Kyyle23 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 9 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Who on this team was seen as better, offensively, than Eloy and Yoan? Nicky Lopez? I think the larger point here that you like to gloss over is that this site did not want to count on any of those players because of their history of not being able to be counted on. so yes, your theory of “they would be better if all of these players were healthy and played up the their best abilities” makes sense in the vacuum of space outside of the reality of their careers 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said: I think the larger point here that you like to gloss over is that this site did not want to count on any of those players because of their history of not being able to be counted on. so yes, your theory of “they would be better if all of these players were healthy and played up the their best abilities” makes sense in the vacuum of space outside of the reality of their careers It's like saying "yes we would all be way better if we had real players playing these games" and that is why we failed, when we know that we weren't going to have those players anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 16 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: Sox Machine breaks down the Olney/Rogers story: https://soxmachine.com/2024/09/the-white-soxs-root-problems-are-still-being-unearthed/ There’s another big problem…likely trading Robert, getting rid of all the Spanish speaking coaches, Sosa, Ramos Vargas Colas are all going to be increasingly isolated…along with DLS Iriarte Berroa. And getting Hispanic FA’s comfortable coming here? Let’s not forget ESPN’s Eduardo Perez is best friends with Grifol and knows EVERYTHING going on in that clubhouse…what do you think he would say if asked by anyone’s agent about going into that environment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 10 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: You're correct that they are the top 3, but that doesn't necessarily make them all good. Saying Luis Robert, Eloy Jimenez (always hurt and should never be counted on), and Yoan Moncada (hahahahahaha) are the 3 best hitters on your team is like picking a regular sized person (Luis Robert) and then 2 tall midgets from a group of midgets. Don't think the season would be that much different. Not record breaking, but still 110 losses around. That's all I've ever said. I don't know why this concept makes people dig in and fight against it. Nobody ever suggested anybody was surprised by it, or that Yoan, Eloy and Robert were the 3 best hitters in the game. The article points out that the the 3 guys who were supposed to be the three best hitters on the team were gone within the first two weeks, and that made the team worse than they left spring training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 (edited) 3 minutes ago, WestEddy said: That's all I've ever said. I don't know why this concept makes people dig in and fight against it. Nobody ever suggested anybody was surprised by it, or that Yoan, Eloy and Robert were the 3 best hitters in the game. The article points out that the the 3 guys who were supposed to be the three best hitters on the team were gone within the first two weeks, and that made the team worse than they left spring training. But you arguing it constantly comes as this season would be significantly different. That's all. They wouldn't be that much better than they are going to finish. Maybe 10 more wins? Maybe. Edited September 26 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WestEddy said: That's all I've ever said. I don't know why this concept makes people dig in and fight against it. Nobody ever suggested anybody was surprised by it, or that Yoan, Eloy and Robert were the 3 best hitters in the game. The article points out that the the 3 guys who were supposed to be the three best hitters on the team were gone within the first two weeks, and that made the team worse than they left spring training. And Anderson was the best hitter combined in the AL from 2019-2021 or 22, something like that. Him or DJ LeMahieu. Talk about disappearing/disappointing cores. Edited September 26 by caulfield12 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: But you arguing it constantly comes as this season would be significantly different. That's all. They wouldn't be that much better than they are going to finish. Maybe 10 more wins? Maybe. And we got so much better when Robert and Eloy got back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: But you arguing it constantly comes as this season would be significantly different. That's all. They wouldn't be that much better than they are going to finish. Maybe 10 more wins? Maybe. They left spring training a bad team, and losing what were supposed to be their top 3 hitters made them worse. The article clearly states this, as I have. We can agree that not being on course to set the all-time loss record would be significantly different from a 115 loss season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 5 minutes ago, WestEddy said: They left spring training a bad team, and losing what were supposed to be their top 3 hitters made them worse. The article clearly states this, as I have. We can agree that not being on course to set the all-time loss record would be significantly different from a 115 loss season. This is extremely generous. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 (edited) “One other thing that struck me from all of this is that they hadn’t even interviewed Hinch yet…which made me wonder why they had a jpeg of his signature already – let’s get cart and horse in the correct order. Did Jerry decide to hire TLR before Rick could hire AJ Hinch without interviewing him? In which case, holy hell this was some serious dysfunction. Another possibility I’ve contemplated is that it was just a “call coming from inside the house.” Did Rick Hahn just go scrape a picture of AJ Himch’s signature and include that in the initial press release to highlight the fact that that would have been his choice? I’ve made some executive hires and been hired for exec jobs and no one has ever asked me for a head shot before the interview and I’ve never asked that of anyone else.” SoxMachine/Margalus column comment…need to get Hahn’s truth telling someday or he keeps it secret to protect JR relationship. Or was it Haber? Edited September 26 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 41 minutes ago, WestEddy said: They left spring training a bad team, and losing what were supposed to be their top 3 hitters made them worse. The article clearly states this, as I have. We can agree that not being on course to set the all-time loss record would be significantly different from a 115 loss season. We can? If they lost 115 games but Eloy-Moncada-Robert play full-ish seasons, this team somehow may be in worse shape than it is now. We have yet to see the results of what this historic season brings, but the hope is it finally tells them everything needs to change. I’ll believe it when I see it, and certainly not holding my breath, but if they lost 105-110 games this season, it’s probably business as usual in 2025 at 35th and Shields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 22 hours ago, almagest said: Trying to think who this would be. Lance Lynn 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Lance Lynn He’s like Dallas Keuchel v2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 26 Author Share Posted September 26 22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: He’s like Dallas Keuchel v2.0 One thing I didn’t appreciate as much until this round of articles. When a guy like Ohtani or Soto or Wheeler hits the market, they are hitting the market because their teams could absolutely afford them back, but they’re likely to get more money than the team has to spend. These are the QO guys, a team would be happy bring them back if the contracts work out. But when a guy like Grandal, Lynn, Keuchel, Graveman, Clevinger becomes available, that’s a guy almost any team could re-sign if they wanted. The Dodgers could absolutely have kept Grandal, the Astros could have kept Graveman, the Padres could have kept Clevinger, the Rangers didn’t have to trade Lynn (maybe he’s the worst example here but this will stick). In other words, if you have payroll limit, you are getting guys teams could easily afford and don’t want. One reason why a team might not want a guy back is they think they’re about to fall off a cliff. I figured this out a while ago, it’s why so many White Sox FA signing faceplant, the White Sox are selectively getting guys who teams think are about to fall apart because that gets Reinsdorf his discount. But it turns out there’s another reason a team might let someone go - they’re just assholes. If your team is willing to sign free agents but only the cheapest ones, you get a double toxic combination - guys who are likely to fall apart and guys that teams want gone because they’re assholes. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 1 hour ago, Balta1701 said: One thing I didn’t appreciate as much until this round of articles. When a guy like Ohtani or Soto or Wheeler hits the market, they are hitting the market because their teams could absolutely afford them back, but they’re likely to get more money than the team has to spend. These are the QO guys, a team would be happy bring them back if the contracts work out. But when a guy like Grandal, Lynn, Keuchel, Graveman, Clevinger becomes available, that’s a guy almost any team could re-sign if they wanted. The Dodgers could absolutely have kept Grandal, the Astros could have kept Graveman, the Padres could have kept Clevinger, the Rangers didn’t have to trade Lynn (maybe he’s the worst example here but this will stick). In other words, if you have payroll limit, you are getting guys teams could easily afford and don’t want. One reason why a team might not want a guy back is they think they’re about to fall off a cliff. I figured this out a while ago, it’s why so many White Sox FA signing faceplant, the White Sox are selectively getting guys who teams think are about to fall apart because that gets Reinsdorf his discount. But it turns out there’s another reason a team might let someone go - they’re just assholes. If your team is willing to sign free agents but only the cheapest ones, you get a double toxic combination - guys who are likely to fall apart and guys that teams want gone because they’re assholes. Padres were done with Clevinger when he got rocked two years ago in NLCS against Phils. Big contract, unpopular in clubhouse…and they had to trade Quantrill, Josh Naylor, Hedges, Owen Miller, Gabriel Arias, Cantillo. And still didn’t want him back after that. https://awaybackgone.com/2022/05/04/cleveland-guardians-revisiting-the-mike-clevinger-trade/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurtCG Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 15 hours ago, TaylorStSox said: There's no evidence that either Anderson or Moncada were assholes. You just don't like them. Wasn't there a video taken in the clubhouse a few years back when it was announced that TA was going to the all star game? I remember none of his teammates cheering or acting excited for him. The whole video was very strange. Also, TA is currently sitting out there unemployed and has been since like July. No teams seem to want to have anything to do with him even on the leage minimum. Future hall of famer Jose Ramirez also KOd the dude during the middle of a game and said that TA "had been disrespecting the game for quite some time." Pretty sure Jose Ramirez knows more about baseball than most. Seems like there is some evidence actually.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 1 hour ago, LittleHurtCG said: Wasn't there a video taken in the clubhouse a few years back when it was announced that TA was going to the all star game? I remember none of his teammates cheering or acting excited for him. The whole video was very strange. Also, TA is currently sitting out there unemployed and has been since like July. No teams seem to want to have anything to do with him even on the leage minimum. Future hall of famer Jose Ramirez also KOd the dude during the middle of a game and said that TA "had been disrespecting the game for quite some time." Pretty sure Jose Ramirez knows more about baseball than most. Seems like there is some evidence actually.. There was a video of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 58 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: There was a video of this. All Star announcement or Ramirez's quite pointed comments about Anderson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted September 26 Share Posted September 26 8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: All Star announcement or Ramirez's quite pointed comments about Anderson? All Star announcement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 50 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: All Star announcement. The thing is, the year before and the Ricky years, there was plenty of video of the team having fun together. And seemingly liking one another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 3 minutes ago, Quin said: The thing is, the year before and the Ricky years, there was plenty of video of the team having fun together. And seemingly liking one another. It's almost like something changed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: It's almost like something changed... This is what happens when you trade Nick Madrigal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 46 minutes ago, Quin said: This is what happens when you trade Nick Madrigal. Dayton Moore would told Getz Sox too anti-Christian lol...purging Nicky Two Strikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 51 minutes ago, Quin said: This is what happens when you trade Nick Madrigal. Who knew he was the grindy glue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted September 27 Share Posted September 27 Grindy Glue sounds like something I don’t want to Google. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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