White Sox w/ 10 of top 79 fWAR pitchers

[caulfield12]

1 Sale

7 Cease

8 Crochet

20 Lopez

28 Fedde

47 Bassitt

60 Montas

63 Rodon

73 Flexen

79 Quintana

Kopech 0.4

Edited September 15 by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

Two bad only two are still around and Crochet will be gone this winter.

Lopez by the way left his last start again more arm issues. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Two bad only two are still around and Crochet will be gone this winter.

Lopez by the way left his last start again more arm issues. 

Struggling with workload undoubtedly...Braves are desperate now.

[spiderman]

White Sox rotation options for next season 

Missing anyone? Lots more depth, good overall potential, but probably 2 years away from being competitive with upside

- Crochet (but likely to be traded)..maybe a player they receive in a trade for him.

- Thorpe

- Cannon

- D.Martin

- Sean Burke / Ky Bush / Nastrini/Eder

- Schultz (after May)

- Hagen Smith (maybe later in 2024)

- Flexen (or some similar veteran)

Edited September 18 by spiderman

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, spiderman said:

White Sox rotation options for next season 

Missing anyone? Lots more depth, good overall potential, but probably 2 years away from being competitive with upside

- Crochet (but likely to be traded)..maybe a player they receive in a trade for him.

- Thorpe

- Cannon

- D.Martin

- Sean Burke / Ky Bush / Nastrini

- Schultz (after May)

- Hagen Smith (maybe later in 2024)

- Flexen (or some similar veteran)

They'll probably sign at least 1-2 Flexen-like vets.

Cannon and Martin seem like pretty sure bets.  Thorpe will be there if he's healthy enough.   Burke would be another front-runner at the moment, SSS.

I think you mean Hagen Smith later in 2025, but they will probably/undoubtedly play the service time game and hold him back until May 2026.

 

That way they can promote the additions of Montgomery and Schultz for 2025, Smith and ????? for 2026...if they even decide to hold SoxFests.

Edited September 18 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, spiderman said:

White Sox rotation options for next season 

Missing anyone? Lots more depth, good overall potential, but probably 2 years away from being competitive with upside

- Crochet (but likely to be traded)..maybe a player they receive in a trade for him.

- Thorpe

- Cannon

- D.Martin

- Sean Burke / Ky Bush / Nastrini

- Schultz (after May)

- Hagen Smith (maybe later in 2024)

- Flexen (or some similar veteran)

I’m not sure what to make of Martin yet, but I think there’s more the core of a bullpen here than a competitive rotation. There’s a potential top two starting pitchers, maybe another arm that turns out tolerable, but I think a lot of the minor arms are guys that get exposed after too many long outings or too many times being seen. At least so far that is, maybe they all add pitches or velocity this offseason.

[caulfield12]

Well, Eder managed to start his career with a 9.00 ERA.

Ones across the board on his stat line, IP run walk hit ER, etc.

[greg775]

I tell you, Sox coulda been a contender. They let all those pitchers go. And yet Jerry is so proud of his organization.

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I tell you, Sox coulda been a contender. They let all those pitchers go. And yet Jerry is so proud of his organization.

It's not just that they let them all go but what did they get in return? Nothing that looks too great.

[greg775]

12 hours ago, Chimpton said:

It's not just that they let them all go but what did they get in return? Nothing that looks too great.

Shows you how the tank path to winning in almost non-existent. That list is embarrassing to the organization.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Shows you how the tank path to winning in almost non-existent. That list is embarrassing to the organization.

Except the Sox just did it with back to back playoff appearances.  The Cubs got a World Series out of it.  The Astros have been a playoff team for how many years now?  The O's are on their way to their second straight playoffs...

[greg775]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Except the Sox just did it with back to back playoff appearances.  The Cubs got a World Series out of it.  The Astros have been a playoff team for how many years now?  The O's are on their way to their second straight playoffs...

I'd take my chances playing with the guys they let go including many on that list. To greg, tank is a four-letter word.

[southsider2k5]

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

I'd take my chances playing with the guys they let go including many on that list. To greg, tank is a four-letter word.

So is greg.

[spiderman]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:34 PM, Balta1701 said:

I’m not sure what to make of Martin yet, but I think there’s more the core of a bullpen here than a competitive rotation. There’s a potential top two starting pitchers, maybe another arm that turns out tolerable, but I think a lot of the minor arms are guys that get exposed after too many long outings or too many times being seen. At least so far that is, maybe they all add pitches or velocity this offseason.

It's hard to have much confidence in the upside of several of these guys, but they have definitely improved the depth of available starting pitchers.

Obviously, Schultz, Thorpe and Hagen (excluding Crochet because they are highly likely to trade him for an offensive player) are all projected to be top half of the rotation starters so this team is pretty loaded with options, but all of this is prospect humping for now.

I do expect Cannon and Martin to be favorites for rotation spots to open next season along Thorpe. I am hoping that Hagen and Schultz are not part of the roster until at least May for contractual reasons (Hagen is not even a probability to pitch next season in the majors, there's just a chance he'll be here quick).

I will give them credit though for rebuilding the young pitching on this roster although some of these guys will clearly not work out. It's just much better depth than they have had in recent memory.

[DFAthewave69420]

On 9/17/2024 at 10:19 PM, spiderman said:

White Sox rotation options for next season 

Missing anyone? Lots more depth, good overall potential, but probably 2 years away from being competitive with upside

- Crochet (but likely to be traded)..maybe a player they receive in a trade for him.

- Thorpe

- Cannon

- D.Martin

- Sean Burke / Ky Bush / Nastrini/Eder

- Schultz (after May)

- Hagen Smith (maybe later in 2024)

- Flexen (or some similar veteran)

Cannon, Martin, and Burke are most likely in the OD rotation.  Throw Thorpe in there if healthy.

Eder, Bush, Veteran 1 year flier get the last 1 or 2 rotation spots depending Spring Training. 

Schultz up by June...

Hopefully 2 or 3 of these guys pan out to sub 3.50 ERA guys and we don't have duds.

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, spiderman said:

It's hard to have much confidence in the upside of several of these guys, but they have definitely improved the depth of available starting pitchers.

Obviously, Schultz, Thorpe and Hagen (excluding Crochet because they are highly likely to trade him for an offensive player) are all projected to be top half of the rotation starters so this team is pretty loaded with options, but all of this is prospect humping for now.

I do expect Cannon and Martin to be favorites for rotation spots to open next season along Thorpe. I am hoping that Hagen and Schultz are not part of the roster until at least May for contractual reasons (Hagen is not even a probability to pitch next season in the majors, there's just a chance he'll be here quick).

I will give them credit though for rebuilding the young pitching on this roster although some of these guys will clearly not work out. It's just much better depth than they have had in recent memory.

Thorpe still has a lot to prove with his health and fastball command when behind in the count.

Don’t see Schultz and Smith getting pushed up super fast without any offense to support them.   That miss timing of the roster is what led to Rodon leaving when he was just hitting his stride as a Sox…or JR’s pocketbook.

But Schultz has been babied along for a reason.

Edited September 27 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

5 hours ago, spiderman said:

Obviously, Schultz, Thorpe and Hagen (excluding Crochet because they are highly likely to trade him for an offensive player) are all projected to be top half of the rotation starters so this team is pretty loaded with options, but all of this is prospect humping for now.

As of right now I’m not remotely convinced that Thorpe is a starter. Thorpe was not a guy who could be a successful starter with what I saw this year. He might come back stronger next year or add a pitch or something like that, but not the guy I’ve seen so far. I will give you Smith and Noah as potentially solid starters if they avoid the surgery

[TaylorStSox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

As of right now I’m not remotely convinced that Thorpe is a starter. Thorpe was not a guy who could be a successful starter with what I saw this year. He might come back stronger next year or add a pitch or something like that, but not the guy I’ve seen so far. I will give you Smith and Noah as potentially solid starters if they avoid the surgery

MiLB stats:

199 IP/238K/0.95 WHIP 

Before he got hurt, he had a 3.03 ERA over 7 starts. He won't be an ace, but to say he won't be a successful starter is just really stupid based on pretty much every metric and advanced stat available. I guess we should go back to trusting the "eye test" though. Very White Sox of you. 

Edited September 28 by TaylorStSox

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

MiLB stats:

199 IP/238K/0.95 WHIP 

Before he got hurt, he had a 3.03 ERA over 7 starts. He won't be an ace, but to say he won't be a successful starter is just really stupid based on pretty much every metric and advanced stat available. I guess we should go back to trusting the "eye test" though. Very White Sox of you. 

Over those solid 7 starts he had a .156 BABIP. He had an ERA of 5.5 with a .200 BABIP.

He had a 5.08 K/9. No qualified starter in MLB had a K/9 under 6.33, and out of the bottom guys almost all of them have ERAs in the high 4s. He doesn’t make up for this with exceptional control or high numbers of ground balls.

He had a handful of good starts based on luck, but his profile is of a guy with an ERA in the high 5s right now if he were to pitch enough for fluky things to average out.

Maybe he figures this out with more work, but he didn’t improve on this at all during the year, in his last 17.2 innings he struck out 7, so his K rate was getting worse.

The guy we saw in 2024 will not be a tolerable starter. Maybe he adds a pitch. Maybe he adds velocity. Maybe he figures out how to strike people out with work. Maybe his control improves. Maybe you move him to the bullpen and he picks up velocity. But 7 solid starts based entirely on a .150 BABIP would only fool Rick Hahn into thinking it was real. Right now he is not a starter.

[fathom]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Over those solid 7 starts he had a .156 BABIP. He had an ERA of 5.5 with a .200 BABIP.

He had a 5.08 K/9. No qualified starter in MLB had a K/9 under 6.33, and out of the bottom guys almost all of them have ERAs in the high 4s. He doesn’t make up for this with exceptional control or high numbers of ground balls.

He had a handful of good starts based on luck, but his profile is of a guy with an ERA in the high 5s right now if he were to pitch enough for fluky things to average out.

Maybe he figures this out with more work, but he didn’t improve on this at all during the year, in his last 17.2 innings he struck out 7, so his K rate was getting worse.

The guy we saw in 2024 will not be a tolerable starter. Maybe he adds a pitch. Maybe he adds velocity. Maybe he figures out how to strike people out with work. Maybe his control improves. Maybe you move him to the bullpen and he picks up velocity. But 7 solid starts based entirely on a .150 BABIP would only fool Rick Hahn into thinking it was real. Right now he is not a starter.

And absolutely should have not been the headliner for Cease

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

And absolutely should have not been the headliner for Cease

Different fight, not worth having here. The problem here is that people believed his 7 starts were great without looking at the BABIP line or peripherals and convinced themselves he could keep something up based on a true fluke. 

He needs to be a different pitcher. Maybe he can be, but right now he was really bad.

[fathom]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Different fight, not worth having here. The problem here is that people believed his 7 starts were great without looking at the BABIP line or peripherals and convinced themselves he could keep something up based on a true fluke. 

He needs to be a different pitcher. Maybe he can be, but right now he was really bad.

Didn’t he also face a lot of bad offenses?

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Didn’t he also face a lot of bad offenses?

The one where I bothered looking at his numbers was a game against the Royals. He imploded against the Os in his next start.

He opened against the Mariners. His good starts were Seattle, Detroit, Colorado, Miami, Minnesota, and KC.

[TaylorStSox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Over those solid 7 starts he had a .156 BABIP. He had an ERA of 5.5 with a .200 BABIP.

He had a 5.08 K/9. No qualified starter in MLB had a K/9 under 6.33, and out of the bottom guys almost all of them have ERAs in the high 4s. He doesn’t make up for this with exceptional control or high numbers of ground balls.

He had a handful of good starts based on luck, but his profile is of a guy with an ERA in the high 5s right now if he were to pitch enough for fluky things to average out.

Maybe he figures this out with more work, but he didn’t improve on this at all during the year, in his last 17.2 innings he struck out 7, so his K rate was getting worse.

The guy we saw in 2024 will not be a tolerable starter. Maybe he adds a pitch. Maybe he adds velocity. Maybe he figures out how to strike people out with work. Maybe his control improves. Maybe you move him to the bullpen and he picks up velocity. But 7 solid starts based entirely on a .150 BABIP would only fool Rick Hahn into thinking it was real. Right now he is not a starter.

Nice post. You win.