Spend it & they will come......

[KeithFranklin]

I am with JR on this one: why take a 10-20 Mill loss if the team can't win in the PATHETIC ALC. Most posters on this board would leave their place of work if they were offered 1 or 2 dollars per hour more some place else....And here we are throwing tens of millions of other people's dough around like it's peanuts.

 

That is the problem right there...It doesnt really interest me anymore to see them trying to win the ALC. I want to see them try to win the World Series and in not a way that the next season they have just as much chance of being under 500 as they are in winning anything. Look at Anaheim and Florida...Sure I would be thrilled to win a World Series but I want it to be because we are trying to be a dominant team. I slowed the amount of games I went to not because of the park but because starting with the strike year (actually as far back as 1993) JR always tried to catch lightning in the bottle with 1 year contracts to tier 2 free agents, or trying to fill holes with trades when the hole could have easily been filled with a free agent and not having to give up talent. Look at the Kip Wells trade...We could have easily picked up a free agent pitcher instead of the bum we got from Pittsburgh (And I mean a pitcher as good as he was supposed to be) in a trade that cost us young talent.

 

 

If the Sox want me to purchase season tickets (and I am willing to pick up 4 box seats for 81 games) they need to be willing to invest in more then tier 2 free agents and must be willing to bump the payroll to around 80 million or I will just go to games on a whim rather then invest in a full season.

[mmmmmbeeer]

A wise man once said that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of futility.  Why not see that until someone budges, the results aren't going to change?  Perhaps it is time for someone to do something different. 

Which is easier to change, JR, one man, spending an extra $20M or doing what he's been doing and hope that another million fans change their minds and show up one of these years? When he bought this team he didn't just buy a business. He may see it that way, but there are millions of fans that don't see things that way. He bought a piece of the city of Chicago. He owns the white sox blood that flows through many of us since our fathers, mothers, grandparents, or friends turned us onto this franchise. It is his responsibility as the owner of one of the oldest franchises in MLB to ensure that a sufficient amount of money is spent year in and year out to put a competitor on the field. I'm a huge Sox fan, I've got my 2 yr old son rooting for the Sox already, my entire family is full of Sox fans. Every year our eyes hope they see a successful season but every year our minds tell us that we just don't have enough. Either we're a pitcher short, or a 2B short, or we've got a weak pen. If we can see these holes as fans then there is no excuse that the management team of the franchise can't see those same holes and do everything needed to fill them. One more thing, it's not just winning a division here and there. If we'd won the ALC this season and turned around and dumped Maggs, Kong, Flash, Bart, etc... attendance would not increase next year. We need a team that will dominate the ALC for the next 3-4 years. With the competition in the division it wouldn't take too much more loot to get it done. Attendance would then improve. Fans would be happy. JR would be happy.

 

Do you think that when JR decides he's going to sell the franchise that his last year he will blow $100M to win one on the way out???

[Rex Hudler]

Which is easier to change, JR, one man,  spending an extra $20M or doing what he's been doing and hope that another million fans change their minds and show up one of these years?  When he bought this team he didn't just buy a business.  He may see it that way, but there are millions of fans that don't see things that way.  He bought a piece of the city of Chicago.  He owns the white sox blood that flows through many of us since our fathers, mothers, grandparents, or friends turned us onto this franchise.  It is his responsibility as the owner of one of the oldest franchises in MLB to ensure that a sufficient amount of money is spent year in and year out to put a competitor on the field.  I'm a huge Sox fan, I've got my 2 yr old son rooting for the Sox already, my entire family is full of Sox fans.  Every year our eyes hope they see a successful season but every year our minds tell us that we just don't have enough.  Either we're a pitcher short, or a 2B short, or we've got a weak pen.  If we can see these holes as fans then there is no excuse that the management team of the franchise can't see those same holes and do everything needed to fill them.  One more thing, it's not just winning a division here and there.  If we'd won the ALC this season and turned around and dumped Maggs, Kong, Flash, Bart, etc... attendance would not increase next year.  We need a team that will dominate the ALC for the next 3-4 years.  With the competition in the division it wouldn't take too much more loot to get it done.  Attendance would then improve.  Fans would be happy.  JR would be happy. 

 

Do you think that when JR decides he's going to sell the franchise that his last year he will blow $100M to win one on the way out???

IF the Sox are a part of the city of Chicago, don't you think Chicagoans should support them win or lose? Maybe I am just way off here, but to me a fan is not someone that only buys tickets when he is happy with the free agents the team signed or the amount of money they spend. A fan is someone who roots for the name on the front of the jersey as much as the one on the back.

[BrandoFan]

When he bought this team he didn't just buy a business. He may see it that way, but there are millions of fans that don't see things that way. He bought a piece of the city of Chicago. He owns the white sox blood that flows through many of us since our fathers, mothers, grandparents, or friends turned us onto this franchise. It is his responsibility as the owner of one of the oldest franchises in MLB to ensure that a sufficient amount of money is spent year in and year out to put a competitor on the field.

 

I am sure that's the way Charles Comiskey saw it, too.

 

 

I am sorry, but it's hard to read the above without cracking up and/or some major eyerollage. And I happen to agree with everything you said!

[Al Lopez Ghost (old)]

Rex,

 

The answer is because Sox fans do not trust Reinsdorf.

 

If they honestly thought showing up would make him give us a great team, then it would be sold out 3-4 times a week.

 

But people dont trust Reinsdorf.

 

We dont trust the Owner who took apart the Bulls. We dont trust the owner who was a large part of the reason the World Series was not played, when the Sox were in First place and people were showing. We dont trust him because of the White Flag trade, etc.

 

You cant trust an owner that has shown nothing but the unwillingness to go out and win a championship. Even when he won with the Bulls, he was cheap about it.

 

Sox fans want to go to games, they just dont want Reinsdorf to get the best of them again.

 

That is why the Sox have to be winning before people will show, because nothing but actual proof will do this time.

 

Weve believed him before, now its time that he believe in us.

 

SB

Oh God let's not muddy up the Sox discussion with the Bulls stuff.

 

I can't stand Reinsdorf, but that didn't stop me from being a full season ticket holder from 1984 through 1995, and I still go to about 30 games a year. Here's what i don't understand. If you were invited to a poker game, and you looked at the table and saw you couldn't afford to play, because everyone else had too many chips stacked up, would you sit down and play? Would you keep playing? You'd have to be crazy, or masochistic to do that. Or maybe he's a sadist and Sox fans are the masochists. That's it - Reisdorf is a dominatrix!!!!!!!!! Now I understand.

[whitesoxfan99]

You cant trust an owner that has shown nothing but the unwillingness to go out and win a championship. Even when he won with the Bulls, he was cheap about it.

You're kidding right? The one thing I will give JR respect for is that he spent money on the Bulls. He gave Jordan over $30 mil a year for the last couple years. He gave Pippen and Phil Jackson huge contracts as well. The only problem is he won't do the same for the White Sox.

[BrandoFan]

You're kidding right?  The one thing I will give JR respect for is that he spent money on the Bulls.  He gave Jordan over $30 mil a year for the last couple years.  He gave Pippen and Phil Jackson huge contracts as well.  The only problem is he won't do the same for the White Sox.

Granted I don't know (or care about) the full extent of Bulls Saga, BUT....

 

1. The difference between Sox and Bulls is that Bulls were one of the 5 greatest dynasties, with super-competitive teams from 1990 to 1996 even with M-Jeffs first retirement. JR knew that by paying the full cap amount, he was almost guaranteed a Championsip.......Where even if he were to spend 200 Mill on the Sox, he is guaranteed s***.

 

2. Bulls are in DEMAND and before 1999 were THE most prestigious and expensive franchise. White Sox of course are a red-headed stepchild, with fans who have to be literally begged and pampered to attend and consume. With Bulls JR KNEW that even if the team failed from Day 1, he would get his money back. With White Sox? Spending 80 million, could mean a 20 Mill LOSS if the team has anything less than a super-special season.

 

I am sure there are other, more subtle differences that escape my eye. Anyone?

[Rex Hudler]

Granted I don't know (or care about) the full extent of Bulls Saga, BUT....

 

1.  The difference between Sox and Bulls is that Bulls were one of the 5 greatest dynasties, with super-competitive teams from 1990 to 1996 even with M-Jeffs first retirement. JR knew that by paying the full cap amount, he was almost guaranteed a Championsip.......Where even if he were to spend 200 Mill on the Sox, he is guaranteed s***.

 

2.  Bulls are in DEMAND and before 1999 were THE most prestigious and expensive franchise. White Sox of course are a red-headed stepchild, with fans who have to be literally begged and pampered to attend and consume.  With Bulls JR KNEW that even if the team failed from Day 1, he would get his money back. With White Sox?  Spending 80 million, could mean a 20 Mill LOSS if the team has anything less than a super-special season. 

 

I am sure there are other, more subtle differences that escape my eye. Anyone?

You forgot one BIG difference............

 

Michael Jordan could play basketball. Not quite so in baseball.

[BrandoFan]

Michael Jordan could play basketball. Not quite so in baseball.

 

Common, that's way too subtle.

 

 

Again, as I explained before, it boiled down to this:

 

1. When JR was thinking whether to pay MJ 30 Mill or not back in '96, it was basically "pay and buy yourself a championship"....or "not".

 

JR had to be out of his mind not to pay Michael that amount- it wasn't generosity as much as it was common sense. In fact, if he had to do it all over again, JR would have done everything in his power to keep Bulls together another 2-3 years.

 

2. There was little-to-no risk. With the Sox there is a HUGE risk, so you're simply NOT going to see "generosity" JR showed with the Bulls. Not onless attendance and ratings and sales go through the roof and stay there.

[YASNY]

Rex,

 

Respectfully, sir, you really aren't grasping what these folks are trying to say. You have to look at the past, even back to the pre-Reinsdorf days, of the White Sox. Being a fan of the Sox has been a lifetime of disappointment, frustration and shattered hopes. We all consider ourselves good, loyal fans. Yet, we have not been shown the same loyalty by the current "regime". Here's the best way I can put for you. We are still loyal White Sox fans despite Reinsdorf. We are hanging in there, hoping beyond hope, when we know that he won't make a commitment to win the World Series. All Reinsdorf has ever insisted on was that the team be "competitive", not that they be champions. Still, while we all know that this is his attitude (It's been this way for over 20 years.) we still support this team.

 

We all hope that some day, magic will strike the Sox like it did the Marlins this year. Of course, if we threw in the towel and said to hell with it, that would be the year it happened. Nobody wants to invest a lifetime in a team, then miss it when the impossible dream becomes reality.

[Yossarian]

Rex,

 

Respectfully, sir, you really aren't grasping what these folks are trying to say.  You have to look at the past, even back to the pre-Reinsdorf days, of the White Sox.  Being a fan of the Sox has been a lifetime of disappointment, frustration and shattered hopes.  We all consider ourselves good, loyal fans.  Yet, we have not been shown the same loyalty by the current "regime".  Here's the best way I can put for you.  We are still loyal White Sox fans despite Reinsdorf.  We are hanging in there, hoping beyond hope, when we know that he won't make a commitment to win the World Series.  All Reinsdorf has ever insisted on was that the team be "competitive", not that they be champions.  Still, while we all know that this is his attitude (It's been this way for over 20 years.) we still support this team. 

 

We all hope that some day, magic will strike the Sox like it did the Marlins this year.  Of course, if we threw in the towel and said to hell with it, that would be the year it happened.  Nobody wants to invest a lifetime in a team, then miss it when the impossible dream becomes reality.

Congratulations. You said it the way I wish I would have said it. You understand exactly the way us long time Sox fans feel.

[Rex Hudler]

Rex,

 

Respectfully, sir, you really aren't grasping what these folks are trying to say.  You have to look at the past, even back to the pre-Reinsdorf days, of the White Sox.  Being a fan of the Sox has been a lifetime of disappointment, frustration and shattered hopes.  We all consider ourselves good, loyal fans.  Yet, we have not been shown the same loyalty by the current "regime".  Here's the best way I can put for you.  We are still loyal White Sox fans despite Reinsdorf.  We are hanging in there, hoping beyond hope, when we know that he won't make a commitment to win the World Series.  All Reinsdorf has ever insisted on was that the team be "competitive", not that they be champions.  Still, while we all know that this is his attitude (It's been this way for over 20 years.) we still support this team. 

 

We all hope that some day, magic will strike the Sox like it did the Marlins this year.  Of course, if we threw in the towel and said to hell with it, that would be the year it happened.  Nobody wants to invest a lifetime in a team, then miss it when the impossible dream becomes reality.

I do understand what you are saying Yas, even though I have not lived it.

 

BUT, rather than fight the current situation, why not try and change it somehow? You can't force out the owner so why not try and support the White Sox in any way possible?

 

I believe the problem is that there are not enough Sox fans or there are not enough that do support them. The attendance numbers reflect that.

 

In the years the Sox have been winning and attendance has gone up, do you really think it is the die-hard fans that caused the spike in attendance? My guess is no. When a team wins, the more casual fan gets involved. Maybe the number of die-hards has decreased for the very reasons you describe. All I know is that as long as Reinsdorf is the owner, things won't change unless someone swallows some pride and makes a difference. If that can't be done, then expect more of the same.

[Rex Hudler]

Michael Jordan could play basketball. Not quite so in baseball. 

 

 

Common, that's way too subtle.

 

Guess that should have been in green.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I do understand what you are saying Yas, even though I have not lived it. 

 

BUT, rather than fight the current situation, why not try and change it somehow?  You can't force out the owner so why not try and support the White Sox in any way possible?

 

I believe the problem is that there are not enough Sox fans or there are not enough that do support them.  The attendance numbers reflect that.

 

In the years the Sox have been winning and attendance has gone up, do you really think it is the die-hard fans that caused the spike in attendance?  My guess is no.  When a team wins, the more casual fan gets involved.  Maybe the number of die-hards has decreased for the very reasons you describe.  All I know is that as long as Reinsdorf is the owner, things won't change unless someone swallows some pride and makes a difference.  If that can't be done, then expect more of the same.

That's the point though....you can't expect 1 million people to change their minds and spend more money than they currently are. It won't happen. Either JR budges (1 man, 1 mind) or the fans budge (1 million people, 1 million minds). The fans won't change unless we have a winning team for more than 1 year.

[YASNY]

BUT, rather than fight the current situation, why not try and change it somehow? You can't force out the owner so why not try and support the White Sox in any way possible?

 

Rex, I can answer that question without batting an eye. White Sox fans do not TRUST Jerry Reinsdorf. They do not believe that he would actually spend the money if they put 3 million butts in the seats.

[AngelLeroy]

Its been awhile since I've posted here; I usually prefer to lurk. But I'd like to comment on this.

 

If Jerry Reinsdorf can only afford $50 or $60 million for payroll, when the ML average is around $70 million, then why does he still own the team? It's obvious that he's at a disadvantage, and other teams field higher payrolls with attendance at about the same level, or even lower. Maybe he should sell the team, or go for it all one year and raise the payroll by as much as it takes to get a seriously competetive team. If the fans still don't come, we know it's not his fault, and he can sell the team or cut payroll as much as he likes. If he truly wants a World Series more than anything as we've often heard, he should at least try something new. Maybe the stadium enhancements are on the right track now, I don't know. I'd still like to be in the mix for a few key free agents every offseason, however.

 

I also don't understand why some feel Sox fans should pack the stadium every night for a mediocre performance. No one wants to spend $25-$100 to go see corpseball. Winning teams have fans, losing ones don't, with the exception of the Cubs. Maybe the Sox won't draw 3 million every year, but I bet they'd be consistently above 2.25 million or so.