Getz help KC LAD make Top Ten deadline additions

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Lol he could just not pitch? They can’t force him to physically do anything.

So essentially hold out in-season while under contract? When has this ever happened?

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Great. What leverage does he have again to dictate how the team utilizes him? They could throw him back in the bullpen against his will and what’s he going to do?

a pitcher who just tripled his max innings?  My ArM hUrTs.  Done.

[Bob Sacamano]

16 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

So essentially hold out in-season while under contract? When has this ever happened?

He's way over his innings. He acknowledged this. He's actually worried about the health of his arm too. This is kind of a specific case.

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

a pitcher who just tripled his max innings?  My ArM hUrTs.  Done.

Yeah 100000%. Very easy to do. Dude has almost thrown as many innings this season as he did from 2018-2023.

Edited September 17 by Bob Sacamano

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

a pitcher who just tripled his max innings?  My ArM hUrTs.  Done.

I guess but for a guy that’s 2 years away from free agency pitching well in the postseason sure would look good on the resume and build a better case for the extension he so desires don’t ya think? I understand there is injury risk but there was injury risk to throwing another 30 innings in August and September with the Sox too so 🤷‍♂️ 

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah 100000%. Very easy to do. Dude has almost thrown as many innings this season as he did from 2018-2023.

I promise you when a guy goes from 50 to 140 innings in one year his arm is some degree of hurting pretty much all of the time.  These guys have aches and soreness on a good day.  No one would think less of him if it was too much because of the leap he just took.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess but for a guy that’s 2 years away from free agency pitching well in the postseason sure would look good on the resume and build a better case for the extension he so desires don’t ya think? I understand there is injury risk but there was injury risk to throwing another 30 innings in August and September with the Sox too so 🤷‍♂️ 

You might think so, but he obviously things different and he is the one with the billion dollar arm.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You might think so, but he obviously things different and he is the one with the billion dollar arm.

My point is, if he was so concerned about risking injury to end the season, why hasn’t he said my ArM hUrTs already?

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

My point is, if he was so concerned about risking injury to end the season, why hasn’t he said my ArM hUrTs already?

Because he has gotten his way.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

59 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Because he has gotten his way.

His way would be a 9 figure extension already in hand so not really

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

His way would be a 9 figure extension already in hand so not really

Which is more likely to happen with his way.  He becomes more valuable as a starter, which he did this year.  He's also done it without any injury.  He left himself up to the Sox for the previous years, and we see where it got him.  No extension, hurt, and a reliever.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

46 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Which is more likely to happen with his way.  He becomes more valuable as a starter, which he did this year.  He's also done it without any injury.  He left himself up to the Sox for the previous years, and we see where it got him.  No extension, hurt, and a reliever.

Actually, leaving it up to the Sox gets him to free agency at age 27 with TJS in the rear view and very little wear and tear on his arm. He should be thanking the Sox lol

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Actually, leaving it up to the Sox gets him to free agency at age 27 with TJS in the rear view and very little wear and tear on his arm. He should be thanking the Sox lol

The Sox way would have left hundreds of millions of dollars potentially on the table by potentially rushing him as a reliever instead of taking his time as a starter.  He might have started the money earlier, but he should have been between $3m and $5m in his first  year in arb as a starter.  Instead he was barely over minimum as an injury riddled reliever.

[Bob Sacamano]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Actually, leaving it up to the Sox gets him to free agency at age 27 with TJS in the rear view and very little wear and tear on his arm. He should be thanking the Sox lol

Yeah, I said the same thing around the trade deadline. Like, yeah, he's not earning as much as he could in arb these last couple of years of his control, but that's not a lot anyway. He will be a free agent probably a year or 2 earlier than he would have been had they actually made him a starter in the minors first. Assuming he is mostly healthy and great over the next two years, he is in a position where he can sign a long term deal when he is a free agent with an opt-out or two.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox way would have left hundreds of millions of dollars potentially on the table by potentially rushing him as a reliever instead of taking his time as a starter.  He might have started the money earlier, but he should have been between $3m and $5m in his first  year in arb as a starter.  Instead he was barely over minimum as an injury riddled reliever.

That’s peanuts compared to entering free agency a minimum two years sooner (at age 27!) than he would have with just about any other team. In fact, it’s possible if they worked him as a starter in the minors that he would have undergone TJS before even receiving an MLB promotion. As a result, his mlb service time wouldn’t have started until “maybe” last season but more likely this season. That’s a massive difference compared to being just two years away from free agency now. Make no mistake about it, the Sox did Garrett a HUGE favor with how they handled his early years as a pro.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That’s peanuts compared to entering free agency a minimum two years sooner (at age 27!) than he would have with just about any other team. In fact, it’s possible if they worked him as a starter in the minors that he would have undergone TJS before even receiving an MLB promotion. As a result, his mlb service time wouldn’t have started until “maybe” last season but more likely this season. That’s a massive difference compared to being just two years away from free agency now. Make no mistake about it, the Sox did Garrett a HUGE favor with how they handled his early years as a pro.

If they had stayed with the Sox way, Crochet would be valued as an oft injured and relatively unproven  reliever.  That isn't great.  It isn't just about service time.  It is about lifetime earnings.  Getting a few bucks early might be a thing, but you are playing for the powerball contract.  His deal as a reliever would have been missing a zero as to what he could get as a starter.  It's pennywise and pound foolish.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

30 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If they had stayed with the Sox way, Crochet would be valued as an oft injured and relatively unproven  reliever.  That isn't great.  It isn't just about service time.  It is about lifetime earnings.  Getting a few bucks early might be a thing, but you are playing for the powerball contract.  His deal as a reliever would have been missing a zero as to what he could get as a starter.  It's pennywise and pound foolish.

Are you saying that the Sox didn’t make the decision to turn him into a starting pitcher this season? I’m really not following your logic at all because it doesn’t make sense.

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Are you saying that the Sox didn’t make the decision to turn him into a starting pitcher this season? I’m really not following your logic at all because it doesn’t make sense.

Literally, Crochet asked them to do it.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Literally, Crochet asked them to do it.

I’m sure he’s been asking for years but I highly doubt it would have worked out so well for Garrett if he started out as a SP in 2020 after he was drafted. 

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m sure he’s been asking for years but I highly doubt it would have worked out so well for Garrett if he started out as a SP in 2020 after he was drafted. 

It also wouldn't have worked if he didn't force the issue.

[WhiteSox2023]

On 9/16/2024 at 12:49 PM, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m saying the Orioles already traded for Eflin when they were still looking for an arm in late July. They decided to go the “cheap” route with Rogers rather than upping the ante a little further for Crochet.

And trading for Crochet isn’t just about this season alone, even though he’d be a lot more helpful to the Orioles than Rogers next month in the playoffs. It’s also about the next two seasons when they lose their ace and most reliable SP Corbin Burnes this offseason leaving another gaping hole to fill in the rotation.

Lastly, yes, it’s SSS but Mayo has a -6 wRC+ and -0.5 fWAR with a 47.5% k rate so far in mlb. That’s hard to do. The shine is certainly wearing off on several of these highly touted Orioles prospects including Jackson Holliday as well.

I still disagree that the shine wears off that quickly.  But if it has, I hope they try to trade Crochet for Mayo again in the offseason.  My guess is that the Orioles will still say no and the Sox will get back a headline prospect that is not rated as highly as Mayo.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 hours ago, JoeC said:

His leverage at the time of the trade deadline was that he:

1. Was one of the top pitchers in the game, and he was on the market available for via trade. Any team acquiring him would have been doing so under the premise of getting a limited number of elite-level innings out of him for 2024.
2. Was still under multiple years of team control (arb). Any team acquiring him would have been doing so under the premise of getting many more elite-level innings out of him for at least 2025.
3. Any team acquiring him would have paid a substantial amount of prospect capital to acquire him, with a price set by (1) and (2).

The risk to Crochet for pitching in the postseason is the fact that his arm has been taxed like it has never been taxed before... ever. So he's at an elevated risk for injury, as has been discussed on this forum ad nauseum.

As far as the leverage that Crochet had, he has to look out for his long-term health. While I think it's kind of bush league, players at some point have to look out for their own health at some point, and I would imagine that the players' association would be able to speak up for him

You make excellent points understanding Crochet's position but then you ruined it all by saying you think it's bush league.

I know the typical response was F*** Crochet but you gave the reason why it was actually very mature decision to do what he did.

When you are a young man with a talent in a system that chews up and spits out the young and talented players who get injured, you have to look out for #1. No one else is looking out for you in the system. He could get a major injury and never be heard from again at the age of 26. That would suck if you had a 9 figure arm then you give your heart and soul to a team pitching and pushing your talent beyond physical limitations only  to get injured and tossed aside. You let that happen to you and you end up hating how young and stupid you were as you empty another liquor bottle.

I love what Crochet did. f*** The Man and Big Brother. Power to the People.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I still disagree that the shine wears off that quickly.  But if it has, I hope they try to trade Crochet for Mayo again in the offseason.  My guess is that the Orioles will still say no and the Sox will get back a headline prospect that is not rated as highly as Mayo.

My guess is that Crochet won't be traded in the off season and that his decision at the 2024 trade deadline may ultimately benefit the Sox.

Right now he's just fatigued which is totally understandable given the amount of innings he's pitched. With fatigue comes loss of command and bite on your pitches.

Good new is he's healthy. And he won't be a free agent til 2027 so there's still no hurry to move him.

I think Getz 'll get low balled for most of the off season given the results of the Fedde trade and once again treating the Sox like crackheads because Reinsdorf's other interests have left Getz begging for good offers when it's apparent teams are hoarding their young position player talent.

Getz may just have to pitch Crochet into the season and hope he can reproduce close to what he did in the 1st half this year. Only now Crochet should be able to pitch a lot more innings.

[caulfield12]

51 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My guess is that Crochet won't be traded in the off season and that his decision at the 2024 trade deadline may ultimately benefit the Sox.

Right now he's just fatigued which is totally understandable given the amount of innings he's pitched. With fatigue comes loss of command and bite on your pitches.

Good new is he's healthy. And he won't be a free agent til 2027 so there's still no hurry to move him.

I think Getz 'll get low balled for most of the off season given the results of the Fedde trade and once again treating the Sox like crackheads because Reinsdorf's other interests have left Getz begging for good offers when it's apparent teams are hoarding their young position player talent.

Getz may just have to pitch Crochet into the season and hope he can reproduce close to what he did in the 1st half this year. Only now Crochet should be able to pitch a lot more innings.

DeJong Kopech Burger and others have done just fine...most better than their Sox performance/s except Eloy.  Pham would still be second best OPS behind Vaughn etc.

Fedde result will and should have nothing to do with Crochet trade value.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

DeJong Kopech Burger and others have done just fine...most better than their Sox performance/s except Eloy.  Pham would still be second best OPS behind Vaughn etc.

Fedde result will and should have nothing to do with Crochet trade value.

I think the Fedde trade showed Getz inexperience if he wouldn't trade with the Twins and that he took on a poor fielder from a system known for developing bats who couldn't get anything from Vargas.

Youre right it won't have anything to do with his value but it will with the offers along with the other factors I mentioned. Getz needs help with with how to pit these teams against each other. Up your offer ,your rival is going to get him, you clearly value him, start acting like it.