24-25 NFL Thread

[Tony]

4 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

The hope would be could they get him on a shorter prove it deal to pair with Wright and three new bodies to start and find 4 other bodies to back up.

The Bears need to invest their 3 top picks in OL.  Williams is the future, if the defense suffers so be it.  Then drop a bag of cash on someone in FA.  IF they stick with Jenkins then draft a DL with their third pick

All this being said, i have zero faith that Poles can do any better at his job then some folks off the street.  His inability to do anything other than benefit from losing is rather amazing.

My fear is he will trade up to take a stud OL and lose draft capital needed for his misses and inability to draft a strong class across the board. 

That is another reason on a long list of reasons why you don't bring him back. He's going to be GM'ing with a different motive in mind, trying to fix this as quickly as possible to "right" his "wrongs" so to speak. 

I want the right process, not him dealing capital away for giant swings because he has something to prove. It's time to turn the page. But they won't. 

[PaleAleSox]

I am not too worried about him trading up for an O-lineman. They will be picking 9th at worst, 4th at best. I don't see the need to do it. My fear is he goes pass rusher first (which would be fine), but then uses the Panthers pick on like a corner or something. 

[Kyyle23]

40 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

The hope would be could they get him on a shorter prove it deal to pair with Wright and three new bodies to start and find 4 other bodies to back up.

The Bears need to invest their 3 top picks in OL.  Williams is the future, if the defense suffers so be it.  Then drop a bag of cash on someone in FA.  IF they stick with Jenkins then draft a DL with their third pick

All this being said, i have zero faith that Poles can do any better at his job then some folks off the street.  His inability to do anything other than benefit from losing is rather amazing.

My fear is he will trade up to take a stud OL and lose draft capital needed for his misses and inability to draft a strong class across the board. 

If they keep Poles he has a long way towards regaining the trust he had from the fanbase.  That entire draft has to hit, and I agree he cannot trade draft capital

[Milkman delivers]

I’m officially off the Lions bandwagon. That defense will cost them in the playoffs.

[Kyyle23]

6 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

I’m officially off the Lions bandwagon. That defense will cost them in the playoffs.

For sure, but their offense is HUMMING.  It’s a shame though, because their opening day defense was really fucking good.  It’s basically all second and third string out there now

[Boopa1219]

Joe Burrow should win MVP. He’s been unreal, Cincy would be winless without him. 

[Kyyle23]

44 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

Joe Burrow should win MVP. He’s been unreal, Cincy would be winless without him. 

I don’t know how you can give it to anyone but Josh Allen right now.  He is doing everything and has all season long 

[bmags]

25 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I don’t know how you can give it to anyone but Josh Allen right now.  He is doing everything and has all season long 

I don’t think anyone has a chance over Lamar again.

[SoxAce]

Yea I'm giving it to Lamar. He's putting up numbers that are even better than his MVP seasons. But I think the league will give it to Allen because they probably don't want Lamar to win a 3rd MVP (and a back to back).

[Kyyle23]

No shade on Lamar and he will be deserving as well, it just feels like he has unlocked a new level because he gained Derrick, and Allen unlocked a new level because he lost Diggs.  
 

[caulfield12]

Allen has had that one lousy game down the stretch and then will probably sit this last one...but that throw to himself for the diving TD might have clinched it.

Burrow has some many weapons around him...comparatively.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills

Not even the Dolphins would have bingo-carded Shakir leading the team in receptions...or Hollins.

They have solid/capable TEs, but no great running back (Chase Brown has been a godsend for Cincy) and Cooper and Coleman are nowhere close to Chase and Higgins.

Edited December 31, 2024 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

11 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

No shade on Lamar and he will be deserving as well, it just feels like he has unlocked a new level because he gained Derrick, and Allen unlocked a new level because he lost Diggs.  
 

I do think there's a bit of "Jesus both of these guys are ridiculous this year, but Lamar has 2 MVPs and Allen has 0, so Josh should win 1". 

But, remember the year McNair and Manning split one? I'd be ok with that. When you can give a list of QBs who have done this, and the list is literally "Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson in 2024", how do you give Lamar a 3rd MVP and say that Josh still is a 0-MVP player?

[Chicago White Sox]

Lot of rumors out there regarding Ben Johnson, but not sure how legitimate they are.  It sounds like he wants the Bears job, but may push for a different GM to be paired with him (WAS Assistant GM).  At the same time, Poles would like to stay clear of him for the same reasons.  Again, not sure if there is any merit, but if so, I’d quickly kick Poles to the curb and let Johnson do his thing.  Just got a bad feeling that Poles will be allowed to make the call and he’ll bring in a defensive minded “leader of men” type like Flores and f*** this all up.

[Kyyle23]

54 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lot of rumors out there regarding Ben Johnson, but not sure how legitimate they are.  It sounds like he wants the Bears job, but may push for a different GM to be paired with him (WAS Assistant GM).  At the same time, Poles would like to stay clear of him for the same reasons.  Again, not sure if there is any merit, but if so, I’d quickly kick Poles to the curb and let Johnson do his thing.  Just got a bad feeling that Poles will be allowed to make the call and he’ll bring in a defensive minded “leader of men” type like Flores and f*** this all up.

I think Flores would be amazing if he had a strong OC

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think Flores would be amazing if he had a strong OC

And thus continues the vicious circle of not having any continuity at OC.  If Flores hires an OC and they have success they will be gone then you have the same issue as what happened when Gase was the OC.

Poles can't seem to judge much of anything so he will hire Flores and then hopefully only go through 2 OC's next year before maybe figuring it out.

The hire should be Ben Johnson or bust.  Flores would be a good hire but who manages the offensive side of the ball.  Vrabel and somehow getting Arthur Smith/Josh Mc Daniels would make sense and if Flores has a connection like that fine.  Flores would need to have a guy that isn't HC material moving forward.....like Shane Waldron was thought to be.  The odd thing is that nobody really thought Waldron was a good hire outside of the Bears and that is why I think they fail again this offseason.

  

  

[Kyyle23]

10 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

And thus continues the vicious circle of not having any continuity at OC.  If Flores hires an OC and they have success they will be gone then you have the same issue as what happened when Gase was the OC.

Poles can't seem to judge much of anything so he will hire Flores and then hopefully only go through 2 OC's next year before maybe figuring it out.

The hire should be Ben Johnson or bust.  Flores would be a good hire but who manages the offensive side of the ball.  Vrabel and somehow getting Arthur Smith/Josh Mc Daniels would make sense and if Flores has a connection like that fine.  Flores would need to have a guy that isn't HC material moving forward.....like Shane Waldron was thought to be.  The odd thing is that nobody really thought Waldron was a good hire outside of the Bears and that is why I think they fail again this offseason.

  

  

OCs move on regardless, Gase was meant to move the day he was hired and the bears knew that.  Ben Johnson would be ideal, I’m not ruling him out and I’m not dismissing him, but Flores has done the job before and is running an amazing defense.  If Johnson comes I have no qualms with it, but if it doesn’t work out and Flores is the hire and brings a bonafide OC I will have no problems with it at all

are you suggesting they hire a shitty OC so he doesn’t leave because they had success?  Because if your OC is getting poached, then something good just happened 

[Chisoxfn]

Foster, Kingsbury, Flores or Vrabel would all be acceptable in my book. Each has enough on their resume to get you excited - obviously uncertainty with each too, but they aren’t Flus or Trestmans. 
 

They could be Foxs or Nagys though but that is less disastrous. I still love idea of Vrabel with a strong OC who was a failed HC but very proven OC. 

[Chisoxfn]

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

OCs move on regardless, Gase was meant to move the day he was hired and the bears knew that.  Ben Johnson would be ideal, I’m not ruling him out and I’m not dismissing him, but Flores has done the job before and is running an amazing defense.  If Johnson comes I have no qualms with it, but if it doesn’t work out and Flores is the hire and brings a bonafide OC I will have no problems with it at all

are you suggesting they hire a shitty OC so he doesn’t leave because they had success?  Because if your OC is getting poached, then something good just happened 

Exactly - and a good offensive HC still will need a good OC if they are going to be a head coach - obviously they still call some shots. 

[Chicago White Sox]

On 1/2/2025 at 8:43 AM, Kyyle23 said:

I think Flores would be amazing if he had a strong OC

What makes you think he’ll finally be able to identify a good OC?  They had like four different ones during his three year run in Miami.  And does his handling of Tua make you confident he’s the right guy for Caleb?  Hiring Flores would be a tremendous risk and one we can’t afford to take.

I just think it’s foolish to hire a HC candidate because he runs a good defense, especially when you have a young developing QB.  Go grab the next defensive oriented HC who fails like the Vikings did with Flores themselves and you are set at DC.  This next HC hire to be entirely focused on turning Caleb into a legit franchise QB and that dude is Ben Johnson.  Warren needs to make it happen one way or the other and settling on anyone else (even Vrabel) would be a huge disappointment.

[SoxAce]

I still don't get why Ben Johnson is such a "its either him or bust" candidate. I'm not saying he's Nagy 2.0 because he's far from it (he's a much better off offensive mind) but he does alot of the same gimmicky plays with the luxury of having an elite offensive line. The Bears could draft and/or sign 4 new offensive lineman (which is pretty much what they need to do minus Darnell Wright) and they still likely won't have a top 10 offensive line like the Lions do. Could he be the next O'Connell/Shanahan/Lafleur offensive mind stud coach? Possibly. He could also easily he the next Josh McDaniels. It would be yet another first year head coach you are risking to be put in this position in this organization.

To me Vrabel is the clear choice. He's a defensive guy sure, but he's also worked with the offensive guys too (was a TE coach in Cleveland after taking the year off) and having a guy who knows ball on both sides of it is CRUCIAL in this. But I also don't think the McCaskeys would ever sign off on a guy with his in your face personality. They didn't sign off on Harbaugh for that same reason. They want a "yes" man which is why quite a few have said things won't change until ownership does.

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

I still don't get why Ben Johnson is such a "its either him or bust" candidate. I'm not saying he's Nagy 2.0 because he's far from it (he's a much better off offensive mind) but he does alot of the same gimmicky plays with the luxury of having an elite offensive line. The Bears could draft and/or sign 4 new offensive lineman (which is pretty much what they need to do minus Darnell Wright) and they still likely won't have a top 10 offensive line like the Lions do. Could he be the next O'Connell/Shanahan/Lafleur offensive mind stud coach? Possibly. He could also easily he the next Josh McDaniels. It would be yet another first year head coach you are risking to be put in this position in this organization.

To me Vrabel is the clear choice. He's a defensive guy sure, but he's also worked with the offensive guys too (was a TE coach in Cleveland after taking the year off) and having a guy who knows ball on both sides of it is CRUCIAL in this. But I also don't think the McCaskeys would ever sign off on a guy with his in your face personality. They didn't sign off on Harbaugh for that same reason. They want a "yes" man which is why quite a few have said things won't change until ownership does.

I am not strongly pro-anyone, but I don't see how Ben Johnson gets zero credit for the performance of his team's offensive line over multiple seasons.

[SoxAce]

26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I am not strongly pro-anyone, but I don't see how Ben Johnson gets zero credit for the performance of his team's offensive line over multiple seasons.

Look at their draft credentials. Penei Sewell 1st round. Frank Ragnow 1st round. Taylor Decker 1st round. Hell even a guy like Graham Glasgow was a 3rd round pick that came from a winning program and the Lions switched to guard from center which was great for his development. 

Now look at the Bears draft picks on OL. Darnell Wright 1st round. And then what? I'll throw Tevin Jenkins in there even though he came from the other regime, 2nd round (had back issues in college so he was damaged goods coming in). They took Kiran Amegadjie 3rd round out of a small school in Yale as a project pick (who also had a knee issue in college) and then got lucky with Braxton Jones in the 5th round who is serviceable in a pinch but not a starting tackle in the league and you are asking him to block Caleb's blind side? Hell even a FA signing like Nate Davis was awful who ALSO had red flags in Tennessee. Don't get me started on Coleman Shelton. Basically Lucas Patrick 2.0 (another Poles signing by the way).

This isn't rocket science. Poles neglect of the offensive line to protect your starting QB (and this even goes back to Justin Fields) is an indictment on him. Yet some people here want him to lead the head coaching search and find 4 new offensive lineman? He needs to be gone as well with the McCaskeys. 

Should Ben Johnson get 0 credit? Not saying that, but let's not act like he isn't working with a talented OL group who is making his play calling what it is now. He wouldn't be doing alot of these gimmicky plays if the OL was even average. 

Edited 6 hours ago by SoxAce

[Chisoxfn]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I am not strongly pro-anyone, but I don't see how Ben Johnson gets zero credit for the performance of his team's offensive line over multiple seasons.

Or fact he took Goff to another level - the same Goff who worked with an all Time great offensive guy in McVay. 
 

I love Vrabel cause I think he fits what they need but I get Foster..could even get behind Flores or Kingsbury. 

[Balta1701]

11 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Or fact he took Goff to another level - the same Goff who worked with an all Time great offensive guy in McVay. 
 

I love Vrabel cause I think he fits what they need but I get Foster..could even get behind Flores or Kingsbury. 

I can’t figure out why Johnson is totally off all your lists. 

[Chisoxfn]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I can’t figure out why Johnson is totally off all your lists. 

Foster = Johnson. I have no idea but I always call him Foster. Him and Vrabel are 1A and 1B. Pete Carroll is also acceptable for me.