Getz asks for "patience"...

[kitekrazy]

27 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If Robert could be parked in the 6-slot of a good lineup, he could rework his approach and rebuild his confidence. That can't happen here during his contract period. He will be the man for the next 2 years, here, and he'll feel compelled to "produce". 

Sometimes other quality players compliment other players in the lineup.  You can one stud hitter and all a pitcher has to do is put them on base.

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Obviously trading Crochet is gonna suck but if he can get rid of the rest of the dead weight (Moncada, Benintendi, Robert, Sheets) it could be a very good off season.  

Only to get more dead weight.  See Vargas. 

Your most valuable trade piece was Fedde and look what they got. 

Trading good to get better down the road is a myth for this organization.  They can't identify and develop talent so what makes you think they can to do with other team's prospects.  Then you have to look how much a good prospect will unlearn when they get in the Sox farm system.   The Sox are decent with pitching prospects but those guys only work 5 days a week.

I think most teams are stingy with their prospects.  You look at all of the injuries in baseball and you need to bring up a not ready yet player who hopefully wont make things worse.

I'm not sure how one would call a good offseason unless you are into #MakeBirminghamBetter

I think they will have another chance to break their own record.

Sizemore is the perfect guy because he is happy to work in baseball.

[Boopa1219]

I’m not going to hold Getz accountable for what Jerry said. It’s clear and it’s been clear for a while that somehow Getz was able to sell Jerry his vision of a complete tear down, rebuild and overhaul of the org. This is not the same as 2016. I do wonder what the reception around the Sox would be if Getz came out and said from his initial press conference that this is a rebuild, I think it’s slightly better 

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

If there was a guy out there that made bad hitters good hitters, he wouldn't be available to the White Sox.  It just amazes me how, since Hriniak left, the organization as a whole, despite seeing how their best performers operated, haven't emphasized working counts. You look at the better hitter from the JR era, they almost all took their

walks. And weren't constantly down in the count. It's pretty simple. Make the pitcher throw you strikes.

Unfortunately those people don't last forever.

TLR's success was also he brought certain coaches with him.

Katz is well liked because he is int analytics, but isn't basically every pitching coach like that?  Do you trust him with the upcoming arms.   The funniest thing I heard was getting Fedde's pitching coach from Korea.

Another one was put an ad in the paper Wanted the best hitting coach.

[kitekrazy]

Does a fan have that kind of patience?  Maybe 5 years?  They could be like the Royals and have 2 years of success surrounded by s%*#.

Rebuilds don't always work compared to retooling. Short success vs. sustained success.  Imagine if Getz were in charge of these other small market teams, what players would be traded.  That's a fearful thing.

[Bananarchy]

4 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Does a fan have that kind of patience?  Maybe 5 years?  They could be like the Royals and have 2 years of success surrounded by s%*#.

Rebuilds don't always work compared to retooling. Short success vs. sustained success.  Imagine if Getz were in charge of these other small market teams, what players would be traded.  That's a fearful thing.

This thing all feels dead. There's going to be bad while simultaneously wanting a new stadium. That spells trouble to me.

[kitekrazy]

So lemme get this straight.  With the "Cinderella teams" that lost 100 games and go to the post season next year, Mr. Reinsdorf you decided after 2 100 loss seasons you are planning a 3rd one. s%*# organization you're running their Jerry.

There are not enough middle fingers or F Yous to salute you.

I don't think I can ever support a Reinsdorf team again.

All of the bulls on the planet can't create the amount of bullshit you have created. You love baseball?  It's like the guy who beats the crap out of his wife and says he still loves her,

Too bad Bud Light doesn't do their real men of genius radio commercials. He could be a good one.

Sox fans need to stop fantasizing bring up the Orioles. THEY ARE NOT THE FRICKEN ORIOLES.

Hopefully I've said my peace.

 

 

[FloydBannister1983]

23 hours ago, Rusty said:

Admittedly I haven’t even read the article yet but…there’s no way this fucking guy is that tone deaf right?  The fucking owner said they didn’t go through an actual search or interview process to lead a multi-billion dollar organization because they didn’t want to waste any time.  The guy that was gifted a GM job that he is completely underqualified for and seemingly incompetent at performing was previously in charge of the development system that has completely failed with almost every top prospect.  Not they want “patience”?  Go f*** yourself Chris.

Wrong.  He is that tone deaf.

[FloydBannister1983]

13 hours ago, wegner said:

I waver between A & C depending on the day.

They are too much in my blood to do B.

I’m between B and C.  Like Dracula they have sucked whatever blood was in me.  I continue to love the camaraderie here on Soxtalk , though.

[FloydBannister1983]

13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Your gimmick is old and lame.  You try to blame everyone but the real problem.  I’m not the reason the Sox suck.  Jerry and Getz are.  They are the reason you have to spend all your time hyping up Sox prospects and ridiculously ripping on much better GMs and teams like Elias and the Orioles.  Because there is nothing about this team to be positive about.  Aim your anger and frustrations at the correct targets for once.

I also like how the best defense of Getz is “it’s just baseball, who cares if he sucks, you guys take sports too seriously!”

No, he’s terrible at his job.  The best Sox employee is a mysterious marketing person likely earning around $40K.  That’s just sad.

 

This was the guy who, just last night, was telling us it is impossible to enjoy baseball unless your team wins the World Series.  Seems to be a completely different take today.  Maybe he sobered up.

[ewokpelts]

11 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

So lemme get this straight.  With the "Cinderella teams" that lost 100 games and go to the post season next year, Mr. Reinsdorf you decided after 2 100 loss seasons you are planning a 3rd one. s%*# organization you're running their Jerry.

There are not enough middle fingers or F Yous to salute you.

I don't think I can ever support a Reinsdorf team again.

All of the bulls on the planet can't create the amount of bullshit you have created. You love baseball?  It's like the guy who beats the crap out of his wife and says he still loves her,

Too bad Bud Light doesn't do their real men of genius radio commercials. He could be a good one.

Sox fans need to stop fantasizing bring up the Orioles. THEY ARE NOT THE FRICKEN ORIOLES.

Hopefully I've said my peace.

 

 

It was stupid on Facebook, and it was stupid here. 

[GreatScott82]

21 hours ago, nitetrain8601 said:

Even if they are able to put together the hitting "lab" as you say, they don't have the horses to run the race. They are awful at development of hitters, but also of identifying hitters, investing in FA or draft for hitters, investing in find hitting all over the world.

 

If this team was at least run like KC, that would be a huge upgrade. Even they realized they had some work to do. Sox knew they weren't getting a top 10 pick this year, so what do they do knowing that? They draft another lefty pitcher when they knew they have to invest in hitting desperately.

All solid points. Identifying talent has always been a major issue with this team. Mostly because of the lack of investment the team puts into scouting. (Yet another Jerry issue) And when they do finally get a blue chip quality prospect/ player- they usually end up disappointing. My guess it’s because of their out dated approach with these players down in the minor leagues. I was also shocked when they drafted Hagen Smith when there were still multiple notable bats in the board. If I had to guess why they did this, it’s likely because of their endless shortcomings for developing position players/hitters. Their approach is likely to overload the system with pitching, and eventually trade some of the pitching capital for position players. Since many other organizations know how to develop hitters and the Sox can’t,  they’ll likely bank on this approach.
If I had to guess, Garrett Crochet will be traded for 2 position players this winter to continue that process. We saw what Getz got in return for Cease and Fedde, let’s hope he doesn’t get fleeced once again. Crochet is the best piece he will likely have to deal over the next 2-3 seasons. He can’t afford to screw it up. 
 We all know this organization needs a complete overhaul, not just the “hitting lab” like I suggested before. We likely won’t see that happen until Jerry leaves for good. So until that day happens, we’re all just stuck in the mud watching the whimsical decisions of an 89 year old bored narcissist billionaire. 

Edited September 29 by GreatScott82

[Chick Mercedes]

On 9/27/2024 at 11:26 PM, TaylorStSox said:

Nothing Getz says actually matters. The only thing that matters is what he does moving forward. The odds are against him, but I wish him the best. I just don't get the vitriol towards him. It's not like he's doing this on purpose. As I always say, sports are dumb, and the mean spiritedness heading his way is ridiculous. 

Getz is what he is. But Reinsdorf set him up as the quick turnaround guy, and stood him up as the alternative to a more talented outside man. Therefore Getz is gonna take all the heat possible for Reinsdorf for repeatedly inflicting mediocrity into Chicago, and if you’re not getting it, you’re part of the problem.

[baseball_gal_aly]

18 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

I’m not going to hold Getz accountable for what Jerry said. It’s clear and it’s been clear for a while that somehow Getz was able to sell Jerry his vision of a complete tear down, rebuild and overhaul of the org. This is not the same as 2016. I do wonder what the reception around the Sox would be if Getz came out and said from his initial press conference that this is a rebuild, I think it’s slightly better 

I'm going to disagree about this, because in 2016 the Sox had Sale, Quintana, and Eaton to trade and the trade market wasn't dead. Now the trade market is dead, if the Sox trade Crochet they're liable to get a similar return to Cease which doesn't really move the needle that much. The Sox are loaded with pitching in the minors, they need position players badly, as there is not much beyond Quero and maybe Montgomery. Furthermore, Getz's choices for centerpieces are questionable at best with Thorpe and Vargas. And questionable is putting it nicely. 

This is a long, hard road and it might take 3 more years just to not lose 100 games/season. 

Edited September 29 by baseball_gal_aly

[Dick Allen]

19 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

Does a fan have that kind of patience?  Maybe 5 years?  They could be like the Royals and have 2 years of success surrounded by s%*#.

Rebuilds don't always work compared to retooling. Short success vs. sustained success.  Imagine if Getz were in charge of these other small market teams, what players would be traded.  That's a fearful thing.

The one thing the Sox didn’t do that all the other teams that had successful gut rebuilds did, was clean house before it began. jR kept the dopes in place that got them into that situation. Now, at least there has been some change, but certainly not enough.  That’s why I have come around to the Sox can’t have sustainable success until JR is gone side. I’m hoping he comes out with something where he is selling, yeah right. Or maybe he can give his control to someone else.

[WestEddy]

On 9/28/2024 at 9:45 AM, FT35 said:

This is like the captain of the Titanic thinking the very best—THE wisest way to keep the ship from sinking again would be to circle around and hit the same iceberg.   I’m not sure what he should say—but nothing close to what he said would be my vote.

I'm really curious what you think the speech the Captain of the Titanic should be giving as it disappears into the water - looks like. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 9/28/2024 at 4:16 AM, Texsox said:

Thankfully he didn't ask for money or time. Most fans have turned them down for that. 

What are the choices? 

A. Stay a fan and be angry all the time. 

B. Drop them and find another team. 

C. Ignore them for a couple seasons (be patient) until something with getting excited happens. JR moves on for example. 

 

 

There are likely many more casual fans than there are die hards. I qualify as a diehard but with a semi casual outlook.

Sure I constantly bust JRs chops as an owner but  not very overly critical of his puppets.Nothing I write changes anything.i just try to give a balanced perspective that is not welcome among the rabid pitchfork carrying crowd . Diehards are the vocal minority.

People go to games as a family outing including their dogs on dog days. They want to root root root for the White Sox . They show up to get bobbleheads and Hawaiian shirts. Drunken loudmouth fans who take things too seriously ruin it for everyone else like with the fights that break out between Sox and Cubs fans . It's supposed to be a place to bring your kids without worrying about their safety to enjoy the fresh air sunshine and a beautiful green pasture where young men play a game that is both extremely cerebral and physical.

JR has never understood that it's a game that requires the young to get great coaching to guide them to success by teaching them that failure and making adjustments to your failures is the key to improvement. If you want consistent success at the major League levels you have to devote money, people machines and into the youth and its ultimately less expensive than making mistake after mistake in the lower to middle FA market that are inherent dealing in that level.

My point is I think you can stay a fan, even a diehard, without being angry. The only skin I have in the game is my fandom and any entertainment dollars I put into it. If it saddens ,angers or frustrates me I take a step back and do something that gives me more enjoyment. I still absorb all things White Sox. I just observe and report. If you listen at all to Vinnie Duber on the CHGO podcasts he's the beat reporter who is the voice of reason providing balance to the more passionate members who wear their fan emotions on their sleeves . I liken my fandom to him, a Sox fan doing his best to report accurately and fairly and leave my emotions out of it. I take the fanatic out of being a fan. I guess that's what would be defined as dispassionate at least when things are going bad because that's the majority of the time for every sports fan if championships are your barometer for true happiness.

 

[WestEddy]

On 9/28/2024 at 11:12 AM, Dick Allen said:

If there was a guy out there that made bad hitters good hitters, he wouldn't be available to the White Sox.

Sure he would be. We pried Brian Bannister away from the Giants pretty easily. There's hundreds of guys who are 2nd in command, or run college hitting programs who are tapped into the latest thinking and tech. There's only 30 of those jobs in the bigs. Even the Sox are a huge stepping stone to burnishing one's resume. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

26 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Sure he would be. We pried Brian Bannister away from the Giants pretty easily. There's hundreds of guys who are 2nd in command, or run college hitting programs who are tapped into the latest thinking and tech. There's only 30 of those jobs in the bigs. Even the Sox are a huge stepping stone to burnishing one's resume. 

It's the hiring process when it comes to analytics , scouting and coaching that worries me. A GM like Getz has limited knowledge of what makes a good scout or how to build a good analytics program that the coaches can use to teach players.

A smart guy understands his limitations and seeks to educate himself on building the infrastructure needed to support the cheap labor that comes from a well oiled farm system. Can Getz be that guy and is JR really on board with it or just stalling so he can put less money into a team that will be sold once he dies ?

You need a blend of young coaches into analytics able to use the latest computer tech and older more experienced coaches willing to learn it . You need a baseball, analytics and tech expert who is able to dumb the process down so the players and coaches can use and understand it and demonstrate how helpful it can be.

At its best I would imagine it to be a classroom and hands on learning experience  (Spanish and English ) with open minded bilingual players and coaches giving the players an education once the coaches at all levels are fully integrated with the analytics people. But it's still not the end all be all. It's just one more option  to improve your baseball mind and body and coach you to succeed.

Edited September 29 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WestEddy]

26 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's the hiring process when it comes to analytics , scouting and coaching that worries me. A GM like Getz has limited knowledge of what makes a good scout or how to build a good analytics program that the coaches can use to teach players.

A smart guy understands his limitations and seeks to educate himself on building the infrastructure needed to support the cheap labor that comes from a well oiled farm system. Can Getz be that guy and is JR really on board with it or just stalling so he can put less money into a team that will be sold once he dies ?

You need a blend of young coaches into analytics able to use the latest computer tech and older more experienced coaches willing to learn it . You need a baseball, analytics and tech expert who is able to dumb the process down so the players and coaches can use and understand it and demonstrate how helpful it can be.

At its best I would imagine it to be a classroom and hands on learning experience  (Spanish and English ) with open minded bilingual players and coaches giving the players an education once the coaches at all levels are fully integrated with the analytics people. But it's still not the end all be all. It's just one more option  to improve your baseball mind and body and coach you to succeed.

I'd be happy for JR to "save money" by plowing half of what he'd pay the Chris Flexen version of a shortstop into a Trajekt machine, or to invest the $3 million Joey Gallo might need to play half a season - into their stats department and scouting. 

Katz seems to be able to do a lot with a little. I just wonder if Marcus Thames is the same, and that process is just slower with hitters. 

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The one thing the Sox didn’t do that all the other teams that had successful gut rebuilds did, was clean house before it began. jR kept the dopes in place that got them into that situation. Now, at least there has been some change, but certainly not enough.  That’s why I have come around to the Sox can’t have sustainable success until JR is gone side. I’m hoping he comes out with something where he is selling, yeah right. Or maybe he can give his control to someone else.

This was what I was screaming in 2016, especially on WSI, to the “Give Hahn a chance” people. 

[Tomas]

Please just get rid of Getz.  Results should have consequences

[Texsox]

I think there was a mistake. He asked for hospital patients to play for the team. It's a tradition he can't stop.  

[Texsox]

4 minutes ago, Tomas said:

Please just get rid of Getz.  Results should have consequences

And get rid of the next guy when they lose 100 next year. I'm fact plan on three or four one year GMs and managers. 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I'm really curious what you think the speech the Captain of the Titanic should be giving as it disappears into the water - looks like. 

Well men we are bloop bloop bloop....