid and the undermanned Sox scouting department overvaluing Vargas based on past versus current year reports on his offense and defense.

Or one can argue that Getz simply wouldn't trade with divisional rival without an overpay of a Top 3/current Top 50 MiLB prospect guy in their system.

That clearly went awry...and the bloom is off the Brooks Lee rose a bit, but still 100x a better prospect at this moment in time than Vargas, who looks more like DAngelo Jimenez for the time being.

and they share the same spring training facility........what did they miss

[JoeC]

2 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

and they share the same spring training facility........what did they miss

Don't ask questions you don't want the answers to.

[Paulie4Pres]

The fact that the White Sox traded for this guy is a colossal red flag, and gives me zero hope for the future of this team. You only needed to watch him play 3-4 games to realize he's absolute dogshit. He's a terrible baseball player who is a liability anywhere in the field, who can't fucking hit. What the f*** could they have possibly seen in him to make them think: "Yeah, that's the prospect we want."?

Edited September 12 by Paulie4Pres

[caulfield12]

30 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

The fact that the White Sox traded for this guy is a colossal red flag, and gives me zero hope for the future of this team. You only needed to watch him play 3-4 games to realize he's absolute dogshit. He's a terrible baseball player who is a liability anywhere in the field, who can't fucking hit. What the f*** could they have possibly seen in him to make them think: "Yeah, that's the prospect we want."?

Obviously the 2022-23 Vargas....you simply don't become a Top 70ish prospect without some scouting positives on your side.

Past tense.

See Oscar Colas as well.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

I don't think they missed anything.  I think we're gonna see a very different player come spring training.

[Balta1701]

28 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't think they missed anything.  I think we're gonna see a very different player come spring training.

Why? What will the White Sox be changing that the Dodgers couldn't or wouldn't change? What is wrong with him now?

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why? What will the White Sox be changing that the Dodgers couldn't or wouldn't change? What is wrong with him now?

Needs an injection of confidence.