Marco Paddy fired

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

Young players struggling and/or having mixed results during their first big league season? That has never happened before.

And why are people so concerned about the bullpen of a team that was designed to lose 100+ games? It doesn’t matter and it doesn’t say anything positive or negative about the future of the team. 

So he's awesome,  but don't expect any results?

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

And why are people so concerned about the bullpen of a team that was designed to lose 100+ games? It doesn’t matter and it doesn’t say anything positive or negative about the future of the team. 

Are you saying there’s no difference between having a historically bad bullpen comprised almost entirely of players that have no future with the team and having a bullpen where you’ve identified several players that you’re comfortable with moving forward?

A closer on a 100+ loss team doesn’t matter. A bullpen, or at least some vague idea of a bullpen foundation moving forward, absolutely matters for the future of the team.

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

Young players struggling and/or having mixed results during their first big league season? That has never happened before.

And why are people so concerned about the bullpen of a team that was designed to lose 100+ games? It doesn’t matter and it doesn’t say anything positive or negative about the future of the team. 

It wasn’t designed to lose 100 games. That is the problem. The one thing you can build in MLB relatively cheaply if you know what you are doing, is a bullpen. No members of Chris Getz inaugural bullpen made it through one season with the team. White Sox pitching has a long ways to go, and it’s going to require some good breaks going the teams way. The hitting is so bad everyone thinks the pitching is fine ignoring the onky staff with a higher ERA is Colorado.

Edited September 6 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

The problem is control as usual, hard throwing guys like Iriarte and Berroa have pretty erratic (at best) control...Bush Nastrini and Eder don't seem special in any way at this point.

"Iriarte, 22, split last season between High- and Double-A. He notched a 3.49 ERA and a 2.84 strikeout-to-walk ratio, all the while punching out nearly 27% of the batters he faced. Iriarte has a good fastball-slider combination that he delivers from a low three-quarters slot. He does have a long arm stroke that helps explain why he's struggled with his command. Last year, he walked a batter every other inning. The winds of change have impacted the profile and expectation of the starting pitcher position in recent years, meaning that Iriarte still has a chance to be a mid-rotation starter."

"Zavala, 19, split last season between High- and Low-A. He hit .243/.391/.406 with 14 home runs and 21 stolen bases. Those marks don't jump off the page, but it is worth noting that he was more than three years younger than his average opponent at both levels. Zavala is a left-handed hitter with a big leg kick and above-average raw strength. He has struggled with strikeouts throughout his professional career, and his swing-and-miss tendencies could cap his batting average upside. Zavala is young and established enough to foresee him developing into a starting outfielder, likely in a corner."

CBSsports.com

All I see here is K's, marginal power for a corner OFer who's going to be a stretch to play CF regularly...and then dealing with any big timing mechanism like a large leg kick is even more challenging for Sox hitting coaches.

[bmags]

39 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

It wasn’t designed to lose 100 games. That is the problem. The one thing you can build in MLB relatively cheaply if you know what you are doing, is a bullpen. No members of Chris Getz inaugural bullpen made it through one season with the team. White Sox pitching has a long ways to go, and it’s going to require some good breaks going the teams way. The hitting is so bad everyone thinks the pitching is fine ignoring the onky staff with a higher ERA is Colorado.

Yeah, esp. with rule 5 and waivers. Bailey horn just looks like he sucks, but I do find it funny that we were selling some of this excess bullpen help in April.

I haven't quite figured out whether Bannister/Katz. I do think the work with starters has been interesting, and possibly good. BUt - we also put probably the most effort into organizational starting pitching in the last 8 months. So is it that they developed pitching strongly enough to pull our farm top 10, or that we traded and drafted some really nice pitching prospects.

The bullpen has been atrocious though, and I am inclined, as you, to say that's scouting and talent. Some luck. Katz seems to work best with super stuff type pitchers with bad control and making it work just enough. Well, Leasure was the one stuff guy they found. And they didn't do good work with Kopech. So I don't know what to think.

I'm not quite sure I understand if Bannister Katz is actually better than an average group in the rest of the mlb. And the sox really, really, really need to find something they are elite at.

[Rowand44]

8 minutes ago, bmags said:

And the sox really, really, really need to find something they are elite at.

Pissing their fans off?

[bmags]

Just now, Rowand44 said:

Pissing their fans off?

something productive.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Snopek said:

Are you saying there’s no difference between having a historically bad bullpen comprised almost entirely of players that have no future with the team and having a bullpen where you’ve identified several players that you’re comfortable with moving forward?

A closer on a 100+ loss team doesn’t matter. A bullpen, or at least some vague idea of a bullpen foundation moving forward, absolutely matters for the future of the team.

Again, where all of these gains we were supposed to be seeing?

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Pissing their fans off?

literal 80 tools

[Rowand44]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

something productive.

Driving conversation on Soxtalk by pissing their fans off?

 

Ok, I'll stop now.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Rowand44 said:

Driving conversation on Soxtalk by pissing their fans off?

 

Ok, I'll stop now.

The first rule of Soxtalk is we don't talk about the grand conspiracy to drive traffic to Soxtalk.  Do you know how hard it was to Gage the Sox?  Oh, I have said too much.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

Yeah, esp. with rule 5 and waivers. Bailey horn just looks like he sucks, but I do find it funny that we were selling some of this excess bullpen help in April.

I haven't quite figured out whether Bannister/Katz. I do think the work with starters has been interesting, and possibly good. BUt - we also put probably the most effort into organizational starting pitching in the last 8 months. So is it that they developed pitching strongly enough to pull our farm top 10, or that we traded and drafted some really nice pitching prospects.

The bullpen has been atrocious though, and I am inclined, as you, to say that's scouting and talent. Some luck. Katz seems to work best with super stuff type pitchers with bad control and making it work just enough. Well, Leasure was the one stuff guy they found. And they didn't do good work with Kopech. So I don't know what to think.

I'm not quite sure I understand if Bannister Katz is actually better than an average group in the rest of the mlb. And the sox really, really, really need to find something they are elite at.

Well soon they'll be holding the record for the worst season in modern MLB history. That's pretty elite!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

19 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Great point.  He has been hyped up as another pitching guru like Katz, yet the overall results aren’t there.  I assume people are giving him credit mainly for Crochet and Fedde?

Great point ? The team was a cast of rejects. WTF did you expert Bannister to do ? I highly doubt his focus was on the 2024 team.He's mostly making sure the Minor League pitching is being taken care of. The not being able to see past the 2024 team is weird.

Pitching is the only thing now that can get the Sox inching slowly back to .500 and beyond.Obviously there's a lot more work to be done.

[Lip Man 1]

More info from a source who commented on the four scouts fired (which I posted in their thread):

"I was a little worried Marco would be let go. A scout from another team thinks he’ll get a job quickly. Latin American talent is volatile. Marco connected on a few but had some big swings and misses lately, which hurt him. I know Doug Laumann liked working for him."

 

[caulfield12]

37 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

More info from a source who commented on the four scouts fired (which I posted in their thread):

"I was a little worried Marco would be let go. A scout from another team thinks he’ll get a job quickly. Latin American talent is volatile. Marco connected on a few but had some big swings and misses lately, which hurt him. I know Doug Laumann liked working for him."

 

https://nkytribune.com/2023/07/dedicated-to-baseball-laumanns-are-opening-new-facility-d-bat-in-hebron-for-year-round-activities/

Here's what Laumann and son are doing now that he's out of professional baseball scouting work...

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 9/5/2024 at 8:05 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Positive?  I thought @CaliSoxFanViaSWside basically has been saying that no one could have success, Getz or any other GM, because JR is the true problem.  While I think there are various levels of bad, and Getz has done worse than other potential candidates could have done, he does have a point with targeting JR.  Ultimately, they are all part of the same shitshow and JR is the ultimate boss over everyone, including Getz or any other GM he would have hired.  And JR definitely has a vise grip over his purse strings when the Sox are bad.

My favorite poster is @Balta1701 because he literally self-banned himself when Clevinger was re-signed, and then came back to posting once Clevinger was injured for the season.  That’s fucking devotion to your beliefs!

I think there are varying levels of success someone with more experience could have had. But given the budget Getz was given ,apply that to anyone else ,add in the usual injuries / non performance of the usual suspects this team was still hurtling towards the all time bad record. It was apparent as early as December and January when I started making multiple posts on it.

I think perhaps a more experienced GM makes a bigger difference in trades . However despite that I look at how all the teams followed Baltimore's lead and no one gave up top prospects. So it wasn't really a seller's market. Maybe it would have opened up if just one top prospect was traded to get a difference maker. It's a copycat group think when it came to trading top prospects but once one gets traded and other teams think you have the upper hand to a Championship the competitive juices of one-upmanship starts to flow among the GMs. Unfortunately that never happened. They were all content working on depth. No one got a difference maker high talented multiple years left on a contract type. I'm not even sure their were many traded who could make an impact in a long playoff run acquired.

I also think other GMs treat the Sox differently partly because of Getz inexperience but mainly because it's painfully obvious JR needs capital for his other projects. The less he spends on the Sox the faster he'll get the whole area around the UC turned into the the Bulls /Blackhawks utopia him and The Wirtz's have teamed up on and get his new network going to showcase it all. Yes the Sox are a part of the new network too but they will be sold off ASAP after JR dies. The Sox  aren't exactly his priority and everyone knows it .

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Benintendi's contract added to a Robert trade and BAM the Sox 2 biggest contracts now off the books.

Maybe then you can offer Crochet an extension and really concentrate on pitching as the road back to respectability. Or you just trade him too. Since he's cheap I can actually see Getz going into next season with him still on the team . Getz will be low balled again and Crochet may have to prove it much like many wanted Cease to do. But Cease was coming off an unspectacular year and they couldn't take the chance he'd flop especially pitching for a miserable bunch of bums. Crochet has already shown he can pitch well surrounded by a terrible team. He may have to do it again next year at least up until they get a couple legitimate offers for him.

Edited September 7 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
slight error fixes

[chitownsportsfan]

21 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

More info from a source who commented on the four scouts fired (which I posted in their thread):

"I was a little worried Marco would be let go. A scout from another team thinks he’ll get a job quickly. Latin American talent is volatile. Marco connected on a few but had some big swings and misses lately, which hurt him. I know Doug Laumann liked working for him."

 

Sounds like a buddy buddy club in the scouting department. Maybe shaking it up is a good thing, hear me out here!

[Quin]

37 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Sounds like a buddy buddy club in the scouting department. Maybe shaking it up is a good thing, hear me out here!

I thought about that quote and it made me realize: Paddy had to work under unfair restrictions put in place by JR, Kenny, Hahn and Getz. They should fire Getz and make Paddy the GM so he can do a better job.

[chitownsportsfan]

16 minutes ago, Quin said:

I thought about that quote and it made me realize: Paddy had to work under unfair restrictions put in place by JR, Kenny, Hahn and Getz. They should fire Getz and make Paddy the GM so he can do a better job.

Same s%*# that was trotted out by the diehard Hahn folks.