One Obvious Move Completed - Analytics Overhauled

[chitownsportsfan]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I would imagine that very few FO hires in MLB are people nobody knows. It's a fun parlor game to pretend that every person Getz hires is bad because they're a "crony" hire, I guess. 

I think it's because Chris Getz was a bad deputy, was hired because apparently it was a "shortcut" to the next good Sox team and that his stated goal of a better pitching and defense led team led to a league worst defense, an absolutely awful staff outside Crochet, and oh yea 121 losses.

If that guy was named billy bean or dombrowski he'd be getting questioned. But when you are Chris Getz, with his track record? Any real org would have never hired him in the first place!

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's because Chris Getz was a bad deputy, was hired because apparently it was a "shortcut" to the next good Sox team and that his stated goal of a better pitching and defense led team led to a league worst defense, an absolutely awful staff outside Crochet, and oh yea 121 losses.

If that guy was named billy bean or dombrowski he'd be getting questioned. But when you are Chris Getz, with his track record? Any real org would have never hired him in the first place!

I'll agree with you that Getz was a lazy hire on Reinsdorf's part. I also don't disagree that if Beane or Dombrowski were the GM of this mess, everyone would be making the same, disingenuous arguments. 

[Quin]

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I think it's because Chris Getz was a bad deputy, was hired because apparently it was a "shortcut" to the next good Sox team and that his stated goal of a better pitching and defense led team led to a league worst defense, an absolutely awful staff outside Crochet, and oh yea 121 losses.

If that guy was named billy bean or dombrowski he'd be getting questioned. But when you are Chris Getz, with his track record? Any real org would have never hired him in the first place!

It really does come down to: When you're bad at your job and your friends that you hire are also bad at their jobs, they're crony hires.

If Getz were experienced in anyway other than baseball man/ass-kissing and he and his hires didn't create the worst team in MLB history, it'd get papered over. But right now the chief qualification on their resume seems to be "friend with Getz."

[Rusty]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But how you arrange this also matters. One of the reasons why the "analytics" side was walled off in the previous ones is that LaRussa and Grifol and Getz wanted more bunting and more veteran leadership and they made sure that was the message that was brought to them. If the "analytics" people are ones brought in like Getz who want more bunting and more battered women, then the more people they talk to, the worse things are.

This is actually a good point.  Most people will not dispute the value of analytics….however, one of the biggest things I learned during my MBA is that you can pretty easily skew data to support your pre-conceived position.  I can easily cherry pick numbers that my boss wants to make the shareholder meeting presentation look like everything is sunshine, cotton candy, and unicorns.  If the new “research and development” department feels pressure from above, and they absolutely will in an organization with Jerry and TLR, they’re just going to twist the numbers to support the way the bosses opinions.  Just think you’re a junior analyst with the White Sox.  Do you think you want to take an objective looks at the data and walk into an office or prepare a report that essentially says bunting is dumb.  Or…do you want to filter out the data so you can make the data say bunting is awesome and probably get a promotion?  I know what I’d do…

[almagest]

20 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But how you arrange this also matters. One of the reasons why the "analytics" side was walled off in the previous ones is that LaRussa and Grifol and Getz wanted more bunting and more veteran leadership and they made sure that was the message that was brought to them. If the "analytics" people are ones brought in like Getz who want more bunting and more battered women, then the more people they talk to, the worse things are.

You doubt people who have connections on this board, then you pull out a fever dream like this.

[caulfield12]

What does our new Marine Corps guy have to say about all of this???

He's the director of leadership, culture and continuing education. This isn't a position that needs prior baseball experience at all.

Edited Thursday at 09:34 PM by caulfield12

[baseball_gal_aly]

Why do we even care anymore? It just feels like the rest of Jerry's tenure is hopeless and the team will be playing somewhere else in 2030. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

I'll agree with you that Getz was a lazy hire on Reinsdorf's part. I also don't disagree that if Beane or Dombrowski were the GM of this mess, everyone would be making the same, disingenuous arguments. 

You are 100% wrong here.  If Jerry had brought in a real GM with a reputation and history worth believing in and let them do their damned jobs, they would have YEARS of good will just for the simple fact that something was actually changing.  But when step one of this rebuild is nepo-baby Chris Getz, there is no reason to believe the octogenarian inmates are not still running the asylum. 

[FT35]

They’re so slow to the analytics game, something new will come along before they get good at it. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, almagest said:

You doubt people who have connections on this board, then you pull out a fever dream like this.

I doubt people who automatically praise Chris Getz for all of his decisions, which is exactly what we're seeing here and which is exactly what we heard about Hahn.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They actually don't have to wait. 

They haven't revamped the analytics department. They've made hires for a big league coordinator to be a conduit to the staff but that's about it. There are lots of changes going on. Pro scouting, international scouting and research and development among them. It's late and they're behind but it's still encouraging. 

They don't have to wait but I think they will.

I wonder if Getz is avoiding using  terms like analytics much like he avoided using rebuild. JR might still be allergic to those words. Maybe he's running covert ops .

After all he did hire the ex Navy Seal who seems to be an important cog in the reinvention of the Sox wheel. Things are moving forward.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-white-sox/white-sox-launch-front-office-overhaul-as-getz-looks-to-correct-years-of-missteps/

Edited Thursday at 11:21 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Falstaff]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

What does our new Marine Corps guy have to say about all of this???

 

I don't know, but I've been told
Jerry Reinsdorf gotta go

Boom-shaka-laka-laka Boom-shaka-laka-laka Boom-shaka-laka-laka 

 

 

[WestEddy]

53 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I doubt people who automatically praise Chris Getz for all of his decisions, which is exactly what we're seeing here and which is exactly what we heard about Hahn.

"It's a bit early to call this move a failure" is not automatically praising Chris Getz. The fact that people interpret anything short of jumping on the dour wagon in full agreement as carrying water, or praising Getz is just weird. 

[caulfield12]

56 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I doubt people who automatically praise Chris Getz for all of his decisions, which is exactly what we're seeing here and which is exactly what we heard about Hahn.

Well, the only argument here left is gate keepers KW Getz Barfield and eventually Beckham played the sport professionally...compared to Hahn and Haber as ivory tower sons of privilege who have run off into hiding with their tails between their legs.

Edited Thursday at 11:33 PM by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

14 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

"It's a bit early to call this move a failure" is not automatically praising Chris Getz. The fact that people interpret anything short of jumping on the dour wagon in full agreement as carrying water, or praising Getz is just weird. 

What I said originally was that it is too early to call this encouraging, and I stand by that to the letter. We have no idea how any of this will used by the organization, we don’t know who is being brought in, we don’t know how they will mesh with the coaching staff. We heard literally that when Shelley Duncan was removed, and it was garbage.

What we do know is that already Chris Getz has a horrible record of decisions and leadership, and doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt that this time things have been done correctly until some results are actually positive. If you tell me “wait and see”, fine, but I get to point out that we heard that for a decade, and that Getz’s first set of moves wound up with 121 losses. This wasn’t “ok let’s see if it works” it was “good work Getz this is encouraging”. 

[almagest]

44 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I doubt people who automatically praise Chris Getz for all of his decisions, which is exactly what we're seeing here and which is exactly what we heard about Hahn.

Harold I’ll give you. Jimmy doesn’t praise Getz. 

 

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, almagest said:

Harold I’ll give you. Jimmy doesn’t praise Getz. 

 

On paper, almost all of the Hahn moves at least MADE SENSE...you could at least understand the thinking behind them.

Of course, he had Sale Quintana Eaton and Frazier/Robertson/Kahnle to trade off, two of them with friendly team-controlled contracts.

And higher draft picks as well, compared to #10.

 

What is the current value of Crochet and Robert right now compared to those four aforementioned trade packages above?

1/3rd? 

 

And then you have the fact that Minnesota, Cleveland, KC and Detroit are all currently better positioned than the Sox...maybe Minnesota will have to rebuild until/unless they get new ownership in the face of competition from those other three AL Central teams.

And then you have a situation where the White Sox might end up producing the LEAST amount of money compared to even small markets like CLE and KC for their broadcasting rights.

[Y2Jimmy0]

 

4 hours ago, Quin said:

Tommy Edman may be 29 and doesn't have years of control left, but he's the exact type of player Getz has been chirping about acquiring.

Instead he got a guy who can't hit or defend.

The White Sox would've been eviscerated for acquiring Tommy Edman. 

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

We have no reason to assume that this one will be a silo removal when the last 3 managed to not be. We have no reason to assume that this will be anything other than a crony hire when Getz has made a bunch of them so far.

I'm sorry but this is horseshit. Chriz Getz is definitely not the hire I would've made but he's operated very similarly to how an outside hire would operate under this ownership. There are lots of new faces and they aren't all "idiot buddies from Kansas City". Josh Barfield, Brian Bannister and David Keller all come from pretty well run orgs. Now it's all about what they do though and developing players but it's ignorant and lazy to just assume that all these hires are bad. Who are the crony hires? I need to know so I don't get confused next time. 

 

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

No it is what their leakers are saying, but we don't know what they are actually doing.  We will know if they really did once they actually do some hirings.  If they bring in someone like Skip Shumaker, the question is answered, as if they go another route.

"Leakers" lol. That's cute. 

12 minutes ago, almagest said:

Harold I’ll give you. Jimmy doesn’t praise Getz. 

 

I try to be as honest and transparent as possible. I wouldn't have hired him. I don't believe it's destined to fail though. If I did, I'd stop paying attention and I definitely wouldn't be wasting my time on a White Sox message board. 

[WestEddy]

28 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What we do know is that already Chris Getz has a horrible record of decisions and leadership, and doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt that this time things have been done correctly until some results are actually positive. If you tell me “wait and see”, fine, but I get to point out that we heard that for a decade, and that Getz’s first set of moves wound up with 121 losses. This wasn’t “ok let’s see if it works” it was “good work Getz this is encouraging”.

No, we don't know that. He put together a bad team on the fly. Is the Bannister hire a horrible decision? 

Multiple people have made the point that they're mad at how Getz was hired, so they're going to be especially impatient with every single move. That's fine. I'm not going to agree with the same nonsense everybody has decided to yell because they're mad. 

[hi8is]

7 hours ago, 46DidIt said:

Maybe they looked at your internet posting history

If they were they would have provided a job offer already. 😆 18,000 or whatever posts shows loyalty and we know who loves loyalty. 😆

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

No, we don't know that. He put together a bad team on the fly. Is the Bannister hire a horrible decision? 

Multiple people have made the point that they're mad at how Getz was hired, so they're going to be especially impatient with every single move. That's fine. I'm not going to agree with the same nonsense everybody has decided to yell because they're mad. 

What we saw this year was Getz retaining Grifol, failing to take steps that he may now be taking in terms of staff turnover, running with an expensive plan of overpaying for grindy veterans, getting his pants pulled down by one of his pitchers who he said he thought he had a good relationship with just prior to the trade deadline, and making frankly bizarre trades to boot. In June I saw one of Houston’s radio people on a Twitter thread saying that everyone involved in the Maldonado contract should have been fired because of how obviously washed up he was last year, the standard radio personalities in Houston understood million dollar decisions better than Chris Getz. Throw in multiple trades that appear to be major setbacks for the organization already, and yes Chris Getz has a horrible record of leadership top to bottom. 

And you’ll note how easy this was to write without mentioning the Clevinger signing which was still by far his worst move. None of this mentions how he was hired, he did a garbage job this year and this is the same sort of whitewashing we saw for a decade with Hahn. Oh I’m sure he will get it right this time, he learned his lessons from, I guess the Vargas trade? From what we heard from the insiders that was recommended by a guy fired a week later, and that doesn’t seem at all like a reasonable decision making process to me.

[southsider2k5]

28 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

No, we don't know that. He put together a bad team on the fly. Is the Bannister hire a horrible decision? 

Multiple people have made the point that they're mad at how Getz was hired, so they're going to be especially impatient with every single move. That's fine. I'm not going to agree with the same nonsense everybody has decided to yell because they're mad. 

If only we had the worst season in baseball history to baseball the anger on, and not some made up fantasy world where we could all pretend not to notice anything bad 

[southsider2k5]

12 minutes ago, hi8is said:

If they were they would have provided a job offer already. 😆 18,000 or whatever posts shows loyalty and we know who loves loyalty. 😆

Well the Sox have been hiring poop, so it would fit.

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What we saw this year was Getz retaining Grifol, failing to take steps that he may now be taking in terms of staff turnover, running with an expensive plan of overpaying for grindy veterans, and making frankly bizarre trades to boot. In June I saw one of Houston’s radio people on a Twitter thread saying that everyone involved in the Maldonado contract should have been fired because of how obviously washed up he was last year, the standard radio personalities in Houston understood million dollar decisions better than Chris Getz. Throw in multiple trades that appear to be major setbacks for the organization already, and yes Chris Getz has a horrible record of leadership top to bottom. 

And you’ll note how easy this was to write without mentioning the Clevinger signing which was still by far his worst move. None of this mentions how he was hired, he did a garbage job this year and this is the same sort of whitewashing we saw for a decade with Hahn. Oh I’m sure he will get it right this time, he learned his lessons from, I guess the Vargas trade? From what we heard from the insiders that was recommended by a guy fired a week later, and that doesn’t seem at all like a reasonable decision making process to me.

I suppose it's fun to pretend that Getz set his own budget, and demanded Grifol not be fired. Hell, many here even think he ran the entire organization as the Director of Player Development. 

What we're seeing is Getz finally being able to clean house after people's contracts ran out, and the disgruntled, here, are desperately trying to reframe that as a bad thing, or as "praising" Chris Getz. 

[southsider2k5]

42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What we saw this year was Getz retaining Grifol, failing to take steps that he may now be taking in terms of staff turnover, running with an expensive plan of overpaying for grindy veterans, getting his pants pulled down by one of his pitchers who he said he thought he had a good relationship with just prior to the trade deadline, and making frankly bizarre trades to boot. In June I saw one of Houston’s radio people on a Twitter thread saying that everyone involved in the Maldonado contract should have been fired because of how obviously washed up he was last year, the standard radio personalities in Houston understood million dollar decisions better than Chris Getz. Throw in multiple trades that appear to be major setbacks for the organization already, and yes Chris Getz has a horrible record of leadership top to bottom. 

And you’ll note how easy this was to write without mentioning the Clevinger signing which was still by far his worst move. None of this mentions how he was hired, he did a garbage job this year and this is the same sort of whitewashing we saw for a decade with Hahn. Oh I’m sure he will get it right this time, he learned his lessons from, I guess the Vargas trade? From what we heard from the insiders that was recommended by a guy fired a week later, and that doesn’t seem at all like a reasonable decision making process to me.