Managerial “Search”

[southsider2k5]

  On 10/11/2024 at 3:55 PM, bmags said:

I think what sucks is because we get a manager search every few years we still hold out hope that we'll find some guy that can perform some bottom-up transformation. But I kinda think even if we had hired AJ Hinch, he's not that good of a manager without executing for a smart front office (see his first years).

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I do think it would be interesting to see if he is able to do something to keep the main players healthy in the 2021/22 range.  I think the rebuild was salvageable at that point if you don't ruin your stars.  Keep the core from destructing, and it is easier to see fan engagement staying up, spending staying up, etc.  It  is a tough counterfactural  to run in 2024 after the worst team in MLB history just finished, but maybe a butterfly flapping his wings instead of a washed up drunk changes the health of guys like TA, Yoan and Eloy, which changes the entire complexion of this franchise.

[Texsox]

  On 10/11/2024 at 1:49 PM, TheBooneLoganEra said:

Really? Because I think Grifol cost a minimum of 20 games this year. I'm not saying this team wasn't awful but he definitely help thrust them towards historically awful. 

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So Getz put together a much better group and it was mismanaged by Pedro resulting in 50% less wins? That's a lot of screwing up by one man that other men couldn't overcome. I hope you are correct. Then the organization is in much better shape than I'm thinking. 

[Ducksnort]

  On 10/11/2024 at 3:23 PM, southsider2k5 said:

They aren't even in the playoffs without starting off 10-1 vs the White Sox.

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But they were one of the best teams (maybe the best?) in baseball in the 2nd half. They made the playoffs because they beat up on other teams too, not just the Sox. KC had the same record against the Sox as Detroit did and they were right ahead of Detroit in the standings so it's not like it matters much. 

[Bob Sacamano]

  On 10/11/2024 at 5:41 PM, ScootsMcGoots said:

But they were one of the best teams (maybe the best?) in baseball in the 2nd half. They made the playoffs because they beat up on other teams too, not just the Sox. KC had the same record against the Sox as Detroit did and they were right ahead of Detroit in the standings so it's not like it matters much. 

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Detroit was 10-3 against Sox right?

Edited October 11, 2024 by Bob Sacamano

[nrockway]

I think Grady provides what we want out of a manager at this particular moment. Who knows about his X's and O's, his bullpen management, his lineups....but who cares. It seems like the players actually want to impress him by playing hard. Grady Sizemore is a respectable name, I imagine a lot of these players can recall watching him play. I suspect with an appropriate supporting staff, he could be a really good manager for this team. Showalter is just another TLR-esque hire. I'm not sure why everyone is impressed by Schumacher except that he likes to be called "Skip" which is a pretty cool name for a manager to have.

[Chimpton]

  On 10/11/2024 at 3:20 PM, southsider2k5 said:

A manager is not getting this team 21 wins.

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In that case why sack Grifol?  A decent manager who nows how to organise a line up, when to go to the bullpen and which reliever to use may have stopped some of those games where they threw away a lead after the 7th inning. And a decent manager who actually inspired some of the players may have stopped some of the veteran players phoning in performances for 90% of the season, and may have got a bit more out of the other less than average players. Maybe I am wrong but certainly in other sports the manager can make a difference, I am not suggesting they would have been competing for postseason but maybe they wouldn't be competing for records of worst seasons.

[southsider2k5]

  On 10/11/2024 at 5:41 PM, ScootsMcGoots said:

But they were one of the best teams (maybe the best?) in baseball in the 2nd half. They made the playoffs because they beat up on other teams too, not just the Sox. KC had the same record against the Sox as Detroit did and they were right ahead of Detroit in the standings so it's not like it matters much. 

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Both teams made the playoffs because they beat the Sox so many times.

[southsider2k5]

  On 10/11/2024 at 6:42 PM, Bob Sacamano said:

Detroit was 10-3 against Sox right?

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They were 10-1 before clinching the playoffs and tanked the last two games.

[wegner]

  On 10/11/2024 at 7:48 PM, southsider2k5 said:

They were 10-1 before clinching the playoffs and tanked the last two games.

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"I like to look at it as the real White Sox showing up...,.,finished the season on a winning streak.....Staaaannndd UP!!!"

 

[Tnetennba]

  On 10/11/2024 at 7:36 PM, Chimpton said:

In that case why sack Grifol?  A decent manager who nows how to organise a line up, when to go to the bullpen and which reliever to use may have stopped some of those games where they threw away a lead after the 7th inning. And a decent manager who actually inspired some of the players may have stopped some of the veteran players phoning in performances for 90% of the season, and may have got a bit more out of the other less than average players. Maybe I am wrong but certainly in other sports the manager can make a difference, I am not suggesting they would have been competing for postseason but maybe they wouldn't be competing for records of worst seasons.

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Someone had to get the axe, and Getz sure wasn't firing himself.

[southsider2k5]

  On 10/11/2024 at 9:26 PM, Tnetennba said:

Someone had to get the axe, and Getz sure wasn't firing himself.

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He fired everyone but his cronies and literally nothing changed.

[Ducksnort]

  On 10/11/2024 at 7:46 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Both teams made the playoffs because they beat the Sox so many times.

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If anything it would have maybe been a closer wild card race if the Sox won a few more games against them. Maybe Seattle gets in. But I don't think it makes that much more of a difference.

[WestEddy]

  On 10/11/2024 at 7:36 PM, Chimpton said:

In that case why sack Grifol?  A decent manager who nows how to organise a line up, when to go to the bullpen and which reliever to use may have stopped some of those games where they threw away a lead after the 7th inning. And a decent manager who actually inspired some of the players may have stopped some of the veteran players phoning in performances for 90% of the season, and may have got a bit more out of the other less than average players. Maybe I am wrong but certainly in other sports the manager can make a difference, I am not suggesting they would have been competing for postseason but maybe they wouldn't be competing for records of worst seasons.

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Managers, generally aren't worth more than a couple "wins" above average. The thing that struck me is that Grifol sucked talking to the press, and explaining his goals, even after a 3-22 start. Be straight, explain what's going on. Don't babble. I'm guessing that mealy mouthed communication happened in the clubhouse, and made it harder for everyone to follow. 

Rookies got into his dog house. I'm not sure what happened to Oscar Colas, but nobody was crowing about how Grifol took them under his wing, and brought their game to a new level. As far as lineups, and all, I'm sure Getz just told him to get certain guys more at-bats, even if it meant batting Miguel Vargas first. If Getz was making requests, and they weren't being followed through, that's a reason to launch him, too. 

This team played a full 7 games under their Pythagorean. So, maybe more than a couple could be on the manager? Not 20. 

[DFAthewave69420]

  On 10/11/2024 at 7:17 PM, nrockway said:

I think Grady provides what we want out of a manager at this particular moment. Who knows about his X's and O's, his bullpen management, his lineups....but who cares. It seems like the players actually want to impress him by playing hard. Grady Sizemore is a respectable name, I imagine a lot of these players can recall watching him play. I suspect with an appropriate supporting staff, he could be a really good manager for this team. Showalter is just another TLR-esque hire. I'm not sure why everyone is impressed by Schumacher except that he likes to be called "Skip" which is a pretty cool name for a manager to have.

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Agreed.  The Sox need a leader in the dugout and someone who has a younger voice.  Whether it is Sizemore as Manager or Bench Coach, it was pretty clear the players and others around the league have respect for him.  The next 2-3 years will be all about development.  Can’t have any more busts of prospects.  

[FloydBannister1983]

  On 10/11/2024 at 1:11 AM, Rey21 said:

Haven’t seen one formed - figured I’d start one.

Heyman reported that Phil Nevin and Will Venable are a couple names on a “long list” of candidates for the job. I’d be ecstatic for Venable but zero shot he comes to Chicago, I’d be pumped for a Skip Shumaker also. Inevitably I think it’ll be an outside hire whom none of us expected. 

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Sizemore played with Cleveland so they can sell that as an outside hire.

[FloydBannister1983]

  On 10/11/2024 at 3:23 PM, southsider2k5 said:

They aren't even in the playoffs without starting off 10-1 vs the White Sox.

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Still got to beat the bad teams.  If Arizona doesn’t lose to the Sox they are in the playoffs.

[FloydBannister1983]

  On 10/11/2024 at 7:17 PM, nrockway said:

I think Grady provides what we want out of a manager at this particular moment. Who knows about his X's and O's, his bullpen management, his lineups....but who cares. It seems like the players actually want to impress him by playing hard. Grady Sizemore is a respectable name, I imagine a lot of these players can recall watching him play. I suspect with an appropriate supporting staff, he could be a really good manager for this team. Showalter is just another TLR-esque hire. I'm not sure why everyone is impressed by Schumacher except that he likes to be called "Skip" which is a pretty cool name for a manager to have.

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I’m not sure any stock should be taken of the opinions of players on the worst team of all time.   A decent team, maybe.  This disaster area, it’s laughable the players would have any input.

[hankchifan]

  On 10/11/2024 at 1:11 AM, Rey21 said:

Haven’t seen one formed - figured I’d start one.

Heyman reported that Phil Nevin and Will Venable are a couple names on a “long list” of candidates for the job. I’d be ecstatic for Venable but zero shot he comes to Chicago, I’d be pumped for a Skip Shumaker also. Inevitably I think it’ll be an outside hire whom none of us expected. 

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  On 10/11/2024 at 3:55 PM, bmags said:

I think what sucks is because we get a manager search every few years we still hold out hope that we'll find some guy that can perform some bottom-up transformation. But I kinda think even if we had hired AJ Hinch, he's not that good of a manager without executing for a smart front office (see his first years).

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I would like to have a proven experienced major league manager.  No more Grifol type coaches.

[Lip Man 1]

  On 10/12/2024 at 3:00 AM, hankchifan said:

 

I would like to have a proven experienced major league manager.  No more Grifol type coaches.

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So would I but...

What proven experienced manager would take this clusterf@#$?

And JR won't pay for premium managerial talent.

You'll get Sizemore and like it! 😆

Edited October 12, 2024 by Lip Man 1

[WestEddy]

  On 10/12/2024 at 1:47 AM, FloydBannister1983 said:

I’m not sure any stock should be taken of the opinions of players on the worst team of all time.   A decent team, maybe.  This disaster area, it’s laughable the players would have any input.

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It's funnier, still, that guys on the internet think their opinions have more weight than actual players on the team. Tell us, Floyd Bannister 1983, how were the training exercises?

 

[WestEddy]

  On 10/12/2024 at 3:00 AM, hankchifan said:

 

I would like to have a proven experienced major league manager.  No more Grifol type coaches.

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I'm strangely intrigued by Buck Showalter. I think he's an A to B type manager. 

[kitekrazy]

  On 10/11/2024 at 4:00 PM, southsider2k5 said:

I do think it would be interesting to see if he is able to do something to keep the main players healthy in the 2021/22 range.  I think the rebuild was salvageable at that point if you don't ruin your stars.  Keep the core from destructing, and it is easier to see fan engagement staying up, spending staying up, etc.  It  is a tough counterfactural  to run in 2024 after the worst team in MLB history just finished, but maybe a butterfly flapping his wings instead of a washed up drunk changes the health of guys like TA, Yoan and Eloy, which changes the entire complexion of this franchise.

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"Oh we'll have none of that", said Reinsdorf.

[kitekrazy]

  On 10/12/2024 at 1:24 AM, DFAthewave69420 said:

Agreed.  The Sox need a leader in the dugout and someone who has a younger voice.  Whether it is Sizemore as Manager or Bench Coach, it was pretty clear the players and others around the league have respect for him.  The next 2-3 years will be all about development.  Can’t have any more busts of prospects.  

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Most useless position in baseball. No one really knows what they except manage when the manager gets ejected. BTW I think the Sox had an asst. bench coach as well. 

[Chimpton]

  On 10/12/2024 at 12:28 AM, WestEddy said:

Managers, generally aren't worth more than a couple "wins" above average. The thing that struck me is that Grifol sucked talking to the press, and explaining his goals, even after a 3-22 start. Be straight, explain what's going on. Don't babble. I'm guessing that mealy mouthed communication happened in the clubhouse, and made it harder for everyone to follow. 

Rookies got into his dog house. I'm not sure what happened to Oscar Colas, but nobody was crowing about how Grifol took them under his wing, and brought their game to a new level. As far as lineups, and all, I'm sure Getz just told him to get certain guys more at-bats, even if it meant batting Miguel Vargas first. If Getz was making requests, and they weren't being followed through, that's a reason to launch him, too. 

This team played a full 7 games under their Pythagorean. So, maybe more than a couple could be on the manager? Not 20. 

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Not trying to argue with you just interested but do managers really make that little difference in baseball? Being from the UK my main sporting knowledge is from football(soccer) and cricket.

In football top managers get paid millions because they do make a big difference in tactics and team selection that can make a big difference, hence underperforming teams often sack the manager mid season in the hope of transforming their season to avoid relegation.

In cricket, the coach probably has less influence to the play on the field and more to do with the team selection. On the field the captain makes all the tactical changes such as who to bowl and when. 

Do the manager/coaches make more difference in American Football or the NBA? Or is the real difference the GM and their ability to construct a team that is capable of performing?

[Chimpton]

  On 10/11/2024 at 9:26 PM, Tnetennba said:

Someone had to get the axe, and Getz sure wasn't firing himself.

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Yes but someone else should be sacking Getz! Although if that same person is picking the replacement it will just be more of the same.