Brand Loyalty

[Texsox]

There are a few current companies that I'm pretty loyal to. Titleist, Patagonia, USAA, and DeWalt come to mind. If any of them performed like the Sox, I'd ditch them in a heartbeat. 

I've "tried on" four MLB baseball teams the past couple seasons and it just isn't authentic. So what do sports teams do to create such customer loyalty that other businesses can't? 

 

 

[Lip Man 1]

2 minutes ago, Texsox said:

There are a few current companies that I'm pretty loyal to. Titleist, Patagonia, USAA, and DeWalt come to mind. If any of them performed like the Sox, I'd ditch them in a heartbeat. 

I've "tried on" four MLB baseball teams the past couple seasons and it just isn't authentic. So what do sports teams do to create such customer loyalty that other businesses can't? 

 

 

Win and treat the fan base with respect and not act like they are dumb idiots. 

[Texsox]

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Win and treat the fan base with respect and not act like they are dumb idiots. 

Yet here we are after they did the opposite. We would go find another restaurant, bar, car brand, whatever yet we allow sports teams to abuse the fans and we keep coming back. 

[Green Line]

Is the loyalty in the room with us?

[DoUEvenShift]

Probably a bunch of things

Being tied to a specific location that you call home and/or have pride for. I'll die a Sox fan even though I moved from IL to NC.

Nostalgia/memories growing up. Going to games with your dad as a kid, getting autographs, playing backyard ball with friends and imitating your favorite players, etc.

You can pick a new team but you don't have a lifelong history invested with them. 

 

[Tnetennba]

Emotional attachment that becomes part of your identity. I can't think of a single brand or product that I have the same emotional connection to and "sweat equity" investment in.  I don't even think they are comparable.

Edited Wednesday at 10:33 PM by Tnetennba

[TaylorStSox]

Being a sports fan is irrational and shouldn't be examined the way consumer brand loyalty is examined. There's no inherent ROI in being a sports fan. Sports fans are 45 year old men that pay $12 for a beer while wearing a $300 jersey with another man's name on the back, as if they're LARP'ing. It's an 8 year old kid balling over a loss that has literally no impact on their real life and whose outcome is completely beyond their control. Sports are stupid. As such, any expectation of a return is stupid.

Edited Wednesday at 11:02 PM by TaylorStSox

[WhiteSox2023]

45 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Being a sports fan is irrational and shouldn't be examined the way consumer brand loyalty is examined. There's no inherent ROI in being a sports fan. Sports fans are 45 year old men that pay $12 for a beer while wearing a $300 jersey with another man's name on the back, as if they're LARP'ing. It's an 8 year old kid balling over a loss that has literally no impact on their real life and whose outcome is completely beyond their control. Sports are stupid. As such, any expectation of a return is stupid.

I think I agree with both of you (Texsox too).

I think of brand loyalty mainly pertaining to a company that provides goods and/or services.

But people also spend money on entertainment, which the Sox are failing to provide any positive form of.  But it’s easy to simply ignore the Sox, not pay to attend any of their games, and wait until they are good again so you can enjoy a game watching actual major league level talent.

[Tony]

43 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Being a sports fan is irrational and shouldn't be examined the way consumer brand loyalty is examined. There's no inherent ROI in being a sports fan. Sports fans are 45 year old men that pay $12 for a beer while wearing a $300 jersey with another man's name on the back, as if they're LARP'ing. It's an 8 year old kid balling over a loss that has literally no impact on their real life and whose outcome is completely beyond their control. Sports are stupid. As such, any expectation of a return is stupid.

This is wrong on a lot of levels.

- I have a closer relationship with my dad because of sports. It’s something we can always talk about with each other. I have many friends who aren’t as close with their fathers as I am, because they don’t seem to have a lot to talk about. I also have really good memories with him around 2005 and the Hawks Stanley Cup run. 
 

- I’ve been in a fantasy football league with 11 guys I went to high school with. I probably wouldn’t be in contact with probably 8 of those guys at this point in my life, but the fantasy league keeps us in touch and the main reason we’ve kept it going all these years. 
 

- I’ve won a good deal of money from said fantasy league, because I stay up on the NFL, so there literally is an ROI associated with that

- Sports are communal. When the Hawks went through their from 2010-2015, the city was buzzing, especially during the playoffs. It was awesome going to the bars to watch those games with a packed house and everyone invested. It also brings us together. The country is incredibly divided politically where everyone thinks the other side is the “enemy.” But when you’re the fan of the same team, that stuff goes away and you’re on the same side/team. 
 

- The actual payoff to your team winning can’t be matched by much. The Blackhawks went through a huge sexual assault scandal and it turned me off of the team for a while. But the memories I have of celebrating those cup wins didn’t change. Same with the 2005 White Sox. It became clear over time that team had a horseshoe up its collective ass given their lack of success in future seasons, but that doesn’t change the way I celebrated with friends and family in 2005. 
 

I could keep going, but yeah…you’re wrong

[Paulie4Pres]

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

Yet here we are after they did the opposite. We would go find another restaurant, bar, car brand, whatever yet we allow sports teams to abuse the fans and we keep coming back. 

Speak for yourself. I'm just here to watch the wreckage burn, at this point. I am only watching tonight hoping they break the record. f*** this team and their scumbag loser of an owner.

[Texsox]

25 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think I agree with both of you (Texsox too).

I think of brand loyalty mainly pertaining to a company that provides goods and/or services.

But people also spend money on entertainment, which the Sox are failing to provide any positive form of.  But it’s easy to simply ignore the Sox, not pay to attend any of their games, and wait until they are good again so you can enjoy a game watching actual major league level talent.

I think I missed the mark with brand loyalty. There is probably a better analogy. I think you kind of hit a point I missed, but *we* aren't finding it easy to ignore them. Yes, a lot of the fan base is ignoring them but they still managed to not be dead last in attendance. 

Perhaps it's the same fans that fill the corners of NASCAR stadiums. 

 

 

[Texsox]

6 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

Speak for yourself. I'm just here to watch the wreckage burn, at this point. I am only watching tonight hoping they break the record. f*** this team and their scumbag loser of an owner.

But you're here and you're watching. Would you spend your time and money at a movie you know is bad or a TV show that pisses you off? 

[Paulie4Pres]

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

But you're here and you're watching. Would you spend your time and money at a movie you know is bad or a TV show that pisses you off? 

First time I've turned them on in ages. Assuming they lose, probably the last time for the foreseeable future. 

[Texsox]

2 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

First time I've turned them on in ages. Assuming they lose, probably the last time for the foreseeable future. 

I certainly got my money's worth from my free MLB package. Thank you T Mobile. 

[southsider2k5]

Any real behavioral economist would tell you most of your decision making is irrational anyways.

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Probably a bunch of things

Being tied to a specific location that you call home and/or have pride for. I'll die a Sox fan even though I moved from IL to NC.

Nostalgia/memories growing up. Going to games with your dad as a kid, getting autographs, playing backyard ball with friends and imitating your favorite players, etc.

You can pick a new team but you don't have a lifelong history invested with them. 

 

Very true and on point.

[bobbydanks]

Having loyalty to things that are incapable of having loyalty back to you is a crazy concept that if I had loyalty to any philosopher i'd probably quote their wrong opinion about it instead of having my own. 

[TaylorStSox]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

This is wrong on a lot of levels.

- I have a closer relationship with my dad because of sports. It’s something we can always talk about with each other. I have many friends who aren’t as close with their fathers as I am, because they don’t seem to have a lot to talk about. I also have really good memories with him around 2005 and the Hawks Stanley Cup run. 
 

- I’ve been in a fantasy football league with 11 guys I went to high school with. I probably wouldn’t be in contact with probably 8 of those guys at this point in my life, but the fantasy league keeps us in touch and the main reason we’ve kept it going all these years. 
 

- I’ve won a good deal of money from said fantasy league, because I stay up on the NFL, so there literally is an ROI associated with that

- Sports are communal. When the Hawks went through their from 2010-2015, the city was buzzing, especially during the playoffs. It was awesome going to the bars to watch those games with a packed house and everyone invested. It also brings us together. The country is incredibly divided politically where everyone thinks the other side is the “enemy.” But when you’re the fan of the same team, that stuff goes away and you’re on the same side/team. 
 

- The actual payoff to your team winning can’t be matched by much. The Blackhawks went through a huge sexual assault scandal and it turned me off of the team for a while. But the memories I have of celebrating those cup wins didn’t change. Same with the 2005 White Sox. It became clear over time that team had a horseshoe up its collective ass given their lack of success in future seasons, but that doesn’t change the way I celebrated with friends and family in 2005. 
 

I could keep going, but yeah…you’re wrong

The communal benefits have nothing to do with a tangible ROI. Sports owe you nothing and your loyalty to a specific entity owes you nothing. By nature, following sports and expecting a return is objectively irrational and stupid.

Edited yesterday at 04:03 AM by TaylorStSox

[dohnut]

8 hours ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Probably a bunch of things

Being tied to a specific location that you call home and/or have pride for. I'll die a Sox fan even though I moved from IL to NC.

Nostalgia/memories growing up. Going to games with your dad as a kid, getting autographs, playing backyard ball with friends and imitating your favorite players, etc.

You can pick a new team but you don't have a lifelong history invested with them. 

 

Yep, this - and said better than I could.

I'm in Texas now, an hour away from the home park of a team that has been good for a decade - and has 2 World Series wins (and 2 other appearances) to show for it.

I won't be a fan, though - (other than the cheating), I have no history and no connection to it. Chicago is home and the Sox are my team.

Edited yesterday at 06:30 AM by dohnut

[Chimpton]

I think part of the problem is that a sporting team isn't really a 'brand', I know I am looking at it from a British point of view but sporting teams aren't seen as a brand here. More and more owners are seeing it as a brand and supporters are merely 'customers' and all that matters is the money the 'brand' can generate.

The idea that a team or 'franchise' can up sticks and move to another city is totally alien to us, but gradually owners who are only interested in money are trying to break that geographical identity, trying to play games around the world to generate more revenue, in Spain they have certain football games start late into the night to suit the Asian TV audience. But part of what makes football 'soccer' amazing to watch at times is the passion of the fans, and that is lost if the audience is just there to watch a 'product' like a show or a concert.

What these owners don't realise is that by treating sports teams as a brand they will eventually destroy the fanbase that should be the lifeblood of any team. How can any 'franchise' moving to a new city keep its old fanbase or create a new loyal fanbase? If the team is successful people will watch but once they start to lose the audience will disappear, and once that starts to happen the owners will be looking for a new city to move to. Even now the younger generation often support a player not a team and their loyalty will move with that player, anything that expands this will be detrimental to sports teams in the long run.

Maybe I am old fashioned or it is just a British cultural thing but a sports team is not the same as a brand and never will be. Anyway rant over!

[TaylorStSox]

25 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

I think part of the problem is that a sporting team isn't really a 'brand', I know I am looking at it from a British point of view but sporting teams aren't seen as a brand here. More and more owners are seeing it as a brand and supporters are merely 'customers' and all that matters is the money the 'brand' can generate.

The idea that a team or 'franchise' can up sticks and move to another city is totally alien to us, but gradually owners who are only interested in money are trying to break that geographical identity, trying to play games around the world to generate more revenue, in Spain they have certain football games start late into the night to suit the Asian TV audience. But part of what makes football 'soccer' amazing to watch at times is the passion of the fans, and that is lost if the audience is just there to watch a 'product' like a show or a concert.

What these owners don't realise is that by treating sports teams as a brand they will eventually destroy the fanbase that should be the lifeblood of any team. How can any 'franchise' moving to a new city keep its old fanbase or create a new loyal fanbase? If the team is successful people will watch but once they start to lose the audience will disappear, and once that starts to happen the owners will be looking for a new city to move to. Even now the younger generation often support a player not a team and their loyalty will move with that player, anything that expands this will be detrimental to sports teams in the long run.

Maybe I am old fashioned or it is just a British cultural thing but a sports team is not the same as a brand and never will be. Anyway rant over!

It's easier for football/soccer fans to remain invested because relegation is a genius system. Even when your club is down, there's a still a tangible goal. It keeps fans interested and ensures nearly all matches matter. With that said, MLB teams don't move often and the chances that the Sox actually move are slim to none. Even when the Sox are terrible, they remain profitable due to outstanding branding, a world class city and a loyal, albeit bitter fan base. We're not the Cubs, but we're also not the A's.

Edited yesterday at 07:09 AM by TaylorStSox

[Chimpton]

7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

It's easier for football/soccer fans to remain invested because relegation is a genius system. Even when your club is down, there's a still a tangible goal. It keeps fans interested and ensures nearly all matches matter. With that said, MLB teams don't move often and the chances that the Sox actually move are slim to none. Even when the Sox are terrible, they remain profitable due to outstanding branding, a world class city and a loyal, albeit bitter fan base. We're not the Cubs, but we're also not the A's.

Relegation and promotion is an essential part of football, but owners are trying to do away with it because they don't want to lose their place at the top table. That was what motivated the European Super League idea.

And you are right a hard core of fans will remain loyal no matter how bad the team gets. In fact it is almost seen as a badge of honour that you were there in the bad times when the good times hopefully return. Fans may moan and criticise their team and even boo sometimes, but that is only because they care so much. Those that don't care just switch off their support or move it to another team or sport.

[Timmy U]

13 hours ago, Texsox said:

There are a few current companies that I'm pretty loyal to. Titleist, Patagonia, USAA, and DeWalt come to mind. If any of them performed like the Sox, I'd ditch them in a heartbeat. 

I've "tried on" four MLB baseball teams the past couple seasons and it just isn't authentic. So what do sports teams do to create such customer loyalty that other businesses can't? 

 

 

My Dad didn't take me to my first DeWalt drill. End of story.

[WhiteSox2023]

19 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

My Dad didn't take me to my first DeWalt drill. End of story.

Did your friends ever take you to an adult entertainment club for your 18th birthday?  Some clubs are better than others.  Some are chains with multiple locations while others may only be a single location.  They also have branding for their names.  They sell “entertainment” and some clubs have higher quality entertainment than others.

The White Sox provide sports as a form of entertainment instead.

Edited yesterday at 12:35 PM by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

My Dad didn't take me to my first DeWalt drill. End of story.

Lots of examples outside of Gran Torino of fathers/grandfathers passing their tools down…Stanley, for example.