24-25 NFL Thread

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said:

The Bears could have had CJ Stroud. The Bears could have had Jayden Daniels. Both dudes are still playing in the final 8 while Caleb Williams and the Bears sit at home. It is clear as day right now that the Bears picked the wrong QB. This Bears rebuild has been an absolute disaster and it is going to take an absolute miracle to turn it around like Wahsington and Houston did. 

I think you are jumping the gun far too soon.  Stroud is one thing, but If you look at both Caleb’s and Jayden’s stats on the season, they are very comparable.  But Caleb did it with a garbage OL and moronic coaching.  Meanwhile, Jayden is in a much better situation.  I wouldn’t be surprised if you swapped both QB’s and put Caleb on the Commanders and Jayden on the Bears, Caleb would look like the stud and Jayden would have struggled.

Edited 18 hours ago by WhiteSox2023

[Chisoxfn]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Maye has looked solid, Young in Carolina down the stretch too.  Penix with flashes...we'll see next year.

Some organizations have so many flaws that they just screw up everything they touch.

Jax CLE Bears Jets Raiders immediately come to mind.

This is why Mike McCarthy or Pete Carroll are so intriguing. They know how to win, they bring a program that works.  McCarthy in particular is very intriguing to me as he is an offensive mind who was at the ground level in Rodger's development (and also helped get Matt Flynn paid) and than did good work with Dak.  

Monday through Saturday he is a professional coach who knows what it takes to win.  The only real knock on him is his in-game management and at this point, I think the Bears have been so broken for years, getting someone to get the Monday-Saturday dialed in and who can work with young QB's and develop QB's would be a huge homerun. If in 3-4 years the team is falling short IN the playoffs - than at least you have the system in place and franchise to a point it has actually moved forward and can find the next coach (ala let Mike McCarthy be Doug Collins to Caleb Williams).  

You got to get this right and I think McCarthy should ensure you have the stability and process in place to provide Caleb with an environment to grow the next few years into the type of QB he can be.  With Johnson he might be brilliant at X's and O's but I have no idea if he can do the other stuff right and quite frankly I think that is the most important thing the Bears need.  

Crazy cause I don't think McCarthy is an elite coach - but he's a no doubt good coach and he's on the right side of the ball.  

[bmags]

my roller coaster just now:
"haha...cowboys."

"oh s%*# they have the best job and they are now hiring a coach"

[Tony]

Why are we acting like CJ Stroud has risen to Patrick Mahomes/Josh Allen levels? 

Caleb and Stroud both played in 17 games this year. 

Stroud - 3,727 Yards, 233 rushing yards, 20 TD's, 12 INT's

Williams - 3,541 yards, 489 rushing yards, 20 TD's, 6 INT's

I mean, what are we doing here? 

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

my roller coaster just now:
"haha...cowboys."

"oh s%*# they have the best job and they are now hiring a coach"

You think the cowboys are the best job available?  I don’t, I think Jerry Jones over your shoulder is a huge impediment to anyone that steps in there 

[Chisoxfn]

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

my roller coaster just now:
"haha...cowboys."

"oh s%*# they have the best job and they are now hiring a coach"

They aren't the best job - but they are attractive and Jerry will pay. But you also have to deal with Jerry.  But I could see this playing out that Johnson goes to Dallas, McCarthy to Bears.  I actually think its a win for everyone (except the Lions - who loose a really good OC - but they'll be able to find someone good to step in).  

[Kyyle23]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think you are jumping the gun far too soon.  Stroud is one thing, but If you look at both Caleb’s and Jayden’s stats on the season, they are very comparable.  But Caleb did it with a garbage OL and moronic coaching.  Meanwhile, Jayden is in a much better situation.  I wouldn’t be surprised if you swapped both QB’s and put Caleb on the Commanders and Jayden on the Bears, Caleb would look like the stud and Jayden would have struggled.

He has been consistent all year in not liking Williams.  Is what it is

[bmags]

I'm still pretty high on williams. It is crazy to me though that he had the numbers he did - and our offense was 32nd.

Why? His sacks were a big deal, for one. His turnovers were not bad, but being unable to go for short yards hurt the team - and where he was going for constantly keeping us ahead of the chains were our best games.

But the weirdest part of caleb's year was by far his horrendous deep accuracy. The reason why people are gaga over Maye instead of Williams was Maye went after chunk yards and hit it a bunch, Williams was doing a better job short and intermediate.

But the pats oline isn't good, neither was washingtons last year. Washington smartly invested in the interior, but also made an offense for Jayden. Bears decided to push a different route and it was super clunky. I don't think we know a lot yet.

Bears just have a lot of issues related to being the bears. Their GM is horrendous in FA, while others found good starters. Their coaching is terrible. Just have been unable to grind out victories.

But even if Caleb and Jayden had similar numbers, Jayden's teams never punted because he always got them to third and short and then he converted every 4th down. On the other hand, Brian Robinson is good and swift would run backward 10 yards. Great signing.

[bmags]

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You think the cowboys are the best job available?  I don’t, I think Jerry Jones over your shoulder is a huge impediment to anyone that steps in there 

He has been extremely patient with coaches. WIll McClay is excellent at bringing in talent. You have Dak Prescott. You'll get paid a ton.

That's a great job. 

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

They aren't the best job - but they are attractive and Jerry will pay. But you also have to deal with Jerry.  But I could see this playing out that Johnson goes to Dallas, McCarthy to Bears.  I actually think its a win for everyone (except the Lions - who loose a really good OC - but they'll be able to find someone good to step in).  

what is the best job? I don't see why Dallas wouldn't look like Detroit part two to Ben Johnson.

[Kyyle23]

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

He has been extremely patient with coaches. WIll McClay is excellent at bringing in talent. You have Dak Prescott. You'll get paid a ton.

That's a great job. 

Wasn’t McCarthys staff constantly recycled?

[LittleHurtCG]

28 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think you are jumping the gun far too soon.  Stroud is one thing, but If you look at both Caleb’s and Jayden’s stats on the season, they are very comparable.  But Caleb did it with a garbage OL and moronic coaching.  Meanwhile, Jayden is in a much better situation.  I wouldn’t be surprised if you swapped both QB’s and put Caleb on the Commanders and Jayden on the Bears, Caleb would look like the stud and Jayden would have struggled.

Washington has been an absolute dumpster fire for decades now. Last night was their first playoff win since 2005. The idea that Jayden Daniels was put in such a better environment than Caleb is pure cope at this point. The two environments are very similiar. Jayden Daniels has shown that he is a winner. Caleb Willaims has not. This "perfect" situation is never going to be there for Caleb and the guy never should have been taken 1.1 if he cannot overcome some adeversity. 

We will never get to test your hypotheical, but I would argue Bears have 3 more wins this year with Jayden and the Commanders don't make the playoffs at all with Caleb. 

[bmags]

7 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Wasn’t McCarthys staff constantly recycled?

Why isn't some of that McCarthy? He kept Moore from previous staff then fired him. He brough Dan Quinn in, he gets hired out. Doesn't seem that crazy.

Meanwhile Jones kept Jason Garrett on as HC for 10 years despite being terrible. Gave McCarthy a full contract even when others thought he was underachieving.

[SoxAce]

 

 

[SoxAce]

 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Washington has been an absolute dumpster fire for decades now. Last night was their first playoff win since 2005. The idea that Jayden Daniels was put in such a better environment than Caleb is pure cope at this point. The two environments are very similiar. Jayden Daniels has shown that he is a winner. Caleb Willaims has not. This "perfect" situation is never going to be there for Caleb and the guy never should have been taken 1.1 if he cannot overcome some adeversity. 

We will never get to test your hypotheical, but I would argue Bears have 3 more wins this year with Jayden and the Commanders don't make the playoffs at all with Caleb. 

Washington has a better OL than the Bears — True.

Washington has better coaching than the Bears — I don’t see how this can be refuted with the carousel of coaching changes the Bears had this year.

Caleb’s and Jayden’s overall numbers aren’t wildly different — Take a look at them.  I think they might surprise you.

[almagest]

26 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think you are jumping the gun far too soon.  Stroud is one thing, but If you look at both Caleb’s and Jayden’s stats on the season, they are very comparable.  But Caleb did it with a garbage OL and moronic coaching.  Meanwhile, Jayden is in a much better situation.  I wouldn’t be surprised if you swapped both QB’s and put Caleb on the Commanders and Jayden on the Bears, Caleb would look like the stud and Jayden would have struggled.

Caleb has much worse advanced stats and people are really worried about his accuracy. I think these are valid, but I also think advanced stats are WAY more team dependent than they are in baseball, so I don't know how much of this is due to the dumpster fire coaching situation the Bears had.

For example - is Caleb inaccurate because he sucks, or is it one (or more) of the following?

• Footwork wasn't properly tied to routes
• WRs and Caleb not on same page on how routes finished
• Routes/WRs couldn't create separation or were run too close together
• Caleb coached to not create interception opportunities so most deep routes were essentially throwaways
• Effectively zero run game

[Quin]

8 minutes ago, almagest said:

Caleb has much worse advanced stats and people are really worried about his accuracy. I think these are valid, but I also think advanced stats are WAY more team dependent than they are in baseball, so I don't know how much of this is due to the dumpster fire coaching situation the Bears had.

For example - is Caleb inaccurate because he sucks, or is it one (or more) of the following?

• Footwork wasn't properly tied to routes
• WRs and Caleb not on same page on how routes finished
• Routes/WRs couldn't create separation or were run too close together
• Caleb coached to not create interception opportunities so most deep routes were essentially throwaways
• Effectively zero run game

How I feel about this:

 

[almagest]

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

How I feel about this:

 

The Eagles made Swift look good, so I think the issues are more run blocking and scheming than personnel. Jeanty would be awesome but he'd look pedestrian behind this awful line. I'd rather go heavy o and d line this draft then look for an RB in the 3rd/4th. Maybe someone like Cam Skattebo.

[Harry Chappas]

30 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

Washington has been an absolute dumpster fire for decades now. Last night was their first playoff win since 2005. The idea that Jayden Daniels was put in such a better environment than Caleb is pure cope at this point. The two environments are very similiar. Jayden Daniels has shown that he is a winner. Caleb Willaims has not. This "perfect" situation is never going to be there for Caleb and the guy never should have been taken 1.1 if he cannot overcome some adeversity. 

We will never get to test your hypotheical, but I would argue Bears have 3 more wins this year with Jayden and the Commanders don't make the playoffs at all with Caleb. 

The most important thing that could happen to a poorly run franchise happened to Washington.  They got a new ownership group. 

[Rowand44]

2 hours ago, LittleHurtCG said:

The Bears could have had CJ Stroud. The Bears could have had Jayden Daniels. Both dudes are still playing in the final 8 while Caleb Williams and the Bears sit at home. It is clear as day right now that the Bears picked the wrong QB. This Bears rebuild has been an absolute disaster and it is going to take an absolute miracle to turn it around like Wahsington and Houston did. 

Nothing is clear as day after year 1.  Even you using Stroud as an example kind of disproves your own point as he took a massive step backwards for whatever reason this year.  Stroud and/or Daniels absolutely might be better than Caleb going forward but you're just jumping the gun here cause you don't like Caleb.

[Snopek]

35 minutes ago, LittleHurtCG said:

The idea that Jayden Daniels was put in such a better environment than Caleb is pure cope at this point. The two environments are very similiar.

Ah yes, the two very similar environments:

1) The one with the offensive coordinator who is being requested for head coach interviews

2) The one that had three different offensive coordinators throughout the season

[WhiteSox2023]

49 minutes ago, Tony said:

Why are we acting like CJ Stroud has risen to Patrick Mahomes/Josh Allen levels? 

Caleb and Stroud both played in 17 games this year. 

Stroud - 3,727 Yards, 233 rushing yards, 20 TD's, 12 INT's

Williams - 3,541 yards, 489 rushing yards, 20 TD's, 6 INT's

I mean, what are we doing here? 

Well, to be fair, Stroud’s rookie season was amazing.  He appears to have had a bit of a sophomore slump, even though his numbers are still good this year.  But saying that Jayden Daniels is for sure better than Caleb at this point when they both had comparable rookie season numbers is a big assumption.

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, almagest said:

The Eagles made Swift look good, so I think the issues are more run blocking and scheming than personnel. Jeanty would be awesome but he'd look pedestrian behind this awful line. I'd rather go heavy o and d line this draft then look for an RB in the 3rd/4th. Maybe someone like Cam Skattebo.

Oh, you definitely go O-Line and D-Line heavy.

The only way you could justify Jeanty is if the top O-Line are off the board and  they tackle it in free agency. Even then, it'd be a hard, hard sell after the chaos we just watched.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Ah yes, the two very similar environments:

1) The one with the offensive coordinator who is being requested for head coach interviews

2) The one that had three different offensive coordinators throughout the season

Two different OC’s and head coaches.  LOL.