Dear Sox fans

[Tnetennba]

3 hours ago, bmags said:

I guess I’ll be the contrarian.

I was really upset about the season, but then I read the letter. I’m all in now. They’ve got this.

What is the +this+ to which you refer??

[Tony]

40 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The core problem with JR is he believes he has all the answers. If only he pounds *his way* harder into that round hole, it will work, this time. I also believe the White Sox front office is his gentleman's club, where he goes to smoke cigars and commiserate. He's too old to hire the newest, brightest GM candidate who will clean house, and rebuild the "right" way. He doesn't want to spend his final days not recognizing anybody in the office. 

I see no evidence that Reinsdorf thought Getz would have the Sox competitive in 2024. My take is that JR thought Getz could cut out a year of whatever. 

Using this site as a barometer, I don't think there was any buy-in to Getz making a re-tool go faster. People were commenting that we're 5 years away from a winning record, regardless. Sure, maybe most thought JR believed that, but nobody was reassured by that sentence. 

We're in basic agreement here, as part of the reason there was so much anger about the "not wanting to waste a year" was because the fan base knew this was not an easy fix. 

However, and something you've spent plenty of time arguing with people over, is the entire premise of why Getz is here. Jerry is a lot of things, but he's not a dumb person. He stood in front of the media last season, twice actually (he also held a private, media-selected interview in his office the same day as the press conference) and in both cases, cited the main reason of hiring Getz was not wanting to waste a year, he knew the people in the organization, he knew what needed to be fixed and corrected. He wanted this fixed, but also fast, because he doesn't have a lot of time left to waste, and because Getz had been here, he made the most sense. 

While I don't think Jerry truly thought 2024 would be a team competing for a playoff spot, clearly he didn't think it would go like this, otherwise we don't get two statements from him at the end of the year. 

The frustration from fans comes from the idea that because Chris Getz has worked within the White Sox organization, he automatically has a leg up on any other human that could have assumed this role. No one else on Earth could have accomplished what Chris Getz did in 2024, because he already knew what was broken, as he was already "inside" the building. The hell with interviewing anyone from the outside, or from organizations that have run laps around the White Sox the last decade plus, Chris Getz can fix this thing faster than anyone because he knows the team. And that's why he is assuming the role of GM for the White Sox. That's it. And that's why people won't accept him as deserving of this role. 

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I agree with at least 95% of this. I think most of us feel, unless the Sox do things the exact opposite of what they have been doing, it's just going to be the same. This rebuild was a spectacular failure. Since they lost to Houston in the playoffs, they have averaged over 100 losses a season. That wasn't what we were told was going to happen. I also think people don't trust Getz because he was here and a part of that epic failure. Once JR got the guts to tell RH and KW to scram, he needed to totally clean house. But he didn't. This can't waste a year, wasted a year and more people, who should have been let go with KW and RH, are shown the door. And we know at this stage, there is zero chance JR will change, so once they do, or if they do get to a point where they need to add a couple of pieces to get over the top, it will fail again. It's like Charlie Brown and the football. 

If a new owner took the keys on November 1, 2023, fired everyone down to the peanut vendors, and started over from scratch, I don't believe they would be much further along than now. I think Getz is doing a pretty thorough overhaul. Mike Shirley might be the only guy who deserves to stay. 

I think 2024 had to happen on some level. Hostetler and Paddy didn't keep a steady stream of prospects coming. Maybe Getz didn't develop what he got, or didn't get modern resources. I can't imagine that Hahn/KW were trying to force stats info, hitting and pitching labs and competent coaches on Getz, and he fought to keep all that stuff out of his development program. What seems to be borne out from subsequent events is that Getz wanted modernization, and didn't get it. 

I agree that JR is the problem, but this is the situation that exists. I'm not going to write a scathing comment that makes JR sell. So I prefer to just wait and see what transpires from the conditions that are kind of set in stone right now. 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

Rewatched some Last Dance the other night. JR talking about how he hand picked Crumbs and how genius he knew that move would be really pissed me off in light of the last twenty years of his ownership in Chicago. You got fucking lucky bro. You got stupidly lucky that you had MJ fall into your lap and then Krause had a few magic offseasons (all possible because you had MJ of course) and then after MJ left you went right back to being a perennial bottom feeder until Rose fell into your lap at 1.8%.

JR is so far up his own ass and is now so old and ingrained in his thinking that until he dies or sells nothing will change. He'll keep just hiring guys that suck up to him and hoping he somehow finds another Jordan and Krause.

It ain't gonna happen.

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If a new owner took the keys on November 1, 2023, fired everyone down to the peanut vendors, and started over from scratch, I don't believe they would be much further along than now. I think Getz is doing a pretty thorough overhaul. Mike Shirley might be the only guy who deserves to stay. 

I think 2024 had to happen on some level. Hostetler and Paddy didn't keep a steady stream of prospects coming. Maybe Getz didn't develop what he got, or didn't get modern resources. I can't imagine that Hahn/KW were trying to force stats info, hitting and pitching labs and competent coaches on Getz, and he fought to keep all that stuff out of his development program. What seems to be borne out from subsequent events is that Getz wanted modernization, and didn't get it. 

I agree that JR is the problem, but this is the situation that exists. I'm not going to write a scathing comment that makes JR sell. So I prefer to just wait and see what transpires from the conditions that are kind of set in stone right now. 

 

Maybe not, but I believe the chance of ultimate success would be much higher. We've played this same game for so long. 

[southsider2k5]

You want to get my attention?  How about looking at a proven winner?

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5806379/2024/09/30/sf-giants-farhan-zaidi-fired-buster-posey/

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Nobody believed JR when he said he was hiring Getz to hasten the process. But now that becomes some horrible betrayal. 

So everyone believing him when he lies is much worse than no one believing him when he lies?  I would think the lie is the important thing, not whether or not the recipients of the lie are duped.

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

We're in basic agreement here, as part of the reason there was so much anger about the "not wanting to waste a year" was because the fan base knew this was not an easy fix. 

However, and something you've spent plenty of time arguing with people over, is the entire premise of why Getz is here. Jerry is a lot of things, but he's not a dumb person. He stood in front of the media last season, twice actually (he also held a private, media-selected interview in his office the same day as the press conference) and in both cases, cited the main reason of hiring Getz was not wanting to waste a year, he knew the people in the organization, he knew what needed to be fixed and corrected. He wanted this fixed, but also fast, because he doesn't have a lot of time left to waste, and because Getz had been here, he made the most sense. 

While I don't think Jerry truly thought 2024 would be a team competing for a playoff spot, clearly he didn't think it would go like this, otherwise we don't get two statements from him at the end of the year. 

The frustration from fans comes from the idea that because Chris Getz has worked within the White Sox organization, he automatically has a leg up on any other human that could have assumed this role. No one else on Earth could have accomplished what Chris Getz did in 2024, because he already knew what was broken, as he was already "inside" the building. The hell with interviewing anyone from the outside, or from organizations that have run laps around the White Sox the last decade plus, Chris Getz can fix this thing faster than anyone because he knows the team. And that's why he is assuming the role of GM for the White Sox. That's it. And that's why people won't accept him as deserving of this role. 

I really believe the first paragraph of mine you quoted, and I think I've always believed that. 

I understand people hating the idea of Chris Getz, and not being receptive to a Chris Getz rebuild. Reinsdorf betrayed the fanbase in 94, made an incredibly stupid comment in 97, then groused about the state of the game since then. He should have sold after 2005 and gone out on top, because his attitudes were outdated then. 

Buster Posey was just named President of baseball operations for the Giants after 2 years of being in the ownership group. That's a lot less practical experience than Getz had when gifted his current position. I'm not arguing that Getz was the best person on the planet for that job, but owners do that. 

 

[Dick Allen]

The team lost 121 games. There should be a parade to the door at the White Sox offices with ex-employees holding boxes with their belongings. 

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Maybe not, but I believe the chance of ultimate success would be much higher. We've played this same game for so long. 

Of course, if they fired everyone, hired all the best people, they'd be on a better track for success. 

 

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I really believe the first paragraph of mine you quoted, and I think I've always believed that. 

I understand people hating the idea of Chris Getz, and not being receptive to a Chris Getz rebuild. Reinsdorf betrayed the fanbase in 94, made an incredibly stupid comment in 97, then groused about the state of the game since then. He should have sold after 2005 and gone out on top, because his attitudes were outdated then. 

Buster Posey was just named President of baseball operations for the Giants after 2 years of being in the ownership group. That's a lot less practical experience than Getz had when gifted his current position. I'm not arguing that Getz was the best person on the planet for that job, but owners do that. 

 

The Giants, Buster Posey included, have done a lot more winning in their time together than JR has experienced in his entire time in ownership.

But also, this is not a comparison any of us should want to make.  We were rewarded with our patience with another rebuild with someone less experienced than the prior.  I certainly am not excited because another team took that leap 

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

So everyone believing him when he lies is much worse than no one believing him when he lies?  I would think the lie is the important thing, not whether or not the recipients of the lie are duped.

A more truthful press conference might sound like:

"I'm getting older, and I don't want to not recognize anybody in the front office as I get even older. Therefore, I am going to only hire people I can remember."

I'm not sure that would go over any better. 

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

Of course, if they fired everyone, hired all the best people, they'd be on a better track for success. 

 

They have had people in the organization that have consistently failed for years. The funny thing is, half of their payroll probably even know it. To expect that to suddenly change would be insane. That's why the Dear Sox letter means nothing. He should have either committed to changing his ways, or said he was looking for someone else with a vision to give his control. 

[bmags]

3 minutes ago, Tony said:

We're in basic agreement here, as part of the reason there was so much anger about the "not wanting to waste a year" was because the fan base knew this was not an easy fix. 

However, and something you've spent plenty of time arguing with people over, is the entire premise of why Getz is here. Jerry is a lot of things, but he's not a dumb person. He stood in front of the media last season, twice actually (he also held a private, media-selected interview in his office the same day as the press conference) and in both cases, cited the main reason of hiring Getz was not wanting to waste a year, he knew the people in the organization, he knew what needed to be fixed and corrected. He wanted this fixed, but also fast, because he doesn't have a lot of time left to waste, and because Getz had been here, he made the most sense. 

While I don't think Jerry truly thought 2024 would be a team competing for a playoff spot, clearly he didn't think it would go like this, otherwise we don't get two statements from him at the end of the year. 

The frustration from fans comes from the idea that because Chris Getz has worked within the White Sox organization, he automatically has a leg up on any other human that could have assumed this role. No one else on Earth could have accomplished what Chris Getz did in 2024, because he already knew what was broken, as he was already "inside" the building. The hell with interviewing anyone from the outside, or from organizations that have run laps around the White Sox the last decade plus, Chris Getz can fix this thing faster than anyone because he knows the team. And that's why he is assuming the role of GM for the White Sox. That's it. And that's why people won't accept him as deserving of this role. 

I think it would almost be nicer if Jerry truly was maniacal about winning "his way". It kinda sucks he's just like a neighborhood nimby, powerful enough to tell people no and slow any changes and progress, but not actively building or showing off what the "better way" is even supposed to be.

[WestEddy]

2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The Giants, Buster Posey included, have done a lot more winning in their time together than JR has experienced in his entire time in ownership.

But also, this is not a comparison any of us should want to make.  We were rewarded with our patience with another rebuild with someone less experienced than the prior.  I certainly am not excited because another team took that leap 

I'm not citing Buster Posey like that's a good example that mirrors Chris Getz' ascension. 

I'm not seeing much reaction that calls this a genius move. Aubrey Huff has done a lot of winning, too. 

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They have had people in the organization that have consistently failed for years. The funny thing is, half of their payroll probably even know it. To expect that to suddenly change would be insane. That's why the Dear Sox letter means nothing. He should have either committed to changing his ways, or said he was looking for someone else with a vision to give his control. 

Which is why I don't care about the letter one way or the other, and look forward to these changes he's talking about. 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

I think it would almost be nicer if Jerry truly was maniacal about winning "his way". It kinda sucks he's just like a neighborhood nimby, powerful enough to tell people no and slow any changes and progress, but not actively building or showing off what the "better way" is even supposed to be.

He's old. He's old and has been surrounded by yes men his entire life. Nothing will change until he dies or sells. This is what he has created and it's way, way too late for him to learn new tricks.

[FloydBannister1983]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

A more truthful press conference might sound like:

"I'm getting older, and I don't want to not recognize anybody in the front office as I get even older. Therefore, I am going to only hire people I can remember."

I'm not sure that would go over any better. 

No but there’s a certain amount of decency in being honest with your customers.

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The team lost 121 games. There should be a parade to the door at the White Sox offices with ex-employees holding boxes with their belongings. 

But what could we have done?!?!  We just have to all be happy, and fall in line, and think all happy thoughts.  Soxbots if you will.

[Dick Allen]

2 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Which is why I don't care about the letter one way or the other, and look forward to these changes he's talking about. 

 

We will see. One change I would like made is what happens when these pop ups keep getting fielded like Little League. Someone needed to get into Andrew Vaughns face yesterday and tell him he needs to catch that ball. It happens every week.

[bmags]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's old. He's old and has been surrounded by yes men his entire life. Nothing will change until he dies or sells. This is what he has created and it's way, way too late for him to learn new tricks.

Right I guess I'm just saying "his way" isn't necessarily enforcing the opposite of, say, an orioles or rays, as much as just not really trying that hard at anything, and definitely not record-breaking spending for any player.

[loidwalden]

I'm guessing he is sincere. He's embarrassed and disappointed like all White Sox fans. Maybe he is not the greatest owner, I don't know but he is human and going to give him the benefit of the doubt.   [Even if he did approve hiring Rick Hahn : )

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not citing Buster Posey like that's a good example that mirrors Chris Getz' ascension. 

I'm not seeing much reaction that calls this a genius move. Aubrey Huff has done a lot of winning, too. 

Judging by very quick reaction online, it seems like Giants fans are excited that Farhan is gone, but a little confused that Posey is taking over, as they should be. Seems like a case where he's got a spot in the ownership group, said he could do a better job, and they just ran with it. 

But to Kyle's point, it's a much easier sell to a fan base when the player/organization has success to point back to. Obviously someone like Posey is beloved in SanFran, he may not be in 5 years, but people tend to look over the inexperience when you've got 3 rings on your hand. 

[bmags]

1 minute ago, loidwalden said:

I'm guessing he is sincere. He's embarrassed and disappointed like all White Sox fans. Maybe he is not the greatest owner, I don't know but he is human and going to give him the benefit of the doubt.   [Even if he did approve hiring Rick Hahn : )

Oh god, "like you I am disappointed" no no, he is nothing like me, he is directly responsible for it. I'm just out here giving them great ideas for free.

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's old. He's old and has been surrounded by yes men his entire life. Nothing will change until he dies or sells. This is what he has created and it's way, way too late for him to learn new tricks.

This is exactly true. He doesn't like guys who aren't yes men. Who don't think he probably is the greatest owner and person on the face of the earth. Any resistance is met with exile. Scottie Pippen, AJ , Larry Himes, benetti....you don't kiss the ring, you're nothing to him.

Edited September 30 by Dick Allen