southsider2k5 Posted October 7 Share Posted October 7 39 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Even then...they desperately need 3-5 fWAR caliber players. McCarthy has always been closer to a fourth outfielder than a star. To dramatically alter the downward trajectory of the franchise. Which is fine for a guy who would be a stretch as a 5th starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomtom Posted October 8 Share Posted October 8 I'm sure the Yankees will show interest in Crochet, but they won't want to give up any of their good prospects. A perfect trade partner for Getz! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 21 hours ago, Tomtom said: I'm sure the Yankees will show interest in Crochet, but they won't want to give up any of their good prospects. A perfect trade partner for Getz! We traded Sale and the crown jewel coming back was Moncada. Ironically Devers was supposedly an option but Moncada was "higher" rated. Sale really wasn't a steal with all his injuries but Moncada was no bargain either. Maybe resign Crochet and we don't have to worry about Anthony being a bust again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 5 minutes ago, SCCWS said: We traded Sale and the crown jewel coming back was Moncada. Ironically Devers was supposedly an option but Moncada was "higher" rated. Sale really wasn't a steal with all his injuries but Moncada was no bargain either. Maybe resign Crochet and we don't have to worry about Anthony being a bust again. How did extending Sale work for the Red Sox? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 (edited) 9 minutes ago, SCCWS said: We traded Sale and the crown jewel coming back was Moncada. Ironically Devers was supposedly an option but Moncada was "higher" rated. Sale really wasn't a steal with all his injuries but Moncada was no bargain either. Maybe resign Crochet and we don't have to worry about Anthony being a bust again. I think the Sox need to capitalize on Crochets breakout. Yes, you could sign him to an extension, but the next couple, maybe several years, maybe even more, will be non competitive. With his history, he is still a ticking time bomb IMO, and if you really don’t need his dominance in the next couple of seasons, it behooves you to trade him while the stock probably can’t be any higher. An extension would be a huge gamble. Put where they are in perspective. They can tie the team record for win improvement from one year to the next and still lose 92 games, and will be drafting higher than they will next summer. Edited October 9 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 https://www.fangraphs.com/players/rafael-devers/17350/stats?position=3B Devers is your classic 4 fWAR player...but his defensive limitations and potential for injury as he ages keep him from being a true all around superstar. More like Manny Lite, or Ortiz Lite. But Betts was the real star that got away and was irreplaceable to the Red Sox lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 9 Share Posted October 9 2 hours ago, Balta1701 said: How did extending Sale work for the Red Sox? It didn't which was my point. Moncada was another disappointment. Why I say resigning Crochet may be a better sign than doing say a trade for Anthony. But, I am not sure if Crochet would be an even trade for Anthony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 The Os System isn't all that great anymore when you consider holliday, mayo and basallo untouchable. Sure getting one of the 3 as a headliner would be great but the Os weakest positions are second, third and first base and those are exactly the positions that their big 3 prospects project to play at (basallo can catch but most see him better Suited at 1B as he isn't a good defender). The Os need holliday at second and urias isn't great at third either so that keeps those two. At first mountcastle isn't bad but after they moved back the left field wall his power doesn't really play there anymore and he is more of a 15-20 homer guy with an ok but not great hit tool. The Os might want more than .270 with 20 homers from the 1b spot. But if anyone out of the 3 would be available it would be basallo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 3 hours ago, Dominikk85 said: The Os System isn't all that great anymore when you consider holliday, mayo and basallo untouchable. Sure getting one of the 3 as a headliner would be great but the Os weakest positions are second, third and first base and those are exactly the positions that their big 3 prospects project to play at (basallo can catch but most see him better Suited at 1B as he isn't a good defender). The Os need holliday at second and urias isn't great at third either so that keeps those two. At first mountcastle isn't bad but after they moved back the left field wall his power doesn't really play there anymore and he is more of a 15-20 homer guy with an ok but not great hit tool. The Os might want more than .270 with 20 homers from the 1b spot. But if anyone out of the 3 would be available it would be basallo. Nobody knows if Mayo can stick at third, and that still leaves Westburg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 On 10/9/2024 at 11:23 AM, SCCWS said: We traded Sale and the crown jewel coming back was Moncada. Ironically Devers was supposedly an option but Moncada was "higher" rated. Sale really wasn't a steal with all his injuries but Moncada was no bargain either. Maybe resign Crochet and we don't have to worry about Anthony being a bust again. I'm going to keep hammering this drum because we've Dombrowski has come out and said what it was. Hahn could get Moncada or Benintendi (the #2 and the #1 prospects) Then Kopech got added to the deal. Devers was asked about as the third piece, but it was too high of an ask, so it was Basabe and Diaz. So you're really between Devers and Kopech. Unless you really wanted Benintendi, I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 On 10/9/2024 at 10:23 AM, SCCWS said: We traded Sale and the crown jewel coming back was Moncada. Ironically Devers was supposedly an option but Moncada was "higher" rated. Sale really wasn't a steal with all his injuries but Moncada was no bargain either. Maybe resign Crochet and we don't have to worry about Anthony being a bust again. Sale wad kind of a steal. Started an All Star game and won a World Series with Boston. Moncada had 1.5 good years and is despised by the fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 57 minutes ago, Quin said: I'm going to keep hammering this drum because we've Dombrowski has come out and said what it was. Hahn could get Moncada or Benintendi (the #2 and the #1 prospects) Then Kopech got added to the deal. Devers was asked about as the third piece, but it was too high of an ask, so it was Basabe and Diaz. So you're really between Devers and Kopech. Unless you really wanted Benintendi, I guess? Actually most MLB draft expectations in 2016 had Moncada as #1, Devers as #2 and Benintendi as 3rd with Kopech as 5 and Basabe 6-8 depending on who did the rating. But I agree that Moncada was #1 and it wasn't that close since Devers was only 19. Unfortunately Devers or Beni was not the 2nd get. It was Kopech at #5 and in fairness maybe Boston wanted a pitcher as the 2nd choice . Dombrowski said Moncada would probably have 15 good years but........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 16 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: Sale wad kind of a steal. Started an All Star game and won a World Series with Boston. Moncada had 1.5 good years and is despised by the fan base. Without hindsight: you do that deal every day of the week - Sale for one of the best pitching and hitting prospects. With hindsight: I would rather have watched Sale dominate another 3 years in a White Sox uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 18 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Actually most MLB draft expectations in 2016 had Moncada as #1, Devers as #2 and Benintendi as 3rd with Kopech as 5 and Basabe 6-8 depending on who did the rating. But I agree that Moncada was #1 and it wasn't that close since Devers was only 19. Unfortunately Devers or Beni was not the 2nd get. It was Kopech at #5 and in fairness maybe Boston wanted a pitcher as the 2nd choice . Dombrowski said Moncada would probably have 15 good years but........................... Sale was traded after the 2016 season and it was pretty consistently Benintendi #1 and Moncada #2 (with an occasional swap) BA: Beni #1, Yoan #2, Devers #18, Kopech #32 Fangraphs: Yoan #1, Beni #2, Kopech #21, Devers #22 MLB: Beni #1, Yoan #2, Kopech #16, Devers #17 BP: Beni #3, Yoan #5, Devers #13, Kopech #36 Baseball Cube: Beni #1, Yoan #2, Devers #18, Kopech #32 Keith Law's are paywalled to this day, but this kind of illustrates the point. Here's Dombrowski explaining what went down. The Sox traded for premium talent. They are just a shitty, shitty organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said: Without hindsight: you do that deal every day of the week - Sale for one of the best pitching and hitting prospects. With hindsight: I would rather have watched Sale dominate another 3 years in a White Sox uniform. With hindsight - had the White Sox not done that deal, counting the money spent on Sale that they couldn't spend elsewhere and the lack of Moncada at 3b (who was a strong contributor on their playoff teams), they have 0 playoff appearances since 2008 today and it is the longest running playoff drought in sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: With hindsight - had the White Sox not done that deal, counting the money spent on Sale that they couldn't spend elsewhere and the lack of Moncada at 3b (who was a strong contributor on their playoff teams), they have 0 playoff appearances since 2008 today and it is the longest running playoff drought in sports. 🤷♂️ Not like they really did anything those 2 seasons (1 barely counts). Edit: actually, with that weak 2020 schedule, they probably still go to the playoffs without the 2020 version of Yoan. Hard to assume but it's not he tore the cover off the ball or anything that year. Edited October 15 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Quin said: Sale was traded after the 2016 season and it was pretty consistently Benintendi #1 and Moncada #2 (with an occasional swap) BA: Beni #1, Yoan #2, Devers #18, Kopech #32 Fangraphs: Yoan #1, Beni #2, Kopech #21, Devers #22 MLB: Beni #1, Yoan #2, Kopech #16, Devers #17 BP: Beni #3, Yoan #5, Devers #13, Kopech #36 Baseball Cube: Beni #1, Yoan #2, Devers #18, Kopech #32 Keith Law's are paywalled to this day, but this kind of illustrates the point. Here's Dombrowski explaining what went down. The Sox traded for premium talent. They are just a shitty, shitty organization. If some magical poster were to visit Soxtalk in 2016 and tell everyone "don't worry - by 2023, the Sox will have both Moncada AND Benintendi locked into long-term contracts on the same team coming off of playoff appearances in 2 of the past 3 seasons," what would the reaction have been? Edited October 15 by JoeC Stupidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 7 minutes ago, JoeC said: If some magical poster were to visit Soxtalk in 2016 and tell everyone "don't worry - by 2022, the Sox will have both Moncada AND Benintendi locked into long-term contracts on the same team coming off of back-to-back playoff appearances," what would the reaction have been? 15 players from the MLB top 100 have played for the Sox. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 Also, good moment to point out that one of Getz's first moves was DFA'ing Honeywell, who turned in a good year for the Dodgers (though he way overperformed his advanced metrics) and is pitching in the postseason for them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said: 🤷♂️ Not like they really did anything those 2 seasons (1 barely counts). Edit: actually, with that weak 2020 schedule, they probably still go to the playoffs without the 2020 version of Yoan. Hard to assume but it's not he tore the cover off the ball or anything that year. But you have to imagine that they need to sign someone to cover 3b in addition to their other needs and this removes their money. So they’re missing Moncada and Grandal, or Moncada and Keuchel, both of whom were important that year. Maybe Hahn pays Sale the $50 million remaining on his contract and as a consequence he doesn’t sign Robert. Maybe they still make it because the difference in teams was big enough, but a lot closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: But you have to imagine that they need to sign someone to cover 3b in addition to their other needs and this removes their money. So they’re missing Moncada and Grandal, or Moncada and Keuchel, both of whom were important that year. Maybe Hahn pays Sale the $50 million remaining on his contract and as a consequence he doesn’t sign Robert. Maybe they still make it because the difference in teams was big enough, but a lot closer. If they don't trade Sale, they probably don't trade Quintana or Eaton. The scope gets wider than just Moncada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 1 hour ago, Quin said: Also, good moment to point out that one of Getz's first moves was DFA'ing Honeywell, who turned in a good year for the Dodgers (though he way overperformed his advanced metrics) and is pitching in the postseason for them. The theme of 2024 was pretty clearly if Chris Getz got a choice between Player A and Player B, which ever player he chose was awful, and the player he let walk away was a serviceable player in another organization 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 On 10/9/2024 at 5:23 PM, SCCWS said: We traded Sale and the crown jewel coming back was Moncada. Ironically Devers was supposedly an option but Moncada was "higher" rated. Sale really wasn't a steal with all his injuries but Moncada was no bargain either. Maybe resign Crochet and we don't have to worry about Anthony being a bust again. I think the sale return was great at the time. Moncada was a risky Player at that point but he was actually good for the sox before covid and injuries. Nobody could have seen that. Not everyone saw him at 1 overall but everyone had him top5. Kopech was a top50 overall prospect at the time and a great second piece. Sale was insanely good and at a great age and contract obviously but getting a consensus top5 prospect, a consensus top50 prospect was quite good. The big issue was that all those trade returns either were injury prone, underperformed or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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