46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 6 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices And yet still would have lost 110 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 5 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices So far the Yankees have paid Rodon over $50 million for 1.1 rWAR/1.6 fWAR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: So far the Yankees have paid Rodon over $50 million for 1.1 rWAR/1.6 fWAR. Yeah but he’s still a guy you’d put on the bump in a playoff situation. And with the other four, this fictional staff would have combined on 21 WAR which I would think would still qualify as slightly above average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: And yet still would have lost 110 games. Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 1 minute ago, 46DidIt said: Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it They could have retained that staff while jettisoning the likes of Eloy, Robert and Moncada, probably receiving useful pieces in return, while opening up payroll for further acquisitions, but instead chose the inverse. The Sox could have signed Rodon and Lopez to more favorable extensions had they extended them reasonable offers in a timely fashion imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 4 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: Yeah but he’s still a guy you’d put on the bump in a playoff situation. And with the other four, this fictional staff would have combined on 21 WAR which I would think would still qualify as slightly above average But if you notice the other teams, “a guy you put on the bump in a playoff situation” really ain’t that important any more. We just saw what happened when the current best pitcher on the planet tried to face guys a third time through the order on Saturday. In terms of pitching WAR, the top 13 this season were Atlanta, Philly, Kansas City, San Diego, Minnesota, Washington, Cincinnati, Detroit, Seattle, Baltimore, Boston, St Louis, Pittsburgh. Notice anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 7 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it And if you put together a rebuild, you don't presumably put a washed up manager 10 years out of the game to go behind it, but here we are. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: But if you notice the other teams, “a guy you put on the bump in a playoff situation” really ain’t that important any more. Is that why they only sign them to 25+ million per year 14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: In terms of pitching WAR, the top 13 this season were Atlanta, Philly, Kansas City, San Diego, Minnesota, Washington, Cincinnati, Detroit, Seattle, Baltimore, Boston, St Louis, Pittsburgh. Notice anything? First, I noticed that you flipped it from the value of starting pitching which we were discussing to just pitching. Second, I noticed that your list is inaccurate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And if you put together a rebuild, you don't presumably put a washed up manager 10 years out of the game to go behind it, but here we are. Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducksnort Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 43 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it Key word: presumably Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said: Key word: presumably Ok, you guys have convinced me. Bad decisions didn’t lead to the Sox being the worst team in sports, and one of them wasn’t paying more for three evidently baseball stupid guys who absolutely sucked balls than for a full rotation pitchers who could have been easily retained that were able to accumulate 21 WAR in a single season. I now see why you reject my premises with your stellar points Edited October 15 by 46DidIt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 13 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: Ok, you guys have convinced me. Bad decisions didn’t lead to the Sox being the worst team in sports, and one of them wasn’t paying more for three evidently baseball stupid guys who absolutely sucked balls than for a full rotation pitchers who could have been easily retained that were able to accumulate 21 WAR in a single season. I now see why you reject my premises with your stellar points I mean yeah, it's a thought, but Rodon never wanted an extension here as a Boras guy. He wanted to hit free agency and strike it rich, which is exactly what he did. Unless we were willing to out bid the market, he wasn't going to extend here any longer than he had to. He was never going to be "easily retained". He was always going to the highest bidder which was never going to be the Sox, and honestly when a guy has that injury history, I can't blame them for that one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 The most additional benefit Sox could have expected out of Rodon was a draft pick from the QO they didn’t issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, 46DidIt said: The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices Not saying they made the right choices but the rotation wasn’t even the issue this past season. They just couldn’t hit. They could have had a rotation of 5 Randy Johnson’s and still wouldn’t have been good because they can’t hit at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 3 hours ago, 46DidIt said: The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices Nah, no way JR pays Rodon and Lopez the contracts they signed. They'd both be elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, 46DidIt said: First, I noticed that you flipped it from the value of starting pitching which we were discussing to just pitching. Second, I noticed that your list is inaccurate First of all, ok, I'm not perfect I did this on my phone, but double checking now I can't tell which one I missed. Which did I miss? Anyway, here's the list for starters only: Atlanta, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Seattle, San Diego, Detroit, Washington, Baltimore, Minnesota, Houston, Boston, Cincinnati. No team in the top 12 in WAR from their starters is still alive in the playoffs. 3 of the teams in the bottom 12 in WAR from their starters are still alive in the playoffs. It looks like good starting pitching helps you get to the playoffs, but really doesn't matter at all if you get there. It's also no guarantee, as teams like Seattle and Washington got a lot from their starters but missed the playoffs, while ATL barely squeaked in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) Yet the current Getz philosophy is presumably based on a starting pitching, fundamentals and defense-centric team approach. Except our two best defenders are getting traded (Robert) or can't hit enough to justify a starting spot (Fletcher). And fundamentals poor due to? Hmmm...how can this go wrong? Edited October 15 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 (edited) I agree that Crochet should be dealt because he won’t be in the window of the Sox being competitive. I still fear what Getz trades him for. Edited October 16 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 3 hours ago, Balta1701 said: First of all, ok, I'm not perfect I did this on my phone, but double checking now I can't tell which one I missed. Which did I miss? Anyway, here's the list for starters only: Atlanta, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Seattle, San Diego, Detroit, Washington, Baltimore, Minnesota, Houston, Boston, Cincinnati. No team in the top 12 in WAR from their starters is still alive in the playoffs. 3 of the teams in the bottom 12 in WAR from their starters are still alive in the playoffs. It looks like good starting pitching helps you get to the playoffs, but really doesn't matter at all if you get there. It's also no guarantee, as teams like Seattle and Washington got a lot from their starters but missed the playoffs, while ATL barely squeaked in. And yet, one starting pitcher standing out in the postseason is a big reason why teams have recently won World Series titles. Guys like Bumgarner, Verlander, Strasburg, and Montgomery last year come to mind.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 "Good pitching stops good hitting" err, wait, what's the new saying according to WAR ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 25 Share Posted October 25 On 10/15/2024 at 5:57 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: I agree that Crochet should be dealt because he won’t be in the window of the Sox being competitive. I still fear what Getz trades him for. Maybe you can remind me when a competitive window is starting and define "competitive" to me please. It's easy to say things when what you say can't be defined but only guessed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 25 Share Posted October 25 18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Maybe you can remind me when a competitive window is starting and define "competitive" to me please. It's easy to say things when what you say can't be defined but only guessed . Not during the 2 years of his control that’s for sure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted October 25 Share Posted October 25 17 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: Not during the 2 years of his control that’s for sure. That's the easy answer but if you're talking about trading vs. attempting to extend him he's still pretty young. One high quality starting pitcher gets you closer to competitive quicker especially when starting pitching and any prospects converted to RP might be your only strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 25 Share Posted October 25 27 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: That's the easy answer but if you're talking about trading vs. attempting to extend him he's still pretty young. One high quality starting pitcher gets you closer to competitive quicker especially when starting pitching and any prospects converted to RP might be your only strength. Yeah but the White Sox also have invested heavily in starters through the draft and if they have 2 strong pitchers in Smith and Schulz, followed by someone like Martin at the middle part of the rotation, and maybe a guy like Cannon can hang in the back of the rotation, that's a lot of resources already putting into pitching. They also might have enough arms to fill out a decent chunk of a bullpen. On the other hand, their offense is currently terrible, one of the worst we've ever seen, and they don't have much in terms of MLB-ready players. One catcher, maybe 1 or 2 infielders. If they dump $30 million into an extra starter, and they have nothing to trade, how do they ever stop having an awful offense? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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