Why everyone so high on

[The Beast]

Rauch?

Ginter?

Wylie?-Thats the only one I like.

Malone?

Rauch as a top prospect in 2004 trades? Please. The guy hasn't returned to his old form at all. To be honest, the White Sox should be asking to get guys for the future.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Rauch and Malone need one more year before they can be given up on.

[The Beast]

Rauch and Malone need one more year before they can be given up on.

Lets hope so, cause whenever I see these threads popup with Rauch or Malone or Ginter in the 5th spot it makes me nervous.

Emencio Pacheo needs more seasoning at AAA...no way in hell I wanna see any minor leaguers to be brought up this quickly.

[CubsSuck1]

I've almost given up on rauch, he hasn't really impressed me in a long time. Hopefully he can rebound, but i really can't see it happen, unless something drastic occurs.

[The Beast]

As will I. I wonder what type of prospect level he, ginter, wylie and malone would be if he were on a team like the yanks

[JoshPR]

I've almost given up on rauch, he hasn't really impressed me in a long time. Hopefully he can rebound, but i really can't see it happen, unless something drastic occurs.

Rauch pitched really well in the second half last season. Remember he's not far removed from surgery

[YASNY]

I've almost given up on rauch, he hasn't really impressed me in a long time. Hopefully he can rebound, but i really can't see it happen, unless something drastic occurs.

Something drastic will occur. Rauch will attend spring training healkthy and will win that 5th starter spot.

[southsider2k5]

Rauch?

Ginter?

Wylie?-Thats the only one I like.

Malone?

Rauch as a top prospect in 2004 trades? Please. The guy hasn't returned to his old form at all. To be honest, the White Sox should be asking to get guys for the future.

Because some of us realize that pitching takes the longest to mature. You don't give up on pitching that quickly. Need I remind you of a man named Kip Wells? Now go crawl back away...

[Rex Hudler]

Something drastic will occur.  Rauch will attend spring training healkthy and will win that 5th starter spot.

I'm not sold on Rauch, healthy or not.

[1549]

Rauch?

Ginter?

Wylie?-Thats the only one I like.

Malone?

Rauch as a top prospect in 2004 trades? Please. The guy hasn't returned to his old form at all. To be honest, the White Sox should be asking to get guys for the future.

In my opinion you like the only guy on their that the jury is out on. Wylie is a AAAA long reliever. He is decent in triple-A but has no business being anything more than a punch dumby in blow out games at the major league level.

 

Rauch, has had his share of injury problems, but when he is healthy he can contribute, and I think he can bring something to this team as a fifth starter.

 

Ginter, has been an effective reliever at triple-A, in 2000 he was a solid starter but he has no stamina what-so-ever in that role, he has been a reliever ever since. I think he will be a solid right handed reliever for the sox within the next couple of years.

 

Malone, is still very young, so don't say he is washed up. He has battled injuries the last two years. If he picks up a change-up you will see him starting games at the Cell in the future, if not then you will see him as a lefty reliever at the cell. The fact is the guy has talent, he just needs to stay healthy.

 

I don't think these guys have much trade value right now, but all can contribute (except wylie) at the major league level.

[The Beast]

In my opinion you like the only guy on their that the jury is out on.  Wylie is a AAAA long reliever.  He is decent in triple-A but has no business being anything more than a punch dumby in blow out games at the major league level. 

 

Rauch, has had his share of injury problems, but when he is healthy he can contribute, and I think he can bring something to this team as a fifth starter.

 

Ginter, has been an effective reliever at triple-A, in 2000 he was a solid starter but he has no stamina what-so-ever in that role, he has been a reliever ever since.  I think he will be a solid right handed reliever for the sox within the next couple of years.

 

Malone, is still very young, so don't say he is washed up.  He has battled injuries the last two years.  If he picks up a change-up you will see him starting games at the Cell in the future, if not then you will see him as a lefty reliever at the cell.  The fact is the guy has talent, he just needs to stay healthy.

 

I don't think these guys have much trade value right now, but all can contribute (except wylie) at the major league level.

I'm sold on Wylie to be a long reliever, as I believe he could help us. Honestly, from what I hear from scouting reports, this guy is the s***.

[1549]

I'm sold on Wylie to be a long reliever, as I believe he could help us. Honestly, from what I hear from scouting reports, this guy is the s***.

I may be wrong, but I see him more as s*** than 'the' s*** as far as major league potential goes.

 

Plus you can't put Ginter down and then call Wylie 'the s***'.

 

Here is a break down:

2003

 

Wylie (26 soon to be 27) - Double-A birmingham

 

W L ERA IP BB K

Mitchell Wylie 3 5 4.40 57.1 17 42

 

Ginter (25 soon to be 26) - Triple-A charlotte

 

W L ERA IP BB K

Matt Ginter 3 5 3.03 68.1 22 52

 

I can't remember Ginter ever getting injured either, unlike Wylie who I believe missed the 2002 season (I could be wrong on that though).

[whitesox61382]

"I'm sold on Wylie to be a long reliever, as I believe he could help us. Honestly, from what I hear from scouting reports, this guy is the s***."

 

What scouting reports are you reading? The guy has no stuff, he is a 26 year old junkball pitcher, with poor numbers in a great pitchers park, who has little or no chance to be in the majors. Mark my words, Wylie is nothing more then a career minor leaguer. This is a make or break year for both Rauch and Ginter. I think at least one of them will be on the major league roster to start the year. I have always been a critic of Malone because he has had one good season sandwiched between a couple of poor seasons. However, his stuff from the left side is very good, he was injuried some the last couple of years, and he finished the year very strong. Next year will tell us a lot about Malone's future, but the jury is still out on him. None of the guys you mention will be front of the rotation starter, baring a miracle, but they could turn into decent major leaguers. Be patient, and read a creditible scouting report next time.

[elrockinMT]

I think that Jon Rausch has the potential to make it in 2004. As has been pointed out the guy was battling back from an injury, which might take up to 2 years to heal. He showed real promise in the 2nd half last year and in my opinion shoud have been brought up rather than Panaigua who had shown nothing at the AAA level whereas Jon had performed well. I think our problem has been to give up too quickly on our young pitching prospects after all remember Wells and Fogg. I wonder how many are screwed up some from the days of Nardi Contreras?

[Chisoxfn]

Wylie had some stuff pre-surgery a few years ago, but right now he isn't much of a prospect. Ginter has much better stuff and I still believe Ginter becomes a sucessful reliever at some point, the question is with the Sox or with another team.

 

As far as Rauch he's got a great curve and the question is whether he can get his slider to the point it was before the surgery, if he can do that and mix in his improving changeup and fastball, which would then be sneaky quick, then he will be sucessful. If he can't, then he'll be a mediocre player but still a big leaguer, most likely with another organization.

 

This is definately his last year in the minors with the Sox. The Sox can't call him up unless they think he's gonna stick cause if I recall he's out of options.

[Rex Hudler]

"I'm sold on Wylie to be a long reliever, as I believe he could help us. Honestly, from what I hear from scouting reports, this guy is the s***."

 

What scouting reports are you reading? The guy has no stuff, he is a 26 year old junkball pitcher, with poor numbers in a great pitchers park, who has little or no chance to be in the majors. Mark my words, Wylie is nothing more then a career minor leaguer. This is a make or break year for both Rauch and Ginter. I think at least one of them will be on the major league roster to start the year. I have always been a critic of Malone because he has had one good season sandwiched between a couple of poor seasons. However, his stuff from the left side is very good, he was injuried some the last couple of years, and he finished the year very strong. Next year will tell us a lot about Malone's future, but the jury is still out on him. None of the guys you mention will be front of the rotation starter, baring a miracle, but they could turn into decent major leaguers. Be patient, and read a creditible scouting report next time.

And what scouting reports have you read??

 

Wylie is marginal, I'll give you that. However, he throws low 90's and IS NOT a "junkballer". Keep in mind, the guy won 15 games in AA in 2001. He struggled a bit in 2002 in Charlotte (he was not terrible) before finding out he was injured and missed most of that season.

 

2003 was his rehab year and the Sox brought him along slowly to build up arm strength and to make sure not to overtax the arm after surgery.

 

For a guy that started in the bullpen and moved into a starting role late (while still on pitch counts) he was solid. He gave up less hits than IP (53/57.1) and had a strikeout:walk ratio of 2.47:1 (42/17).

 

The bottom line with Wylie is he has a chance. My guess, IF he does make it that it would be as a Glover type, a long reliever that has a 2-4 year life in the Bigs. His age and the injury are certainly working against him, however he does have better stuff than a "junkballer" yet I certainly wouldn't call it "the s***" either.

[whitesox61382]

"Keep in mind, the guy won 15 games in AA in 2001."

 

He also had a 4.21 ERA in a great pitchers park, not to mention a 1.33 WHIP and 13 HR's in 141 IP(which is pretty good unless you pitcher in a huge ball park). How come you don't mention that? Its easy to mention things that will help your arguement, but the true test is to look at things both ways. His numbers over his minor league career have been very marginal and don't suggest that he will amount to anything. Here are his ERA's over the last couple of years:

 

4.34 in 2000 at high A ball

4.21 in 2001 at AA

4.76 in 2002 at AAA

4.40 in 2003 at AA

 

Does that look like a future major league pitcher? Factor in that he is injury prone and going to be 27 next year, and you have yourself a career minor leaguer whether you like it or not Rex.

 

Come on Rex, pull your head out of your ass and open your eyes to reality. For the record I have a subscription to BA among many others. I follow the minors religious(that also means going to a few games every year). I will summize a scouting report from a credible scouting report in regards to his stuff: Wylie is consistantly between 86-88 with his fastball with some movement and good control, and will top out in the low 90's. He doesn't have one breaking breaking ball that is above average, but can throw them for strikes, which makes them effective. Last time I checked BA they had a similar scouting report on him. He doesn't have one very good pitch and has to rely on pin point control to get by. That is the description of a junkball pitcher. Sorry Rex, but in this case your pie-in-the-sky beliefs don't hold water. Please don't think that you are the only one that knows something about the minors.

[BrandoFan]

I can't believe you guys are fighting over Mitch f***ING Wylie. What's next? Andy Gonzalez? LMAO!

 

Rauch

Pacheco

Cotts

Honel

 

are the only ones worth talking about at this point. That other kid from high-A ball and maybe Felix Diaz if he stays healthy might suprise people, but I doubt. Ok, Yofu as long reliever. But that's about it.

[Rex Hudler]

"Keep in mind, the guy won 15 games in AA in 2001."

 

He also had a 4.21 ERA in a great pitchers park, not to mention a 1.33 WHIP and 13 HR's in 141 IP(which is pretty good unless you pitcher in a huge ball park). How come you don't mention that? Its easy to mention things that will help your arguement, but the true test is to look at things both ways. His numbers over his minor league career have been very marginal and don't suggest that he will amount to anything. Here are his ERA's over the last couple of years:

 

4.34 in 2000 at high A ball

4.21 in 2001 at AA

4.76 in 2002 at AAA

4.40 in 2003 at AA

 

Does that look like a future major league pitcher? Factor in that he is injury prone and going to be 27 next year, and you have yourself a career minor leaguer whether you like it or not Rex.

 

Come on Rex, pull your head out of your ass and open your eyes to reality. For the record I have a subscription to BA among many others. I follow the minors religious(that also means going to a few games every year). I will summize a scouting report from a credible scouting report in regards to his stuff: Wylie is consistantly between 86-88 with his fastball with some movement and good control, and will top out in the low 90's. He doesn't have one breaking breaking ball that is above average, but can throw them for strikes, which makes them effective. Last time I checked BA they had a similar scouting report on him.  He doesn't have one very good pitch and has to rely on pin point control to get by. That is the description of a junkball pitcher. Sorry Rex, but in this case your pie-in-the-sky beliefs don't hold water. Please don't think that you are the only one that knows something about the minors.

You read your little magazines and I will watch reality. He was consistently in the low 90's this year after his first few appearances. Remember all those "scouting reports" that had Royce Ring throwing in the mid-90's?? Ring rarely ever reached 90 this year, let alone broke it. He was consistently throwing 87-88, yet BA, Sickels and everyone else who never actually watched him continued to spout off "mid-90's" and "blazing fastball". Can't always trust what you read.

 

If you want to dissect Wylie's 2001 4.21 ERA in Birmingham, then why don't you look further.

 

If you did, you might have found that ecluding two terrible starts against Carolina his numbers were:

 

GS - 22

H/IP - 120/134.2

ERA - 3.34

Whip - 1.20

 

I would much rather look at his numbers over 22 starts than two bad days against one team. They are much more representative of what his season was like, but you didn't go that far, did you?

 

The bottom line is Wylie is still marginal in terms of making it, but he does have a chance. To write a guy that is coming off an injury based on incorrect scouting reports, while acting like you are an authority is assinine. Go out and watch a few games and see a player before you act like you are an authority on him. You might be surprised! You might actually find my head IS out of my ass and I do know a thing or two.

[Chisoxfn]

Another example of the magazines way off is Foppert. They constantly said 99 MPH way up there, and he's between 88-92.

[Rex Hudler]

And before you get too far into your research to try and prove me wrong, tell me you aren't trying to evaluate a guy based on the numbers you gave.

 

4.76 in 2002 at AAA

4.40 in 2003 at AA

 

The 4.76 was in 6 games before he was hurt and had to have surgery. The 4.40 ERA was in his rehab year where he started in the bullpen working two innings and worked up to starting. His whip was 1.22 which is respectable. Then again, I think I already mentioned all of this before.

[1549]

Another example of the magazines way off is Foppert.  They constantly said 99 MPH way up there, and he's between 88-92.

Well, Fopperts bad elbow may have had something to do with it. Just guessing.

[1549]

I can't believe you guys are fighting over Mitch f***ING Wylie.  What's next?  Andy Gonzalez?  LMAO!

 

Rauch

Pacheco

Cotts

Honel

 

are the only ones worth talking about at this point.  That other kid from high-A ball and maybe Felix Diaz if he stays healthy might suprise people, but I doubt. Ok, Yofu as long reliever. But that's about it.

Personally, I don't think any of the starters in our rotation our showing top of the rotation type dominance.

 

Our relievers our more exciting to me.

 

Ginter

Munoz

Diaz (I think he will end up a reliever)

Yofu

Meaux

 

Are all guys that seem to have good major league potential to me.

[BrandoFan]

If you did, you might have found that excluding two terrible starts against Carolina his numbers were:

 

GS - 22

H/IP - 120/134.2

ERA - 3.34

Whip - 1.20

 

 

What gives you the right to "exclude" ANYTHING?

 

If you exclude any of Rauch's 5 terrible starts in AAA, his ERA is 2.00...

[whitesox61382]

"He was consistently in the low 90's this year after his first few appearances. Remember all those "scouting reports" that had Royce Ring throwing in the mid-90's?? Ring rarely ever reached 90 this year, let alone broke it. He was consistently throwing 87-88, yet BA, Sickels and everyone else who never actually watched him continued to spout off "mid-90's" and "blazing fastball". Can't always trust what you read."

 

Yes, but in 99% of these cases the scouting report OVERESTIMATES the velocity of a pitcher not underestimates it. BA says that his velocity is also in the upper-80's, and I will take their word(as well as a couple of other credible scouting reports) over yours, since they get paid to scout talent.

 

"If you did, you might have found that ecluding two terrible starts against Carolina his numbers were:"

 

I absolutely hate when people do this. Why don't we just take away the 2 worst starts for every pitcher and then compare ERA's? The only time people say s*** like this is when the stats are arguing against them and they are trying to grasp at straws to make an arguement that supports their believes. ERA measures the good and the bad equally, so taking away his 2 worst starts proves nothing and is a poor attempt on your behalf. You are going to have to do better then that to play with the big boys.

 

"I would much rather look at his numbers over 22 starts than two bad days against one team. They are much more representative of what his season was like, but you didn't go that far, did you?"

 

Because that is the most worthless thing you can do. You can't take away a couple of starts and make a comparison. What would you do if I took away his 2 best starts and showed that when you do that his ERA is in the upper-4's? How is that any better/worse of an indicator then taking away his 2 worst starts. His ERA was 4.21 in a great pitchers park and he has failed to improve since then. You can continue to make weak arguements to support your pie-in-the-sky beliefs, but sooner or later you will open your eyes to reality(probably when Wylie never becomes a decent major league player).

 

"To write a guy that is coming off an injury based on incorrect scouting reports, while acting like you are an authority is assinine."

 

The injury arguement works against him more then it works for him. You say that his injury problems are the cause for his struggles and that we should be patient, but once again you fail to look at things both ways. The fact that he has been injury-prone works against him more then it helps him. It leaves doubts in the coaches heads, affects his ability(the fact is that only a small amount of pitchers come back from MAJOR surgery and regain their pre-injury form), and allows other prospects to pass him on the depth charts(Ginter, Majewski, Diaz, Rauch, Pacheco are just some of the righties that will most likely get a shot before him). These are facts that you continue to neglect because it argues against your beliefs.

 

On a different note, just because a couple of credible scout reports disagree with you doesn't mean they are wrong. Has it ever crossed your mind that you could be wrong? Probably not considering that you come off as one of those guys that always has to be right not matter how wrong they are. I am still going to take the scout reports from pro-scouts that get paid to scout, then you with your pie-in-the-sky bias views.

 

"Go out and watch a few games and see a player before you act like you are an authority on him. You might be surprised! You might actually find my head IS out of my ass and I do know a thing or two."

 

You need to learn to read and comprehend better. Please go back to my orginal post in which I state that I do watch games in which I formulate my own opinions(although I also know that I am not a pro-scout, a concept you fail to grasp). My older brother lives in Greensboro, NC and my old college roommate lives in Birmingham, AL so I do see anywhere from 5-10 Sox minor league games a year. Not only that, but I currently live in Tucson were I get to see some of the Sox top prospects play on an everyday basis for an entire month during ST. So quit pretending that you are the only one to watch the Sox minor leaguers.