24-25 NFL Thread

[Chisoxfn]

44 minutes ago, bmags said:

I'm still pretty high on williams. It is crazy to me though that he had the numbers he did - and our offense was 32nd.

Why? His sacks were a big deal, for one. His turnovers were not bad, but being unable to go for short yards hurt the team - and where he was going for constantly keeping us ahead of the chains were our best games.

But the weirdest part of caleb's year was by far his horrendous deep accuracy. The reason why people are gaga over Maye instead of Williams was Maye went after chunk yards and hit it a bunch, Williams was doing a better job short and intermediate.

But the pats oline isn't good, neither was washingtons last year. Washington smartly invested in the interior, but also made an offense for Jayden. Bears decided to push a different route and it was super clunky. I don't think we know a lot yet.

Bears just have a lot of issues related to being the bears. Their GM is horrendous in FA, while others found good starters. Their coaching is terrible. Just have been unable to grind out victories.

But even if Caleb and Jayden had similar numbers, Jayden's teams never punted because he always got them to third and short and then he converted every 4th down. On the other hand, Brian Robinson is good and swift would run backward 10 yards. Great signing.

For the record - I still think Caleb is the cream of the crop - but will admit Daniels clearly looks legit too. I am not gaga over Maye or Nix for that matter.  I do think Caleb did a lot well but the fact that the Bears made things so complicated for him on offense I think really prevented him from having the easy throws and things like that which not just take away the read or simplify it, but they help drive more consistent footwork which hugely impacts the deep  ball accuracy, etc. 

Caleb flashed it in droves throughout his college career - and I imagine he will get it back. But he's got to work on stepping up into the pocket and clearly has to work on some of those mechanical things to get them right.  This offseason will be big but he has a ton of experience now to build on too and has a real feel for the differences that exist in the NFL.  

[WhiteSox2023]

15 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

Nothing is clear as day after year 1.  Even you using Stroud as an example kind of disproves your own point as he took a massive step backwards for whatever reason this year.  Stroud and/or Daniels absolutely might be better than Caleb going forward but you're just jumping the gun here cause you don't like Caleb.

I’m pretty sure that @LittleHurtCG was the same poster saying that Fields was better than Caleb and he didn’t want the Bears to draft Caleb at all.  Meanwhile, Fields lost his job to a 36-year old Russell Wilson and the Bears aren’t even going to get a 4th round pick for Fields because he didn’t have enough snaps for the Steelers this season.  He still can’t throw.  6th round pick it is.

Edited 16 hours ago by WhiteSox2023

[Chisoxfn]

31 minutes ago, almagest said:

Caleb has much worse advanced stats and people are really worried about his accuracy. I think these are valid, but I also think advanced stats are WAY more team dependent than they are in baseball, so I don't know how much of this is due to the dumpster fire coaching situation the Bears had.

For example - is Caleb inaccurate because he sucks, or is it one (or more) of the following?

• Footwork wasn't properly tied to routes
• WRs and Caleb not on same page on how routes finished
• Routes/WRs couldn't create separation or were run too close together
• Caleb coached to not create interception opportunities so most deep routes were essentially throwaways
• Effectively zero run game

I think reality is it is all of the above and that compounded to make it worse than it is.  I do think the running game is a major issue.  Swift is okay, but Johnson and Swift was a bottom 10 duo.  That is on the GM - as there were other backs who got paid similar in offseason who were far better.  Poles overrated Johnson (or the Bears offense has way undertilized him).  But that combo WAS NOT good.  And I think Swift is an okay running back but he has to be part of a broader room....Swift by himself is not a top 10 running back.  

[Rowand44]

4 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

For the record - I still think Caleb is the cream of the crop - but will admit Daniels clearly looks legit too. I am not gaga over Maye or Nix for that matter.  I do think Caleb did a lot well but the fact that the Bears made things so complicated for him on offense I think really prevented him from having the easy throws and things like that which not just take away the read or simplify it, but they help drive more consistent footwork which hugely impacts the deep  ball accuracy, etc. 

Caleb flashed it in droves throughout his college career - and I imagine he will get it back. But he's got to work on stepping up into the pocket and clearly has to work on some of those mechanical things to get them right.  This offseason will be big but he has a ton of experience now to build on too and has a real feel for the differences that exist in the NFL.  

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I think we're all wired(myself included) to assume that some of these 1st rd qb's have to be busts that the 4 guys we saw play a significant amount of time this year might actually all be solid to great going forward.  Obviously time will tell there but all 4 sure showed some awesome flashes this year.  

[Chisoxfn]

9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Well, to be fair, Stroud’s rookie season was amazing.  He appears to have had a bit of a sophomore slump, even though his numbers are still good this year.  But saying that Jayden Daniels is for sure better than Caleb at this point when they both had comparable rookie season numbers is a big assumption.

Caleb and Stroud's numbers are actually amazingly similar.  In fairness, Caleb benefited with some garbage time points.  

[bmags]

I've said it before but I think the big thing diff' about this class was the throwing reps. But talent will separate it eventually

[Chisoxfn]

6 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I think we're all wired(myself included) to assume that some of these 1st rd qb's have to be busts that the 4 guys we saw play a significant amount of time this year might actually all be solid to great going forward.  Obviously time will tell there but all 4 sure showed some awesome flashes this year.  

I agree - I think in general this was a really really historically strong QB class. For example - I think Bo Nix will have a long career, but I don't think he is a top 10 QB.  Jayden Daniels - I think he's been schemed up, but he has real talent, can easily be a top 10 QB in this league.  Maye also has flashed talent - but I saw nothing that screamed he is way better than Caleb (who also flashed top 10 talent).  Penix/McCarthy we didn't see a ton - but I loved them coming out of college and JJ sitting given his in-exeperience (I know it was an injury that drove it) is going to be huge for his long-term development (to the positive).    

[SoCalChiSox]

12 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I think we're all wired(myself included) to assume that some of these 1st rd qb's have to be busts that the 4 guys we saw play a significant amount of time this year might actually all be solid to great going forward.  Obviously time will tell there but all 4 sure showed some awesome flashes this year.  

Nix had 29 TDs to 12 INTs, 66% completion percentage and got exponentially better over the course of the season. 

People can dog him if they like but I'm personally very happy that he is my teams QB. 

Edited 16 hours ago by SoCalChiSox

[Kyyle23]

29 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Two different OC’s and head coaches.  LOL.

No, he had three OCs.  Waldron- brown- and when brown was elevated to HC someone else was named OC but I have chosen to not remember him 

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

No, he had three OCs.  Waldron- brown- and when brown was elevated to HC someone else was named OC but I have chosen to not remember him 

the WR coach who everytime I try to remember his name I pull "Ashton Jeanty"

[Kyyle23]

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

the WR coach who everytime I try to remember his name I pull "Ashton Jeanty"

Any other season I would know.  This season my Cutler “DONT CARE” meter is broken because it’s been in the red since October 

[T R U]

1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Nix had 29 TDs to 12 INTs, 66% completion percentage and got exponentially better over the course of the season. 

People can dog him if they like but I'm personally very happy that he is my teams QB. 

I laughed when Denver took Nix at 12 overall, like WTF are you doing. Way wrong on that one. 

I will be taking either Caleb Williams or Bo Nix late in fantasy drafts next season, I think both are going to take another step forward next year provided the Bears do something about the OLine and hire the right coach.

[Chisoxfn]

21 minutes ago, T R U said:

I laughed when Denver took Nix at 12 overall, like WTF are you doing. Way wrong on that one. 

I will be taking either Caleb Williams or Bo Nix late in fantasy drafts next season, I think both are going to take another step forward next year provided the Bears do something about the OLine and hire the right coach.

I agree with you - I didn't see Nix doing what he did. I still think there is a chance he becomes the Mac Jones of this draft. But he has had an outstanding season.  He may have a great coach and all that to help him, but he's done it too and played with a ton of poise.  Yeah he fell short but Denver's turnaround was as impressive, if not more impressive than Washington's.  

[T R U]

54 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

I agree with you - I didn't see Nix doing what he did. I still think there is a chance he becomes the Mac Jones of this draft. But he has had an outstanding season.  He may have a great coach and all that to help him, but he's done it too and played with a ton of poise.  Yeah he fell short but Denver's turnaround was as impressive, if not more impressive than Washington's.  

For sure, the year 1 of Sean Payton in Denver looked like a disaster to start but they really turned around this year and Bo Nix was great for a rookie. 

[caulfield12]

None of the QBs drafted high will  out produce even Nix unless Cam Ward goes to a team with some weapons like the NYG.

Edited 11 hours ago by caulfield12

[Quin]

12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

None of the QBs drafted high will even out produce even Nix unless Cam Ward goes to a team with some weapons like the NYG.

Sanders to the Browns:

 

[Chisoxfn]

26 minutes ago, T R U said:

For sure, the year 1 of Sean Payton in Denver looked like a disaster to start but they really turned around this year and Bo Nix was great for a rookie. 

Shows you how much really good coaching matters though. Payton had the credible to know what would work, what didn't, but he also had the ability to make the real changes needed no matter the heat. I think people underestimate when you inherit places that have been ran down in terms of legitimate infastructure and expectations and how much it takes to change it. 

New first time coaches just don't have that sort of credibility and ability unless you are really really unique.  Its why I'm so big on hiring McCarthy or Tomlin (if you trade him) or Caroll if I'm the Bears. They have been broke for so long that getting one of those guys with that sort of credibility and proven ability to implement foundational systems and process and buy-in across the board is so critical (and who have enough swagger to be able to make those blow-back decisions and not sweat it; a rookie coach just can't do some of those things to the same level).  

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, Rowand44 said:

Nothing is clear as day after year 1.  Even you using Stroud as an example kind of disproves your own point as he took a massive step backwards for whatever reason this year.  Stroud and/or Daniels absolutely might be better than Caleb going forward but you're just jumping the gun here cause you don't like Caleb.

For those outside of Houston - a ton of Stroud’s issues this year have been under pressure.

CJ Stroud was 25th in the NFL this year in passer rating under pressure. 24th was Caleb Williams.

CJ Stroud was #1 in the NFL in total pressures applied to him this year, a couple guys like Watson and Brissett had pressure more often but in short stints.

The QB who faced the second most total pressures? Caleb Williams.

In Houston, it wasn’t just the pressures themselves, but expecting pressures also limited their attempts for deep balls or play action, so it made their offense run worse as a whole. You saw on Saturday what Stroud can do when he’s protected, that was their second most yards all years.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

For those outside of Houston - a ton of Stroud’s issues this year have been under pressure.

CJ Stroud was 25th in the NFL this year in passer rating under pressure. 24th was Caleb Williams.

CJ Stroud was #1 in the NFL in total pressures applied to him this year, a couple guys like Watson and Brissett had pressure more often but in short stints.

The QB who faced the second most total pressures? Caleb Williams.

In Houston, it wasn’t just the pressures themselves, but expecting pressures also limited their attempts for deep balls or play action, so it made their offense run worse as a whole. You saw on Saturday what Stroud can do when he’s protected, that was their second most yards all years.

Without their #2 and #3 receivers to boot.

In another sense, this year was all about the resurgence of RBs like Mixon Barkley and Jacobs to name just a few.

Edited 11 hours ago by caulfield12

[bmags]

Truth be told I think this is a great year to hire a coach. I’m not super anti McCarthy or Carroll.

I really need football, so I hope they get this right…but this “explore every nook” HC search as if they are an org like the packers that will uncover a McCarthy or lafleur after bad years…I have low expectations I guess.

So I guess cards on the table, I still only really want Johnson.

Id be ok with Carroll and McCarthy (I know, but I would)

I’d be ok enough with Monken, Brady. 
Id be happy with Kliff (doesn’t sound like that’s a thing tho).

but it really feels like it’ll be like Matt Campbell or like that northwestern coach or some s%*#

[champagne030]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

Truth be told I think this is a great year to hire a coach. I’m not super anti McCarthy or Carroll.

I really need football, so I hope they get this right…but this “explore every nook” HC search as if they are an org like the packers that will uncover a McCarthy or lafleur after bad years…I have low expectations I guess.

So I guess cards on the table, I still only really want Johnson.

Id be ok with Carroll and McCarthy (I know, but I would)

I’d be ok enough with Monken, Brady. 
Id be happy with Kliff (doesn’t sound like that’s a thing tho).

but it really feels like it’ll be like Matt Campbell or like that northwestern coach or some s%*#

Pat Fitzgerald seems about perfect for the Bears.

[Tony]

This game hopefully takes Flores out of consideration… 

[Balta1701]

30 minutes ago, Tony said:

This game hopefully takes Flores out of consideration… 

For the Bears or Vikings?

[chw42]

Mike McCarthy now at +200 odds for becoming the next Bears HC. Johnson is still the favorite though. 

[chw42]

8 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

For the record - I still think Caleb is the cream of the crop - but will admit Daniels clearly looks legit too. I am not gaga over Maye or Nix for that matter.  I do think Caleb did a lot well but the fact that the Bears made things so complicated for him on offense I think really prevented him from having the easy throws and things like that which not just take away the read or simplify it, but they help drive more consistent footwork which hugely impacts the deep  ball accuracy, etc. 

Caleb flashed it in droves throughout his college career - and I imagine he will get it back. But he's got to work on stepping up into the pocket and clearly has to work on some of those mechanical things to get them right.  This offseason will be big but he has a ton of experience now to build on too and has a real feel for the differences that exist in the NFL.  

The problem is that they didn't try to ease him into the NFL at all. Seems like they just threw everything at him thinking he would just get it because he was viewed as this once in a generation prospect. 

It's fine to do that to him if you're going to let him play in the system for a few years. There's nothing wrong with learning from adversity. There is a problem with making him learn through adversity and then have him re-learn a brand new offense again in year 2. That part is on Poles and the problem in general with keeping a coach who was close to being on the hotseat while drafting a brand new QB.