Crochet open to extension...

[46DidIt]

The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

6 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices

And yet still would have lost 110 games.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices

So far the Yankees have paid Rodon over $50 million for 1.1 rWAR/1.6 fWAR.

[46DidIt]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So far the Yankees have paid Rodon over $50 million for 1.1 rWAR/1.6 fWAR.

Yeah but he’s still a guy you’d put on the bump in a playoff situation. And with the other four, this fictional staff would have combined on 21 WAR which I would think would still qualify as slightly above average

[46DidIt]

8 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

And yet still would have lost 110 games.

Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it

[46DidIt]

1 minute ago, 46DidIt said:

Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it

They could have retained that staff while jettisoning the likes of Eloy, Robert and Moncada, probably receiving useful pieces in return, while opening up payroll for further acquisitions, but instead chose the inverse. The Sox could have signed Rodon and Lopez to more favorable extensions had they extended them reasonable offers in a timely fashion imo

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Yeah but he’s still a guy you’d put on the bump in a playoff situation. And with the other four, this fictional staff would have combined on 21 WAR which I would think would still qualify as slightly above average

But if you notice the other teams, “a guy you put on the bump in a playoff situation” really ain’t that important any more. We just saw what happened when the current best pitcher on the planet tried to face guys a third time through the order on Saturday. 

In terms of pitching WAR, the top 13 this season were Atlanta, Philly, Kansas City, San Diego, Minnesota, Washington, Cincinnati, Detroit, Seattle, Baltimore, Boston, St Louis, Pittsburgh. Notice anything? 

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it

And if you put together a rebuild, you don't presumably put a washed up manager 10 years out of the game to go behind it, but here we are.

[46DidIt]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But if you notice the other teams, “a guy you put on the bump in a playoff situation” really ain’t that important any more. 

Is that why they only sign them to 25+ million per year

 

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

In terms of pitching WAR, the top 13 this season were Atlanta, Philly, Kansas City, San Diego, Minnesota, Washington, Cincinnati, Detroit, Seattle, Baltimore, Boston, St Louis, Pittsburgh. Notice anything? 

First, I noticed that you flipped it from the value of starting pitching which we were discussing to just pitching. Second, I noticed that your list is inaccurate

[46DidIt]

27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And if you put together a rebuild, you don't presumably put a washed up manager 10 years out of the game to go behind it, but here we are.

Yep

[ScootsMcGoots]

43 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Well if you had that staff in place, you presumably don’t put together the worst lineup imaginable to go behind it

Key word: presumably

[46DidIt]

26 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

Key word: presumably

Ok, you guys have convinced me. Bad decisions didn’t lead to the Sox being the worst team in sports, and one of them wasn’t paying more for three evidently baseball stupid guys who absolutely sucked balls than for a full rotation pitchers who could have been easily retained that were able to accumulate 21 WAR in a single season. I now see why you reject my premises with your stellar points

Edited Tuesday at 07:55 PM by 46DidIt

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Ok, you guys have convinced me. Bad decisions didn’t lead to the Sox being the worst team in sports, and one of them wasn’t paying more for three evidently baseball stupid guys who absolutely sucked balls than for a full rotation pitchers who could have been easily retained that were able to accumulate 21 WAR in a single season. I now see why you reject my premises with your stellar points

I mean yeah, it's a thought, but Rodon never wanted an extension here as a Boras guy.  He wanted to hit free agency and strike it rich, which is exactly what he did.  Unless we were willing to out bid the market, he wasn't going to extend here any longer than he had to.  He was never going to be "easily retained".  He was always going to the highest bidder which was never going to be the Sox, and honestly when a guy has that injury history, I can't blame them for that one.

[JoeC]

The most additional benefit Sox could have expected out of Rodon was a draft pick from the QO they didn’t issue.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

2 hours ago, 46DidIt said:

The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices

Not saying they made the right choices but the rotation wasn’t even the issue this past season. They just couldn’t hit. They could have had a rotation of 5 Randy Johnson’s and still wouldn’t have been good because they can’t hit at all.

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, 46DidIt said:

The sox could have easily had rotation of Rodon, Cease, Lopez, Crochet and Fedde this year had they made better choices

Nah, no way JR pays Rodon and Lopez the contracts they signed. They'd both be elsewhere.

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, 46DidIt said:

First, I noticed that you flipped it from the value of starting pitching which we were discussing to just pitching. Second, I noticed that your list is inaccurate

First of all, ok, I'm not perfect I did this on my phone, but double checking now I can't tell which one I missed. Which did I miss?

Anyway, here's the list for starters only:

Atlanta, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Seattle, San Diego, Detroit, Washington, Baltimore, Minnesota, Houston, Boston, Cincinnati. No team in the top 12 in WAR from their starters is still alive in the playoffs. 3 of the teams in the bottom 12 in WAR from their starters are still alive in the playoffs. 

It looks like good starting pitching helps you get to the playoffs, but really doesn't matter at all if you get there. It's also no guarantee, as teams like Seattle and Washington got a lot from their starters but missed the playoffs, while ATL barely squeaked in.

[caulfield12]

Yet the current Getz philosophy is presumably based on a starting  pitching, fundamentals and defense-centric team approach.

Except our two best defenders are getting traded (Robert) or can't hit enough to justify a starting spot (Fletcher).

And fundamentals poor due to?

Hmmm...how can this go wrong?

Edited Tuesday at 11:07 PM by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

I agree that Crochet should be dealt because he won’t be in the window of the Sox being competitive.  I still fear what Getz trades him for.

Edited Wednesday at 12:58 AM by WhiteSox2023

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

First of all, ok, I'm not perfect I did this on my phone, but double checking now I can't tell which one I missed. Which did I miss?

Anyway, here's the list for starters only:

Atlanta, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Seattle, San Diego, Detroit, Washington, Baltimore, Minnesota, Houston, Boston, Cincinnati. No team in the top 12 in WAR from their starters is still alive in the playoffs. 3 of the teams in the bottom 12 in WAR from their starters are still alive in the playoffs. 

It looks like good starting pitching helps you get to the playoffs, but really doesn't matter at all if you get there. It's also no guarantee, as teams like Seattle and Washington got a lot from their starters but missed the playoffs, while ATL barely squeaked in.

And yet, one starting pitcher standing out in the postseason is a big reason why teams have recently won World Series titles. Guys like Bumgarner, Verlander, Strasburg, and Montgomery last year come to mind..

[Falstaff]

"Good pitching stops good hitting" err, wait, what's the new saying according to WAR ?