Greg Hibbard Posted Wednesday at 05:03 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:03 PM No idea how to evaluate this guy as a good or bad asset for the team. The pros: Healthiest player on the roster, remarkably consistent, seems like a good clubhouse guy. The cons: His ceiling apparently equals his floor, not enough power, no speed, 4 years in the majors now - he is what he is. I think he's fine to move forward with because of how bad we are, but he seems like every other White Sox asset - never quite good enough to be elite or even above average, never quite bad enough to be cut or traded. A middling talent. Also, his WAR was 0.2 this season mostly playing 1b/DH. Wins Over Replacement typically means replacing him with whoever comes up from the minors, right? I have hard time believing any player coming up would automatically hit 30 doubles and 19 home runs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted Wednesday at 05:08 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:08 PM Consistently below average Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 05:14 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:14 PM -0.2 fWAR. He is a no hit, no field 1B only. He has no value. 2 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted Wednesday at 05:14 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:14 PM It would hurt if he went elsewhere and something clicks. It also wouldn’t be shocking. I could take him or leave him for a 2025 team that isn’t going anywhere. His price would need to come down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted Wednesday at 05:15 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:15 PM 1 minute ago, flavum said: It would hurt if he went elsewhere and something clicks. It also wouldn’t be shocking. I could take him or leave him for a 2025 team that isn’t going anywhere. His price would need to come down. This just doesn’t bother me anymore. I kind of expect it with most guys who had at least some upside. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted Wednesday at 05:19 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:19 PM 6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: -0.2 fWAR. He is a no hit, no field 1B only. He has no value. 100% this. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted Wednesday at 05:25 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:25 PM If he went to a contender surrounded by better players he’d probably be an .800 OPS guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted Wednesday at 05:30 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:30 PM 4 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: If he went to a contender surrounded by better players he’d probably be an .800 OPS guy. Perhaps, but I wouldn’t put my money on it. And even with an .800 OPS he still wouldn’t be very valuable because his defense sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted Wednesday at 05:34 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:34 PM https://soxmachine.com/2024/10/andrew-vaughn-at-center-of-white-soxs-non-tender-debate/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Wednesday at 05:40 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:40 PM 26 minutes ago, flavum said: It would hurt if he went elsewhere and something clicks. It also wouldn’t be shocking. I could take him or leave him for a 2025 team that isn’t going anywhere. His price would need to come down. That continues to be an indictment of the White Sox, and even if it did happen, there is no promise he would have done the same with the Sox seeing has he hasn't seen anywhere near his earlier potential in 4 full seasons here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry McNertney Posted Wednesday at 05:58 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:58 PM I wouldn't be surprised if Vaughn goes and is replaced by Elko, a lefthanded bat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted Wednesday at 06:12 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:12 PM He sucks. Next question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted Wednesday at 06:17 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:17 PM Vaughn has been basically the same for 3 years. If the choice is him or Sheets, I'd take him, but they both should probably go. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted Wednesday at 06:21 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:21 PM 4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Vaughn has been basically the same for 3 years. If the choice is him or Sheets, I'd take him, but they both should probably go. If the choice for 1B is between Vaughn or Sheets, I take the "fire the GM" option. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted Wednesday at 06:25 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:25 PM (edited) If they're really going to bring in quality hitting instruction, actually give these guys an offseason plan, and make sure they stick to it, then I'm fine keeping Vaughn for one more year. He was a consensus top 5 draft pick that year I believe, so it's worth giving him a real shot with proper help after they epically bungled his growth plan. If they're not going to do these things, and just count on him fixing himself, they might as well let him go. Also if they determine he's just ruined or a bust, then they might as well let him go. Either way, what a disappointment he's been and I don't particularly care if he stays. Edited Wednesday at 06:25 PM by almagest 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEANS Posted Wednesday at 06:30 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 06:30 PM 6 minutes ago, almagest said: If they're really going to bring in quality hitting instruction, actually give these guys an offseason plan, and make sure they stick to it, then I'm fine keeping Vaughn for one more year. He was a consensus top 5 draft pick that year I believe, so it's worth giving him a real shot with proper help after they epically bungled his growth plan. If they're not going to do these things, and just count on him fixing himself, they might as well let him go. Also if they determine he's just ruined or a bust, then they might as well let him go. Either way, what a disappointment he's been and I don't particularly care if he stays. yes, this sums up how I feel too. There are far bigger issues than Vaughn right now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted Wednesday at 06:40 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 06:40 PM 22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Vaughn has been basically the same for 3 years. If the choice is him or Sheets, I'd take him, but they both should probably go. I don't think this is even a choice anymore. Vaughn has proven he's better than Sheets at basically everything except the quality of being Left Handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Wednesday at 07:16 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:16 PM 36 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said: I don't think this is even a choice anymore. Vaughn has proven he's better than Sheets at basically everything except the quality of being Left Handed. They could probably DFA both, and Colas/Elko would give them exactly what Vaughn/Sheets did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted Wednesday at 07:22 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:22 PM Brandon Belt couldn't get a contract after a .860 OPS season. Now imagine paying Andrew Vaughn $6 million dollars. I'd pay him because, why not, there still might be something 'there', compared to Nicky at $5m who is an obvious non-tender. 1b OPS was weird this season. Only 4 (qualified) players players hit above .800. Most are low to mid .700s. Vaughn is obviously at the bottom. Seems to me that the best 'hitters' are also the best athletes, and can play defense reasonably well. Look at Judge and Witt, not superstar defenders by any means, but able to play the premium positions. What's Vaughn's excuse? More generally, what's the point of the position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Wednesday at 07:31 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:31 PM 7 minutes ago, nrockway said: Brandon Belt couldn't get a contract after a .860 OPS season. Now imagine paying Andrew Vaughn $6 million dollars. I'd pay him because, why not, there still might be something 'there', compared to Nicky at $5m who is an obvious non-tender. 1b OPS was weird this season. Only 4 (qualified) players players hit above .800. Most are low to mid .700s. Vaughn is obviously at the bottom. Seems to me that the best 'hitters' are also the best athletes, and can play defense reasonably well. Look at Judge and Witt, not superstar defenders by any means, but able to play the premium positions. What's Vaughn's excuse? More generally, what's the point of the position? I just came back to mention Brandon Belt. Dude sat out all year. His 2023 certainly was better than Josh Bell and Rowdy Tellez. Maybe he's asking for the moon. More realistic is that teams are squelching payrolls in a league effort. If Belt couldn't get paid with what teams were running out there, I doubt Vaughn gets that $6+ million arb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpton Posted Wednesday at 07:34 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:34 PM 2 hours ago, flavum said: It would hurt if he went elsewhere and something clicks. It also wouldn’t be shocking. I could take him or leave him for a 2025 team that isn’t going anywhere. His price would need to come down. How many of the Sox position players who have gone elsewhere have clicked? Very few if any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Wednesday at 07:41 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:41 PM 4 minutes ago, Chimpton said: How many of the Sox position players who have gone elsewhere have clicked? Very few if any. Offseason baseball hitting labs exist. Unless Vaughn was being told to stay away from that "voodoo garbage", he had every opportunity to hit the ground running in a position that was clearly going to be handed to him this season. Coming out of the last weekend in May, he looked like a sure DFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpton Posted Wednesday at 07:52 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 07:52 PM 8 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Offseason baseball hitting labs exist. Unless Vaughn was being told to stay away from that "voodoo garbage", he had every opportunity to hit the ground running in a position that was clearly going to be handed to him this season. Coming out of the last weekend in May, he looked like a sure DFA. Not sure what that has to do with my comment, but I was merely pointing out that few of the Sox busts or players traded out have exactly gone on to reach any great heights at their subsequent teams so keeping them hoping that they will suddenly improve seems like a forlorn hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Wednesday at 08:05 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 08:05 PM 11 minutes ago, Chimpton said: Not sure what that has to do with my comment, but I was merely pointing out that few of the Sox busts or players traded out have exactly gone on to reach any great heights at their subsequent teams so keeping them hoping that they will suddenly improve seems like a forlorn hope. Sorry, my response was more tangential. A guy like Marcus Semien probably would have been a bad 2B who hit some, for us. Fully developed in Oakland. I don't think there's any hope for Vaughn here, right now. I don't think there's any hope for him elsewhere, unless some other team decides to give him a swift kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted Wednesday at 08:06 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 08:06 PM 13 minutes ago, Chimpton said: Not sure what that has to do with my comment, but I was merely pointing out that few of the Sox busts or players traded out have exactly gone on to reach any great heights at their subsequent teams so keeping them hoping that they will suddenly improve seems like a forlorn hope. It's not any great heights by most standards, but Jake Burger's 38 HR and 36 2B in his 190 games since leaving the Sox is something I would certainly like to have had. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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