Say What You Want Bout Mariotti...

[greg775]

But Mariotti wrote a great great column on Maggs.

It is f***ing ridiculous we are getting rid of Maggs.

It is a joke if we rid ourselves of Maggs.

I would rather have our team move than not have Maggs

around next year.

It just reminds me of everything that is wrong with baseball.

 

Mariotti's column has all the right arguments. Let Maggs go

at 34 or 35 if we must, not NOW!!

 

Sell the team, Mr. Reinsdork. Please please please

sell the team.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

could you possilbly post a link to that column please?

[greg775]

sorry bout that.

It's suntimes.com and under the mariotti mug.

it's a good story in my opin.

[SoxFanForever]

Just wait a few days and he will write an article ripping on the Sox and praising the benevolent Jim Hendry and the great Cubs. The guy switches his opinion more than a weather vane changes direction. He can be right sometimes....but you know the old adage,"Even a broken clock is right twice a day:.

[YASNY]

Just wait a few days and he will write an article ripping on the Sox and praising the benevolent Jim Hendry and the great Cubs.  The guy switches his opinion more than a weather vane changes direction.  He can be right sometimes....but you know the old adage,"Even a broken clock is right twice a day:.

If the Sox get rid of Maggs, and even the fact that they are thinking about it, they deserve to have many articles written that rips them to shreds.

[southsider2k5]

Kotex-Boy will always be a piece of s***.

[IlliniBob72]

If the Sox get rid of Maggs, and even the fact that they are thinking about it, they deserve to have many articles written that rips them to shreds.

They've got a lot of people to pay and only so much money to pay them with. If they can get good return for a guy that is set to make over 1/5th of their projected payroll, they'd have to listen, IMO. That is just the climate of baseball today. Hell, if ARod or Manny Ramirez can be shopped, surely Magglio can be.

[Texsox]

I've always liked Marriotti, but hell I like corg also.

 

There are a few players I would like to see signed to career contracts

Maggs

Lee

Buerhle

 

Next level

Crede

Colon

E-Lo

 

After those guys, I think parts are almost interchangable.

[elrockinMT]

If the Sox get rid of Maggs, and even the fact that they are thinking about it, they deserve to have many articles written that rips them to shreds.

I agree. Last year was the statement that we were going for it all and we came close. This year it's about tearing the team apart. What's up with that? We don't need to rebuild we need to just fill in some spots and go for it all.

[BrandoFan]

I've always liked Marriotti, but hell I like corg also.

 

Me, on the other hand? Never much liked Mariotti or Corg. But I digress.

 

Lee

 

Mediocre defense. Fluke 2003 aside, average speed, will slow down as he ages. A penny over 6-7 Mill a year is a crime. Too dumb to be a star. Time will tell. Not even close to being untouchable.

Maggs

 

A 30yo with unspectacular speed/defense and without a single 1000 OPS season? Against awful ALCental pitching? Yeah, definately 14-15 Mill a year material...especially on a team with a sub-60 mill payroll ceiling.

 

Buerhl

 

AL hitters are solving Burhle more and more with each passing year, he lives and dies with his cutter as his curveball sucks and slider mediocre.....Considering his 2003 production and Cardinalgate, pay him 6 mill for the next 2 years and LET HIM GO. The dimwit's not worth more than 4-5 per.

 

Crede

 

Until he learns not to swing at balls in the dirt and stops getting eaten up alive on every hard ball down the line, he is nothing but a talented younger. Stop hyping everything and everybody.

 

Colon

 

What has this fat slob done in 2003 (or career for that matter) to warrant 12-13 Mill a year deal? Is throwing almost 80% fastballs (god forbid his velocity naturally declines as he ages!) and not being able to communicate with a English-speaking pitching coach/manager worht that money? My God.

 

E-Lo

 

As long as he makes what he makes, fine. If he has another excellent year in 2004 and proves he can be domiant in the playoffs, giving 6-7 Mill a year would be just fine with me.

 

What about Frank? The last thing we need is for him to leave and wear another hat to Cooperstown. As long as the money is reasonable (5-6 mill) and he feels confident, I'd rather see him on the South Side in the next 2, 3 years than Colon or Ordonez. This organnization hasn't had a plyer of his magnitude in 80 years.

[Chisoxfn]

If its a deal that could make this team better then I have no problem trading Maggs. For example Soriano and Johnson would be unbelievable (Not saying it will happen). But a deal like that is not only smart financially, but to me smart talent wise. Soriano and Maggs are similar players production wise and I think Soriano has a higher ceiling but he does have his flaws too and well I love Nick Johnson.

[BrandoFan]

I amazing you even come back to this site. Good Lord.

How so?

[BrandoFan]

There wasnt a positive thing said in that post, regarding the entire core of this team.

And?

[BrandoFan]

So then why stick up Brando?

Huh?

[BrandoFan]

lol, then why stick around

 

 

Soxtalk is heaven.

 

I think its such bulls*** Brando that you can call C.Lee's 2003 season a fluke

 

I called his 17 steals in 19 attempts a fluke. Not his offense.

 

And what about his offense?

 

How many 850 OPS seasons does he have under his belt in the last 5 years? How many 100-RBI seasons for that matter?

 

At 3-4 mill? Fine. 6-7 mill in 2004? Not wild about it, but OK.. 8-10 mill he'll ask after arbitration is over? No, thanks.

 

I used to consider him the Next Manny Ramirez, but his hitting IQ is just not there.

[Yossarian]

But Mariotti wrote a great great column on Maggs.

It is f***ing ridiculous we are getting rid of Maggs.

It is a joke if we rid ourselves of Maggs.

I would rather have our team move than not have Maggs

around next year.

It just reminds me of everything that is wrong with baseball.

 

Mariotti's column has all the right arguments. Let Maggs go

at 34 or 35 if we must, not NOW!!

 

Sell the team, Mr. Reinsdork. Please please please

sell the team.

I agree, I agree a thousand times. He hit the nail on the head. If the Sox trade Maggs for a couple of warm six packs like I think they are then I'm going to have to think things over. I've been rooting for the Sox longer than most of you have been alive, but I am ever so tired of this owner and the flunkies he hires to do his bidding.

[Yossarian]

Kotex-Boy will always be a piece of s***.

That may be so, but I read the article and I know its a sin to agree with anything he writes on a WS message board but in this case he is totally right. If this franchise is going to do what I think they are going to do then as far as I'm concerned they might as well contract themselves or move out of town.

[Yossarian]

Since I'm on a roll here let me say that baseball was so much fun before sabremetrics came along. Yeah, I look at all the stats, the new and the old but I think a little proportion is in order. Maggs is #66 all time in OPS. That's out of eveyone who ever played MLB. He ranks above HOFers Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Eddie Matthews and Harmon Killebrew. His lifetime fielding average is above average for his position and his range factor is average. He is not a liability in any way. If he has five more years commenserate with the last five his stats will be close to the HOF category. Maggs is the type of player to keep, to build a team around. The Cubs are getting ready to lock up Chicago for keeps. The White Sox look like they are getting ready to fold up like an old accordiion. And I'm getting quite angry. There are limits to loyalty, even White Sox loyalty. I agree with Greg. It is time for Reinsdorf and his group to go. The sooner the better.

[BrandoFan]

I've been rooting for the Sox longer than most of you have been alive,

 

If I may say so, you have a very cool screen-name. Catchy

 

 

Since I'm on a roll here let me say that baseball was so much fun before sabremetrics came along

 

Sadly that perspective is denied to me.

 

What I do know is that when I first started following the game, I was stunned that a sport can be so quickly reduced and quantified-- in soccer, a game I grew up on, a player can go the entire season with only a couple of goals and still be absolutely indispensible to his team, so much of his value concentrated in intangibles and grunt skills; most soccer experts grade performance on the scale of 10, much like gymnastics and not just some objective stats.....So there I was at first wondering how baseball fans can sum up a player's value/essence by just one number, often without even ever seeing the player play. But I do see the relative value of Sabermetrics now.

 

He ranks above HOFers Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Eddie Matthews and Harmon Killebrew.

 

Compare Maggs to his contemporaries and not to hitters who played in era of less diluted pitcher talent pool, bigger parks, less developed nutrition and workout regiment, lack of steroids, bigger strike zone and a baseball that wasn't juiced.

 

OPS+ in other words.

 

Maggs is the type of player to keep, to build a team around

 

How you can justify paying 27% of team's payroll to a career 890 OPS hitter with limited off-field appeal I will never know.

[Yossarian]

That's a big problem I have with the new stats. Baseball too is a game of intangibles and they don't always show up nicely in sabremetrics.

[greg775]

Great point about baseball intangibles!

I had started to waver about Maggs 'cause of some of the posts in here

pointing out his statistical flaws. I respect most all of you and love the sabermetrical

posts.

 

But then I read Mariott's nice colm and he in a couple sentences described what Maggs

truly is ....

 

A GREAT f***ING BALLPLAYER!!!!!

[witesoxfan]

You want intangible for Maggs?

 

He's a guy that does NOT play all-out, plain and simple. I don't remember the last time I saw him beat out a ground ball. I don't think I ever have. Add to that that he is not a leader-type ballplayer, and that he does not seem to be a very marketable kind of guy, and you understand part of the intangibles that I see.

 

Maggs is worth $8 mill a year, tops. Not $14-$15 mill.

[Pastime]

I don't think Maggs is worth 14 million a year either.

 

But I can't help but think about something. If Maggs hopped after every home run, ran out to right field at full speed, made stupid hand gestures in the dugout, constantly talked to reporters and made jokes all the time, and starred in Pepsi and McDonalds commercials, would we view his worth differently?

 

In other words, Maggs isn't a "moth" like Shammy Sosa - always looking for the lights and cameras. If Maggs was more outgoing, vocal, and "fun," would we view him differently? Would we think he was worth 14 million if he had Shammy's personality?

 

[BrandoFan]

. I don't remember the last time I saw him beat out a ground ball

 

While I don't think he was dogging it ala Belle or Manny, it didn't seem to bust his ass nearly as much. I still remember the final game of the Wriggley series in which Sox were leading 1-0 in the 3rd inn and Zambrano began to unravel. It was 1st and 2 and 1 out and Maggs had a 3-1 count. Not only does he swing at ball four low and inside, but he gets outs of the box almost walking and at no point does he go all out on the grounder itself. End result? It was a tough chopper play at third and the throw came just as Maggs was crossing the bag, he beat it by a third of a step or it was a tie wortst-case scenario. Tie goes to the runner, right? Well, not when you play in Wriggely and Cubs are on defense. Cocksoucker ump called the runner out. Replay showed him wrong....The point is not that ump

semi-blew the call, but that Maggs lackadaisical attitude put him in a position where ump even had to come into play. If he busts his ass, he is safe by a step. Bases loaded, only 1 out. We get at least a run, maybe even chase Zambrano getting into weak bullpen, giving then masterful Colon some room for error and probably end up winning the game (which was 1-0 untl the 8th)....Cubs might not get in the playoffs and we might. And this is only one example from a 162-game season. He also didn't dive for balls or run into walls on defense. He was good but nothing special.

 

And yes, I also agree that we as fans are trying to paint Maggs as worse than he really is in order to prepare ourselves for and justify his departure. But you must agree that Maggs certainly helped us by having a VERY unspectacular season in all respects.

[witesoxfan]

I don't think Maggs is worth 14 million a year either. 

 

But I can't help but think about something.  If Maggs hopped after every home run, ran out to right field at full speed, made stupid hand gestures in the dugout, constantly talked to reporters and made jokes all the time, and starred in Pepsi and McDonalds commercials, would we view his worth differently? 

 

In other words, Maggs isn't a "moth" like Shammy Sosa - always looking for the lights and cameras.  If Maggs was more outgoing, vocal, and "fun," would we view him differently? Would we think he was worth 14 million if he had Shammy's personality? 

 

That depends. If he had SOME of SamME's personality(like being able to get on TV and becoming a very marketable player), sure, I'd like that. Now if he corked his bats, sprinted out to RF, hopped after every long fly ball, blew kisses to his mom, and what not else just to get on TV, no, I would not like that.