One Obvious Move Completed - Analytics Overhauled

[hi8is]

11 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

You're likely more qualified than the guy they had in there before.  

Exactly… so is my shoe.

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Well the Sox have been hiring poop, so it would fit.

Yuck yuck yuck

[hi8is]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Well the Sox have been hiring poop, so it would fit.

Corny poop.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

What we saw this year was Getz retaining Grifol, failing to take steps that he may now be taking in terms of staff turnover, running with an expensive plan of overpaying for grindy veterans, getting his pants pulled down by one of his pitchers who he said he thought he had a good relationship with just prior to the trade deadline, and making frankly bizarre trades to boot. In June I saw one of Houston’s radio people on a Twitter thread saying that everyone involved in the Maldonado contract should have been fired because of how obviously washed up he was last year, the standard radio personalities in Houston understood million dollar decisions better than Chris Getz. Throw in multiple trades that appear to be major setbacks for the organization already, and yes Chris Getz has a horrible record of leadership top to bottom. 

And you’ll note how easy this was to write without mentioning the Clevinger signing which was still by far his worst move. None of this mentions how he was hired, he did a garbage job this year and this is the same sort of whitewashing we saw for a decade with Hahn. Oh I’m sure he will get it right this time, he learned his lessons from, I guess the Vargas trade? From what we heard from the insiders that was recommended by a guy fired a week later, and that doesn’t seem at all like a reasonable decision making process to me.

Beyond Vargas, they should also be studying the Burger/Eder trade, Santos to SEA, Fletcher instead of McCarthy and the process behind each one of these heretofore "bad" trades...trying to ascertain exactly where things went wrong in the evaluations.

For example, Fletcher had more years of control and wasn't in ARB yet, was that the main factor...but why identify players already in their mid 20's when they will be well past their prime years of production when the team is next competitive again?

 

Not trading with any other Central teams other than KC?

How in God's name was that logical/reasonable...when the Sox won't be a factor in the division until at least 2027, and that's at the earliest, the way things are looking right now (barring another Skenes being available 1-1 in the 2026 draft)?

 

And why bring back CLEVINGER when the entire goal the last two years was ridding the team of "bad influences/bad clubhouse/chemistry guys"?????

[46DidIt]

2 hours ago, hi8is said:

If they were they would have provided a job offer already. 😆 18,000 or whatever posts shows loyalty and we know who loves loyalty. 😆

Just saying, I hear JR has no truck with poop talk

[hi8is]

4 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Just saying, I hear JR has no truck with poop talk

You are not funny, Sam I Am.

[46DidIt]

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

You are not funny, Sam I Am.

How would you know

[Texsox]

TL:DR We're against the moves and it's just a waste of time and really doesn't do anything. 

[WhiteSox2023]

20 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The difference now is, you see, everyone was issued a scientific calculator 

You just know that they are using the older TI-82’s instead of the newer TI-84’s because Jerry got a deal on them, but they are mainly using them to play Tetris anyways.

Edited yesterday at 10:33 AM by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

10 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

The White Sox would've been eviscerated for acquiring Tommy Edman.

No evisceration for Getz.  He managed to acquire a much worse player than Edman with the added benefit of 5 years of control for said terrible player.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Nothing Jimmy loves doing more than telling you how the current guys in charge is competent and doing everything they can. All their failures are the owners fault. 

Celebrating Chris Getz, the guy who set the MLB record for incompetence, tearing down and rebuilding another department is hilarious. The only person more incompetent than Rick Hahn is Chris Getz.

Edited yesterday at 11:48 AM by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

12 hours ago, WestEddy said:

"It's a bit early to call this move a failure" is not automatically praising Chris Getz. The fact that people interpret anything short of jumping on the dour wagon in full agreement as carrying water, or praising Getz is just weird. 

Chris Getz has no foundation in analytics, nor does anyone in that building,

 

10 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I suppose it's fun to pretend that Getz set his own budget, and demanded Grifol not be fired. Hell, many here even think he ran the entire organization as the Director of Player Development. 

What we're seeing is Getz finally being able to clean house after people's contracts ran out, and the disgruntled, here, are desperately trying to reframe that as a bad thing, or as "praising" Chris Getz. 

Yes, it's a bad thing that an unqualified, incompetent dope is overhauling the entire organization. 

The hilarious thing is how people sing someone like Josh Barfields praises. What has Josh Barfield done? That's the big Getz victory?

Bannister is the one good move Getz made. He's made about 100. He has no foundation in analytics, nor does anyone in that building, but he's overhauling the department? 

I'll also be the first to admit if I like the hire, but my expectation is that it won't be any better than the current iteration. Heck the current one might be less horrendous than I thought if Harold hates it. He's never seen a regression model that didn't make his head spin.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

17 hours ago, almagest said:

It's encouraging because of context. We have heard from board insiders and in the big expose about the White Sox that the org was ridiculously, comically siloed. That appears to be changing.

Those same insiders told us these exact same things when the Sox started their first rebuild.

"Hahn is finally in charge making all the moves we need as an organization."

Five years later they told us nothing was done and it was all Jerry's fault lol.

[Balta1701]

59 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

 

The hilarious thing is how people sing someone like Josh Barfields praises. What has Josh Barfield done? That's the big Getz victory?

The guys the White Sox hired are great, Getz trust them implicitly and they provide him with important feedback.

Also, the guys Getz brought in didn’t contribute anything to the decisions made about players or trades in 2024. Chris Getz is in charge and doesn’t listen to subordinates so you can’t blame them. 

Im the one who started adding the TM symbol to the phrase “Rick Hahn’s decisions aren’t Rick Hahn’s fault”, so yeah this feels way too familiar. The buck always stops with someone else.

Im genuinely surprised that the Getz fanboys haven’t yet gone with “Getz was just giving Reinsdorf the players he wanted as part of a secret plan to prove to Reinsdorf that it wouldn’t work so that he can build the team his way”. Getz’s moves were so precisely what Reinsdorf asked for last fall that it’s sitting right there, I’d almost believe it if someone claimed it. It’s hard to see how anyone could look at Maldonado in 2023 and give him $4.5 million if it wasn’t an evil plan to sabotage a roster, he was that bad and it took so little work to see it.

[Snopek]

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

TL:DR We're against the moves and it's just a waste of time and really doesn't do anything. 

Serious question for those who strongly believe this: Short of JR being removed from the picture, exactly what kind of moves are you hoping to see that won’t be met with layers upon layers of snark?

I completely understand not instantly celebrating the moves or giving the org the benefit of the doubt, because they don’t deserve either, but what it is a realistic move in your eyes that wouldn’t warrant an instant roll of the eyes and dismissal of said move?

[Iwritecode]

12 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If only we had the worst season in baseball history to baseball the anger on, and not some made up fantasy world where we could all pretend not to notice anything bad 

I know that sentence is supposed to be "the worst season in baseball history to base the anger on" but I just have to say it's funnier as written. 🤣

Edited yesterday at 01:02 PM by Iwritecode

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Serious question for those who strongly believe this: Short of JR being removed from the picture, exactly what kind of moves are you hoping to see that won’t be met with layers upon layers of snark?

I completely understand not instantly celebrating the moves or giving the org the benefit of the doubt, because they don’t deserve either, but what it is a realistic move in your eyes that wouldn’t warrant an instant roll of the eyes and dismissal of said move?

1. A couple people are instantly celebrating and giving the benefit of the doubt already. 

2. They are coming off a 121 loss season, full of moves that seemed awful at the time and worse the longer they look. They are constantly threatening to move the team. Want non snarky responses? Make better moves that can be seen, don’t expect undue praise for shuffling people around behind the scenes until you prove you can do it.

Want a non snarky response? This team has minimal salary constraints for years and are in a huge market. They have no stars and desperately need a professional hitter. The last big offensive free agents signed 5 years ago have revamped their organizations into perennial contenders with packed ballparks and have totally been worth the money. Go sign Juan Soto and I promise zero snark, I will be totally impressed.

[Snopek]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

1. A couple people are instantly celebrating and giving the benefit of the doubt already. 

2. They are coming off a 121 loss season, full of moves that seemed awful at the time and worse the longer they look. They are constantly threatening to move the team. Want non snarky responses? Make better moves that can be seen, don’t expect undue praise for shuffling people around behind the scenes until you prove you can do it.

Want a non snarky response? This team has minimal salary constraints for years and are in a huge market. They have no stars and desperately need a professional hitter. The last big offensive free agents signed 5 years ago have revamped their organizations into perennial contenders with packed ballparks and have totally been worth the money. Go sign Juan Soto and I promise zero snark, I will be totally impressed.

So, nothing?

(Signing Soto is not a realistic move)

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

So, nothing?

(Signing Soto is not a realistic move)

It’s not realistic because of Reinsdorf. Not because it’s a bad move! 

If you don’t want snarky responses after…(checks notes)…THE MOST LOSSES IN A SINGLE SEASON IN MLB HISTORY, you should take pretty big measures to improve. You can’t live on “trust us we will do fine”.

[Snopek]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It’s not realistic because of Reinsdorf. Not because it’s a bad move!

Hey we agree! 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If you don’t want snarky responses after…(checks notes)…THE MOST LOSSES IN A SINGLE SEASON IN MLB HISTORY, you should take pretty big measures to improve. You can’t live on “trust us we will do fine”.

There’s a huge swath of middle ground between the two extremes of 1) instantly praising or trusting moves they make and 2) being proactively angry about any and every move.

I’m just wondering what big measures you’re realistically hoping to see this offseason.

[bmags]

I would say it's not that odd to wall off analytics from some departments like scouting. Astros did that to prevent the analytics from getting biased. Of course, it had a purpose so that's different than the sox.

[bmags]

2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Chris Getz has no foundation in analytics, nor does anyone in that building,

 

Yes, it's a bad thing that an unqualified, incompetent dope is overhauling the entire organization. 

The hilarious thing is how people sing someone like Josh Barfields praises. What has Josh Barfield done? That's the big Getz victory?

Bannister is the one good move Getz made. He's made about 100. He has no foundation in analytics, nor does anyone in that building, but he's overhauling the department? 

I'll also be the first to admit if I like the hire, but my expectation is that it won't be any better than the current iteration. Heck the current one might be less horrendous than I thought if Harold hates it. He's never seen a regression model that didn't make his head spin.

I'm not totally sold on Bannister. I don't think he's bad, I just don't know that he actually is better than what half the other organizations may already have.

I can't tell if what happened in the minors was more just the large addition of pitching prospects we acquired vs him doing specifically better than any other pitching coordinator or status quo.

The downside is just shock at how bad the bullpen was, and, I'm assuming, making decisions on who to cut bait with in apr/may that ended up being solid relievers vs. our trash.

[Balta1701]

39 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Hey we agree! 

There’s a huge swath of middle ground between the two extremes of 1) instantly praising or trusting moves they make and 2) being proactively angry about any and every move.

I’m just wondering what big measures you’re realistically hoping to see this offseason.

Realistically hoping to see big measures this offseason? None, because they're not well run enough to make a strong play to get better.

Would tolerate? Either get a strong return for Crochet early in the offseason (winter meetings time) or shut up and let someone else come to you because you're willing to hold the player if a strong offer doesn't appear. Don't play the "leak to our sycophants to generate a market" game the whole offseason before taking a weak offer, be willing to wait to the trade deadline if a market doesn't appear.

There's nothing they're going to do to dramatically change this team's direction without spending money, and like the owner in Major League they're not going to spend money that could threaten their ability to move the team. Fine, fair enough, if they're doing work to improve it will show up in a few years...but DON'T COME AND BRAG TO ME ABOUT THE POSITIVE WORK THEY'RE DOING RIGHT NOW AND THE GREAT PEOPLE THEY BROUGHT IN LAST YEAR WHEN THEY JUST LOST 121 GAMES WITH THOSE PEOPLE AROUND. This thread includes that.

I am told I am supposed to have confidence in Getz because of Barfield, for example and Barfield...was around for 2024 and couldn't tell him "Hey maybe that Maldonado deal, don't do that one, and maybe we should look into Vargas a little more than just listening to a guy in the middle of our coaching staff. People are trying to take victory laps based on an overhaul of the analytics group. This is the 4th one in 5 years!

[Y2Jimmy0]

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

No evisceration for Getz.  He managed to acquire a much worse player than Edman with the added benefit of 5 years of control for said terrible player.

Plus two high upside teenagers, yes. 

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Plus two high upside teenagers, yes. 

One of whom was on the IL already.