One Obvious Move Completed - Analytics Overhauled

[Balta1701]

58 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

There seems to be a (slow) house cleaning going on, of course Jerry just won’t let Getz fire people so he has to wait for their contracts to expire, but it’s still encouraging. 

Why is it encouraging? We haven’t seen anyone who has replaced these folks, we don’t even know if some of them are being replaced, there could easily be downsizing happening in scouting departments that were already too small. 

This is the 4th analytics overhaul in the White Sox organization in 5 years. I’m sure this overhaul will get it right!

[Quin]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why is it encouraging? We haven’t seen anyone who has replaced these folks, we don’t even know if some of them are being replaced, there could easily be downsizing happening in scouting departments that were already too small. 

This is the 4th analytics overhaul in the White Sox organization in 5 years. I’m sure this overhaul will get it right!

Right? They overhauled the front office and gave us 121 losses.

[almagest]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why is it encouraging? We haven’t seen anyone who has replaced these folks, we don’t even know if some of them are being replaced, there could easily be downsizing happening in scouting departments that were already too small. 

This is the 4th analytics overhaul in the White Sox organization in 5 years. I’m sure this overhaul will get it right!

It's encouraging because of context. We have heard from board insiders and in the big expose about the White Sox that the org was ridiculously, comically siloed. That appears to be changing.

[baseball_gal_aly]

4 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The difference now is, you see, everyone was issued a scientific calculator 

Hahaha you win this thread. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

17 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If the Sox wait until after the World Series to make the announcment ,it'll be McCullough.

Getz has been around the Dodgers way of doing things every spring training in Glendale. He's very high up on the list.

They actually don't have to wait. 

46 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Why is it encouraging? We haven’t seen anyone who has replaced these folks, we don’t even know if some of them are being replaced, there could easily be downsizing happening in scouting departments that were already too small. 

This is the 4th analytics overhaul in the White Sox organization in 5 years. I’m sure this overhaul will get it right!

They haven't revamped the analytics department. They've made hires for a big league coordinator to be a conduit to the staff but that's about it. There are lots of changes going on. Pro scouting, international scouting and research and development among them. It's late and they're behind but it's still encouraging. 

[chitownsportsfan]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

By my count, this is the 4th time the analytics department has been overhauled since COVID.

Whoever the 2019 people were. 
LaRussa brought in Dave Duncan's kid
Dave Duncan's kid was replaced when Grifol was brought in
Overhauled again this year.

Can't get fooled again. Nothing will change until the owner does.

[Rusty]

This is 4d chess by Getz, TLR, and JR.  Field the worst team in league history so…anything looks like an improvement and is “encouraging.”  121 losses?  Don’t worry we’ve “rebranded” the analytics department and are now calling it Research and Development!  Gave away Kopech and Fedde for nothing at the deadline?  Dont worry there will now be “liaisons” to the yet to be named manager!  Owner is trying to extort the taxpayers for $2 billion dollars?  Dont worry we’ve got new leadership for “some of these departments.”  It’s a fucking joke and it will be a joke until Jerry is in the ground.

Edited Thursday at 07:07 PM by Rusty

[Balta1701]

43 minutes ago, almagest said:

It's encouraging because of context. We have heard from board insiders and in the big expose about the White Sox that the org was ridiculously, comically siloed. That appears to be changing.

We also heard from board insiders how one of the big changes that was going to make 2024 successful was that they were putting the "Baseball people back in charge". The first things we heard last year from Getz was about how they needed to bunt more, which is exactly what 80 year old "baseball people" have been doing with the White Sox for years. These moves led to 121 losses.

Are they getting "baseball people" back in charge of the data analyses offices too? Because if so, I have no reason to expect that this will be any better than Shelley Duncan.

[almagest]

11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We also heard from board insiders how one of the big changes that was going to make 2024 successful was that they were putting the "Baseball people back in charge". The first things we heard last year from Getz was about how they needed to bunt more, which is exactly what 80 year old "baseball people" have been doing with the White Sox for years. These moves led to 121 losses.

Are they getting "baseball people" back in charge of the data analyses offices too? Because if so, I have no reason to expect that this will be any better than Shelley Duncan.

No, the totality of terrible moves and internal nonsense of the last 5+ years led to 121 losses. You don't get historically bad without long term historic incompetence.

There is also no universe in which removal of excessive siloing is a bad thing for the future of the organization, and comparing it to a crony hire like Shelly Duncan is just dishonest.

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, almagest said:

No, the totality of terrible moves and internal nonsense of the last 5+ years led to 121 losses. You don't get historically bad without long term historic incompetence.

There is also no universe in which removal of excessive siloing is a bad thing for the future of the organization, and comparing it to a crony hire like Shelly Duncan is just dishonest.

Chris Getz has zero history of hiring guys from the Royals, so obviously he deserves this benefit of the doubt.

[Rusty]

18 minutes ago, almagest said:

No, the totality of terrible moves and internal nonsense of the last 5+ years led to 121 losses. You don't get historically bad without long term historic incompetence.

There is also no universe in which removal of excessive siloing is a bad thing for the future of the organization, and comparing it to a crony hire like Shelly Duncan is just dishonest.

You get historically bad by signing a bunch of guys that can’t hit under the guise of speed and defense and then…you still are among the worst defensive teams in the league and the base running looks like a circus.  Then you sign guys like Mike Clevinger while giving away others at the deadline for near nothing.

Edited Thursday at 07:42 PM by Rusty

[Quin]

33 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We also heard from board insiders how one of the big changes that was going to make 2024 successful was that they were putting the "Baseball people back in charge". The first things we heard last year from Getz was about how they needed to bunt more, which is exactly what 80 year old "baseball people" have been doing with the White Sox for years. These moves led to 121 losses.

Are they getting "baseball people" back in charge of the data analyses offices too? Because if so, I have no reason to expect that this will be any better than Shelley Duncan.

Chris Getz: "I'm going to assemble a good looking defense that will be appealing t pitchers."

Worst defense in the league.

[almagest]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Chris Getz has zero history of hiring guys from the Royals, so obviously he deserves this benefit of the doubt.

What does that have to do with removing internal silos?

[almagest]

2 minutes ago, Rusty said:

You get historically bad by signing a bunch of guys that can’t hit under the guise of speed and defense and then…you still are among the worst defensive teams in the league and the base running looks like a circus.  Then you sign guys like Mike Clevinger while giving away others at the deadline for near nothing.

There was a lot more to this team's failure, and you know it. They didn't lose 121 games because the marginal players they signed this offseason performed like marginal players.

[Quin]

2 minutes ago, Rusty said:

You get historically bad by signing a bunch of guys that can’t hit under the guise of speed and defense and then…you still are among the worst defensive teams in the league and the base running looks like a circus.  Then you sign guys like Mike Clevinger while giving away others at the deadline for near nothing.

Tommy Edman may be 29 and doesn't have years of control left, but he's the exact type of player Getz has been chirping about acquiring.

Instead he got a guy who can't hit or defend.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, almagest said:

What does that have to do with removing internal silos?

You literally said Comparing any change to a "Crony Hire" was unfair.

Chris Getz has been loading up on the crony hires, and he himself was a crony hire!!!

[almagest]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You literally said Comparing any change to a "Crony Hire" was unfair.

Chris Getz has been loading up on the crony hires, and he himself was a crony hire!!!

No, I said comparing organizational silo removal to a crony hire was unfair. Not any change. If you want to say you don't trust Getz because he's a crony hire in an organization full of under-performing crony hires I would agree with you.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, almagest said:

No, I said comparing organizational silo removal to a crony hire was unfair. Not any change. If you want to say you don't trust Getz because he's a crony hire in an organization full of under-performing crony hires I would agree with you.

We have no reason to assume that this one will be a silo removal when the last 3 managed to not be. We have no reason to assume that this will be anything other than a crony hire when Getz has made a bunch of them so far.

[almagest]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

We have no reason to assume that this one will be a silo removal when the last 3 managed to not be.

Yes we do. It's in the article Texsox posted. We also have confirmation from two board insiders that this is what they're doing. We didn't have that any other time.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, almagest said:

Yes we do. It's in the article Texsox posted. We also have confirmation from two board insiders that this is what they're doing. We didn't have that any other time.

The board insiders who told us about the great plan to make sure the baseball people were back in charge. Joy.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, almagest said:

Yes we do. It's in the article Texsox posted. We also have confirmation from two board insiders that this is what they're doing. We didn't have that any other time.

No it is what their leakers are saying, but we don't know what they are actually doing.  We will know if they really did once they actually do some hirings.  If they bring in someone like Skip Shumaker, the question is answered, as if they go another route.

[almagest]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

No it is what their leakers are saying, but we don't know what they are actually doing.  We will know if they really did once they actually do some hirings.  If they bring in someone like Skip Shumaker, the question is answered, as if they go another route.

Hiring additional people would be great, but even just allowing them to talk to other departments is a big step in the right direction. I also can't believe I had to type out a sentence about "letting employees talk to each other".

[chitownsportsfan]

Congrats on bringing the org into a 21st century chart. That means absolutely jack squat. That's like saying the pilot fixed the problem with the landing gear when the plane is about to crash at 500mph into the pacific ocean.

Just to expand on this there are numerous necessary conditions to field a good team, they are, in no real order:

1) good scouting

2) good drafting

3) good FA signings

4) good coaching, MLB and MILB

Now, analytics and inter org communication are probably necessary for those things, but they are certainly not sufficient. The single most important position is to install a GM who hires and runs a great org. There isn't a single data point we have in the last 10 years that JR is capable of doing that.

Edited Thursday at 08:29 PM by chitownsportsfan

[Balta1701]

42 minutes ago, almagest said:

Hiring additional people would be great, but even just allowing them to talk to other departments is a big step in the right direction. I also can't believe I had to type out a sentence about "letting employees talk to each other".

But how you arrange this also matters. One of the reasons why the "analytics" side was walled off in the previous ones is that LaRussa and Grifol and Getz wanted more bunting and more veteran leadership and they made sure that was the message that was brought to them. If the "analytics" people are ones brought in like Getz who want more bunting and more battered women, then the more people they talk to, the worse things are.

[WestEddy]

55 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

We have no reason to assume that this one will be a silo removal when the last 3 managed to not be. We have no reason to assume that this will be anything other than a crony hire when Getz has made a bunch of them so far.

I would imagine that very few FO hires in MLB are people nobody knows. It's a fun parlor game to pretend that every person Getz hires is bad because they're a "crony" hire, I guess. 

Edited Thursday at 08:45 PM by WestEddy